Trump Uses the K-word, Includes Bajwa in Talks with Imran

pankaj nema

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
10,262
Likes
38,582
Country flag
Balakot, IMF loans and FATF happened.... maybe all these events happened just for this meeting to take place, who knows!!!!
The Pakis must be believing that USA is
Providing the Coordinates to India for
Accurate Targetting , hence we were able to Carry out Random and Surprise attacks
Post Feb 27
 

ssg_slayer

Director at Search & Troll Wing - STW
Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2019
Messages
351
Likes
988
Tussle between US and Pakistan is ought to happen now because of Afghanistan. The funds if given to Pakistan will be used in Kashmir and once again US will be left lied. And I am sure this time Pakistan is going to increase it's debt from 30000 crore to 60000 crore.

Doom's day coming for Pakistan because Trump doesn't trust Pakistan he already told in his briefing.
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
32,247
Likes
149,592
Country flag
The Pakis must be believing that USA is
Providing the Coordinates to India for
Accurate Targetting , hence we were able to Carry out Random and Surprise attacks
Post Feb 27
even if they are yet to realise this, it is our duty to inform pakis about this betrayal. U.S is providing co-ordinates to india so that niazi seeks america's help on IMF and FATF.
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
Trump is no fool & this is why he deliberately lied about Modi’s Kashmir request

India brought this upon itself. In the end, Modi may very well end up becoming a victim of his own successful marketing campaign.

With bated breath we await sunrise in Washington DC to see what President Donald Trump will do next. Will he double down on his claim that Prime Minister Narendra Modi asked him to mediate on Kashmir? Will he be enraged that the Ministry of External Affairs has tagged him and effectively said he lied, and then repeated it in Parliament today?
\
Let’s be clear about two things: first, this will blow over until the next storm in a tea cup; and second, no country – except Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar – has found reliable ways to deal with Trump. Let us be equally clear that Modi has never asked Trump or any external interloper to interfere in bilateral matters. Modi is a stickler for rules and follows the brief his bureaucrats prepare for him to the T. Trump is no one’s fool, although the Democrats would like you to believe that. Assuming that Trump is a fool is the biggest mistake one can make, something the Democrats don’t seem to understand even after their rout in the 2016 US presidential election.


That said, there is no doubt Trump is lying (no, he didn’t misunderstand what Modi may or may not have told him; he is deliberately lying). The question is why? We should be worrying not about ‘what’ he said (as Indians are at the moment), but ‘why’ he said it. The ‘what’ is not important, the ‘why’ is critical. I have discussed the more macro reasons here, but what we need to do now is understand how this episode will play out.

Let us be clear, the Indian economy is in doldrums, and the standard Indian practice has been to play ostrich at home, and the perpetually-petulant-victim abroad. In effect, our failure at domestic policy leaves our diplomats with few choices – none of them viable. But what is inexcusable is that they have either failed to read the signs in advance or haven’t been heard at the top.

Since Barack Obama’s second term (2012-16), the signs of India fatigue have only been growing, be it on patents, or a host of other issues. Trump has simply distilled that fatigue and accelerated its effects. To start with, he refused to come to India for the Republic Day celebrations citing “scheduling constraints”. That he took a month to decline the invitation should make it clear that there were no prior commitments, just higher priorities.

He has travelled to Saudi Arabia and executed a remarkable about-turn of his Saudi hate. The Saudis had to sign an agreement for US$110 billion in immediate weapons purchases with a total of US$350 billion committed over 10 years. Trump then shifted his attack to Qatar, calling it “a funder of terrorism at a very high level”. The Qataris had to buy their way out, agreeing to spend billions of dollars within months, be it in weapons purchases or oil refining. The three incidents – turning down India’s invitation, travelling to Saudi Arabia, and training and then un-training his guns on Qatar – should have flashed warning signs to India.

Yet, what did India do? It had Ivanka Trump speak at a leadership conference. The fact that India thinks it can buy off a president with intangible platitudes says a lot about how badly our assessment has gone wrong. And yet, we still fail to learn the lessons. The initial 2+2 dialogue of defence and foreign ministers was ostensibly postponed, again due to prior commitments. It pretty much forced India to sign up for COMCASA and LEMOA in order to get the 2+2 going. But there again, these foundational agreements haven’t translated into any tangible gain for the US. This is why we had Trump tweet about tariffs once more (he initially raised India’s duties on Harley-Davidson in his 2017 State of the Union speech).


Meanwhile, Trump saw the highly hostile statements on Kashmir, clearly sanctioned from the very top, emanating from Moscow. Former Russian Ambassador to India, Vyacheslav Trubnikov, a confidante of Russia’s Afghanistan point person Zamir Kabulov, had said, “the solution to Afghanistan lies in Kashmir“. Far from any backlash, India proceeded to give Russia close to US$9 billion worth of arms deals for the S-400 and second Akula class submarine. Contrast this with Pakistan. Pakistan can offer Trump minor tangibles in Afghanistan, which have a disproportionate political effect back in the US (Pakistan understands this well). Pakistan has Trump in a monopsony situation by being the only supply route, with Russia and Iran having been alienated.

What was all this meant to signal to Trump? Tweet on tariffs, you won’t get anything; we’ll keep throwing sweet nothings your and Ivanka’s way. But attack us on core interests like Kashmir as Trubnikov did, actively undermine Indian interests as Kabulov had, and you would get US$9 billion. Trump clearly internalised this message. In the end, there is no conclusion other than that India has brought this upon itself. It should have read the warning signs, it didn’t. There should be no doubt that Trump has done this to extract a price. How steep that price will be, shall be determined by what Trump believes: the reality of the Indian economy or Modi’s hype. In the end, Modi may very well end up becoming a victim of his own successful marketing campaign.

The author is a senior fellow at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies. He tweets @iyervval. Views are personal.

https://theprint.in/opinion/trump-i...tely-lied-about-modis-kashmir-request/266723/
Abhijit Iyer-val is being disingenuous here!
He's just conflating his long standing grouse about India-US relations with an off-the-cuff gaffe by Trump!

Sab saale apni matlab nikal hi lete hain...har mauke mein!!!

There is no indication that Trump planned this nefarious lie. All indications are that he was shooting from the hip with no clear knowledge on the subject. The running number of lies/misinformation spread by Trump since he took office is 10,000+ now!

Nut jobs like Iyerval try to seek attention at every turn!

Even though its true that US-India strategic dialog is not sprinting forward as both US & India hope, conflating the larger issue with an idiot's gaffe (Trump's) is foolish!

As I've explained before, if Trump had planned to lie (which he does often too) then the mechanics of that speaking and the aftermath is normally very very different! This gaffe by Trump clearly appears like his usual bombastic BS....nothing else!
 

Chimpoo

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
182
Likes
352
Country flag
Meanwhile, Trump saw the highly hostile statements on Kashmir, clearly sanctioned from the very top, emanating from Moscow. Former Russian Ambassador to India, Vyacheslav Trubnikov, a confidante of Russia’s Afghanistan point person Zamir Kabulov, had said, “the solution to Afghanistan lies in Kashmir. Far from any backlash, India proceeded to give Russia close to US$9 billion worth of arms deals for the S-400 and second Akula class submarine.

The author is a senior fellow at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies. He tweets @iyervval. Views are personal.

https://theprint.in/opinion/trump-i...tely-lied-about-modis-kashmir-request/266723/
What is the source of that quote?

Apparently that the ex Russian Ambassador to India Vyacheslav Trubiknov alleged statement was quoted in a Quint op-ed article from May 23 2018 (now apparently deleted) ,

But quotes from the article can be found in the world affairs board.

"For India, the main issue will be the slow but sure infiltration of the Pakistan lobby in the Kremlin, spearheaded by Zamir Kabulov, Russia's point-person on Afghanistan, and former ambassador to India Vyacheslav Ivanovich Trubnikov.

They have been floating ideas like “the solution to Afghanistan lies in Kashmir”. These two it seems, have created a clique involving three other junior ministers in the Kremlin, with the official line that any perceived Indian movement closer to the US must be balanced by a Russian move towards Pakistan.


India, for its part, can hardly raise this issue, as it amounts to the internal affairs of the Russian government."

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=66992&page=5&p=1041706&viewfull=1#post1041706

Hmmm.Seems the author of that May 23 2018 article was also Abhijit Iyer-Mitra.
http://www.ipcs.org/expert_media.php?pageno=51


Still,all this is beside the point.
If Trump did lie about Modi,the Russian equivalent would be , President Putin publicly and purposely misrepresenting what Modi said to him in a private meeting.
 
Last edited:

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
What is the source of that quote?

Apparently that the ex Russian Ambassador to India Vyacheslav Trubiknov alleged statement was quoted in a Quint op-ed article from May 23 2018 (now apparently deleted) ,

But quotes from the article can be found in the world affairs board.

"For India, the main issue will be the slow but sure infiltration of the Pakistan lobby in the Kremlin, spearheaded by Zamir Kabulov, Russia's point-person on Afghanistan, and former ambassador to India Vyacheslav Ivanovich Trubnikov.

They have been floating ideas like “the solution to Afghanistan lies in Kashmir”. These two it seems, have created a clique involving three other junior ministers in the Kremlin, with the official line that any perceived Indian movement closer to the US must be balanced by a Russian move towards Pakistan.


India, for its part, can hardly raise this issue, as it amounts to the internal affairs of the Russian government."

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=66992&page=5&p=1041706&viewfull=1#post1041706

Hmmm.Seems the author of that May 23 2018 article is also Abhijit Iyer-Mitra.
http://www.ipcs.org/expert_media.php?pageno=51


Still,all this is beside the point.
If Trump did lie about Modi,the Russian equivalent would be , President Putin publicly and purposely misrepresenting what Modi said to him in a private meeting.
Like I just said about this whackjob Abhijit Iyerval!!!
 

Chimpoo

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
182
Likes
352
Country flag
Abhijit Iyer-val is being disingenuous here!
He's just conflating his long standing grouse about India-US relations with an off-the-cuff gaffe by Trump!
Like I just said about this whackjob Abhijit Iyerval!!!
In the recent article by Iyer-Mitra in the thread, an op-ed on a Trump public statement, he seems to have a bigger issue with Modi and his leadership abilities ,the Indo-Russian partnership and Russia's arms deals with India.

Nothing wrong with arguing that,to be fair. But,as far as I can see, he didn't make any good arguments or provide any convincing evidence
So ,less a whackjob, more a propagandist. That's all I have to say,really..
 
Last edited:

ssg_slayer

Director at Search & Troll Wing - STW
Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2019
Messages
351
Likes
988
In the recent article by Iyer-Mitra in the thread, an op-ed on a Trump public statement, he seems to have a bigger issue with Modi and his leadership abilities ,the Indo-Russian partnership and Russia's arms deals with India.

Nothing wrong with arguing that,to be fair. But,as far as I can see, he didn't make any good arguments or provide any convincing evidence
So ,less a whackjob, more a propagandist. That's all I have to say,really..

Journos and these kind of article writers have no knowledge of diplomatic maneuvers their articles are complete trash. What they know we also know, what they don't know is the real diplomacy.
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
In the recent article by Iyer-Mitra in the thread, an op-ed on a Trump public statement, he seems to have a bigger issue with Modi and his leadership abilities ,the Indo-Russian partnership and Russia's arms deals with India.

Nothing wrong with arguing that,to be fair. But,as far as I can see, he didn't make any good arguments or provide any convincing evidence
So ,less a whackjob, more a propagandist. That's all I have to say,really..
Agreed.
No issue with his putting forth a viewpoint. My annoyance is with him linking unrelated events just to buttress his worldviews!
 

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
7,423
Likes
12,960
Country flag
Why Indians want White man's validation in every matter ????

From 1971's GOI is repeating ''Kashsmir is internal issue and it not allow third party interference'',after 38 years one loud mouth said some loose comment on Kashmir Indians started P!$$ing in their pants in no-time, i mean every media and even DFI discussing this issue for hours(pages). :pound:

Sometimes i think 'it better to be DIRECT SLAVE TO WHITE-MAN (like we under Britishraj before 1947) than this mental slavishness'.
The way Indians are responding is correct, people should know they should not badmouth or lie on the issues which are sensitive to Indian strategic interests.

Indians feel betrayed and they are expressing themselves, in my view we should wait for some time till our Govt. gives clarification.

India is the one country which went against USA more times than any other country at the UN since independence.
 

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
4,242
Likes
16,076
Country flag
The way I see it, US perceives India as a bulwark against its rising rival China. Much like how China perceives Pakistan vis-a-vis India. Our relevance to the US would be largely dependent on how far we are willing to toe US line on matters that are of strategic importance to the US. This was implicit in the way how most previous US administrations approached India. its just that Trump has made it very explicit.
That’s perfectly fine, we too have a similar relationship with the US, vi’s a cis Pakistan and China. It’s not like we give a damn about any of their interests otherwise.
 

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
4,242
Likes
16,076
Country flag
.... How can any leader have a honest conversation with this dude now.
Unless there’s something weird going on that we don’t know and Modi is in on it, you are absolutely right. Who on earth is going to be willing to say almost anything on sensitive issues with this chap?
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
The way I see it, US perceives India as a bulwark against its rising rival China. Much like how China perceives Pakistan vis-a-vis India. Our relevance to the US would be largely dependent on how far we are willing to toe US line on matters that are of strategic importance to the US. This was implicit in the way how most previous US administrations approached India. its just that Trump has made it very explicit.
The problem is Trump has very little knowledge or understanding (leave alone appreciation) of US own worldview/policy! He looks at everything as to how it would benefit him personally at that very instant!!!

There are definitely several areas of mutual benefit for India-US (and there are some US own selfish needs...same is true for India). But Trump can't give two hoots to any of that!

Every other country (read: world leaders) have tried to massage his ego....which worked well until a point when Trump wants full submission...absence of which leads Trump going full ape shit on them (Macron, Theresa May etc have all experienced it). Saudis are the only ones that have effectively 'harnessed' Trump to their great advantage.

As I said earlier it's a fools errand to parse Trump's rant to decipher the larger strategy/meaning!

Long term, US sees India as a natural ally and a lot of good things will come out of it. But short term, Trump is desperately looking for anything that he can call a 'win' in Afghanistan....he'll sacrifice the larger interests of US, Afghanistan, India etc to get that. Pakis have been trying to convince him that he should leave Afghanistan to Taliban and call it a win. Trump was more or less willing to do that two years ago; but the good folks in the administration (Jim Mattis etc) stopped Trump from doing it. Now Trump has more 'yes man' than before surrounding him, so there's very little to stop his erratic thoughts from becoming actionable!

The world should just hope he gets defeated in the next 1 year!!!

My heart weeps for the Afghan girls who'll be confined to a life in hell if Taliban comes back to power!
 
Last edited:

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
4,242
Likes
16,076
Country flag
Agreed.
No issue with his putting forth a viewpoint. My annoyance is with him linking unrelated events just to buttress his worldviews!
Regardless of disagreement with his opinion, he has an interesting take on many matters including this and dismissing him is not warranted. He’s hardly anti-Modi, many of us have problems with specifics of Modi’s policies on many matters. I think he’s overreading on this issue but who really knows what Trump is thinking.
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
Regardless of disagreement with his opinion, he has an interesting take on many matters including this and dismissing him is not warranted. He’s hardly anti-Modi, many of us have problems with specifics of Modi’s policies on many matters. I think he’s overreading on this issue but who really knows what Trump is thinking.
I am not calling him anti-Modi, anti-India etc.....he's just another vain attention seeker (like most other journalists are). Again, he has his right to express his views.....but they're mostly incorrect as he normally tries to connect some minor stuff that he's privy to and explain away a much larger phenomenon.
 

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
7,423
Likes
12,960
Country flag
West(US) is not a friend of India and i don't want to talk about islamic $hit holes (Af&pak).If they both met obviously unpleasant things happen (to India).



India gave clarification from 1971 itself.IF u are not consider that then MEA already responded it within hours and the matter is finished..... the issue here is not about clarity but mental slavery.
why are you getting that feeling of mental slavery?

India do not care about anything when it comes to strategic interests.
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
Regardless of disagreement with his opinion, he has an interesting take on many matters including this and dismissing him is not warranted. He’s hardly anti-Modi, many of us have problems with specifics of Modi’s policies on many matters. I think he’s overreading on this issue but who really knows what Trump is thinking.
I am not calling him anti-Modi, anti-India etc.....he's just another vain attention seeker (like most other journalists are). Again, he has his right to express his views.....but they're mostly incorrect as he normally tries to connect some minor stuff that he's privy to and explain away a much larger phenomenon.
Here's an another attention seeking vain journalist:

https://www.firstpost.com/india/the...-greater-damage-to-kashmir-issue-7041861.html

"Hard-nosed realist that he is, Modi is profoundly unlikely not to have asked Trump for help on Kashmir or Pakistan."

Essentially this dude is saying that Modi would've asked for Trump's help (what evidence does he have? None!)...but slying stating "help on Kashmir or Pakistan" in the context of "request for mediation"!!!

This is the word jugglery scumbags use to confuse the readers....almost alluding that Modi is dishonest and Trump is right....but surreptitiously being vague!!!
 

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
4,242
Likes
16,076
Country flag
Here's an another attention seeking vain journalist:

https://www.firstpost.com/india/the...-greater-damage-to-kashmir-issue-7041861.html

"Hard-nosed realist that he is, Modi is profoundly unlikely not to have asked Trump for help on Kashmir or Pakistan."

Essentially this dude is saying that Modi would've asked for Trump's help (what evidence does he have? None!)...but slying stating "help on Kashmir or Pakistan" in the context of "request for mediation"!!!

This is the word jugglery scumbags use to confuse the readers....almost alluding that Modi is dishonest and Trump is right....but surreptitiously being vague!!!
Actually, many Indian leaders including India have asked for the US to help with respect to Pakistan, sometimes specifically with regard to happenings in Kashmir. That’s something that possibly happened even in February. Abhijit Iyer is a bit of a provocateur and commonly uses language of the kind you quoted. The question is what kind of help is being sought. On the settlement of the Kashmir, even a guy like Obama decided discretion was a better part of valour; who on earth would ask Trump (actually Jared Kushner) to intervene in such a complicated and sensitive matter. There is always some mediation/ intervention that happens, making it official and on a bigger plane is simply not on
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
Actually, many Indian leaders including India have asked for the US to help with respect to Pakistan, sometimes specifically with regard to happenings in Kashmir. That’s something that possibly happened even in February. Abhijit Iyer is a bit of a provocateur and commonly uses language of the kind you quoted. The question is what kind of help is being sought. On the settlement of the Kashmir, even a guy like Obama decided discretion was a better part of valour; who on earth would ask Trump (actually Jared Kushner) to intervene in such a complicated and sensitive matter. There is always some mediation/ intervention that happens, making it official and on a bigger plane is simply not on
That's exactly what I am saying too.
India obviously sought help from several countries to reign in the jihadis in Kashmir (France, UK, Germany, US, UAE, Saudis etc), but Swami slyly stating that in an obscure fashion in the context of Trump's claim that 'mediation between India-Pakistan was sought' is disingenuous!
It's like someone suspects their spouse is cheating on them, and some asshole says "yeah, I once saw your spouse speaking with some random person".....he/she can claim that it's an innocuous matter of fact statement....but in the context is very disingenuous!!!
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top