Tiger or Lion- who is the king of beast?

Who do you think is the King of Beasts?

  • Tiger

    Votes: 45 69.2%
  • Lion

    Votes: 20 30.8%

  • Total voters
    65
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Sword

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Your anger just shows how much you're being exploited and all the stuff you present isnt science, its pseudoscience lol Your desperation also admits that you are jealous of the lions superior anatomy, so you have to make pretend as if the tiger had the mane he would then be the superior, sorry, but never gona happen.

The mane, the crown...




Lets here what the experts have to say about your phoney shoulder, neck and size comparison rant:


"Nine times out of ten a lion will lick atiger," he said. "A tiger will fight with all four feet and with his teeth, while a lion generally uses only his two forepaws and teeth. But a lion Is tougher than a tiger. he can take it better. See that big lion in that cage over there? See how much heavier he is than a tiger, especially around the neck and shoulders? His mane protects him, too. And the lion is a more aggressive fighter than the tiger, he keeps attacking, keeps trying for the tigers throat until he gets It. The tiger generally grabs hold where he can-maybe on the lion s shoulder or a paw-and won t let go. That way the tiger doesn't hurt the lion vitally unless he hap- pens to be lucky enough to get a throat hold In the beginning-but a flon s throat Isn't so easy to reach."
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1937/04/11/page/105/article/whos-the-king-of-beasts


lol

Same trainer rosaire:




Look at the forearm of the man, the tigers neck is the length of 1 of his forearm, the lions mane is that of almost three of the same guys arm...hence more protection, more size for intimidation, and something unfortunately for you, the tiger will never evolve with one, you have to be a brave animal and stand up to hundreds of hyenas for thousands of years in the open grounds, form a coalition and fight amoungs them selves, and live in prides further promoting the mane...something no other big cat species has ever been able to achieve a status of a King. The tiger known as hidden assassin only had stripes to blend in with the tall grass of bengal and thicker jungle environments, in other words to hide, to hide makes him have a cowardly aspect and quality. no cowardly figure could be worthy of the title King.

So carry on with more of your...British...they fooled the world rants.
 

A chauhan

"अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l"
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@Sword Bhai Shahab, I don't have that much of time to debunk your long long posts. whatever I have written is based on the second hand information and understanding I have received from various sources and I don't think that you too would be having first hand info.

Please refrain from making fun of me. When I said Tigers are more intelligent I said this on the ground of Nat Geo Wild or Discovery's program perhaps "Lion Man of Africa" which was broadcasted 3-4 days ago, on which a conversationalist who had 30 years experience said so. He said something like this - "Tigers in my experience are more smarter and took intelligent decisions than Lions, tigers are more active too"

So I am not cooking up things, If some experts have different views than you then they doesn't become the object of humor or insult.

I figure I get one more in for laughs...Again your heart size BS is just being making up out of thin air:...another fail attempt to say and make up anything to hide the bias'ticty
FYKI my first Avatar on this forum in 2009 was a picture of a Lion, second was "alien playing chase" third is "Ghostrider" a character from a movie Christian in nature and I am a Hindu. SO pl e e e ase ! I am not biased, I know it very well that Tigers as well as Lions existed in India and are Indian animals.

Pseudoscience: is a claim, belief or practice presented as scientific, but which does not adhere to the scientific method.[1][2] A field, practice, or body of knowledge can reasonably be called pseudoscientific when it is presented as consistent with the norms of scientific research, but it demonstrably fails to meet these norms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience
:dude:
 

salute

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Lions have been traditionally given royal treatment in Indian tradition, even in places like south-east Asia where there are no lions, the Indian culture has influenced their world view. As for who is 'really' king of the beast is a moot question.
where you read that there are no lions south east asia,

you dont know about lions of gir,gujarat.
 

Sword

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@Sword Bhai Shahab, I don't have that much of time to debunk your long long posts. whatever I have written is based on the second hand information and understanding I have received from various sources and I don't think that you too would be having first hand info.
Of course they were first hand, they are straight from either the articles of the events or books from people like clyde beatty who are telling of their life experiences, its gets no more credible than hearing from the person them selves who has worked with both simultaneously. Second hand would be like, I heard this happened, hear say, or not citing the person, place, date of the original is considered second hand.

Please refrain from making fun of me. When I said Tigers are more intelligent I said this on the ground of Nat Geo Wild or Discovery's program perhaps "Lion Man of Africa" which was broadcasted 3-4 days ago, on which a conversationalist who had 30 years experience said so. He said something like this - "Tigers in my experience are more smarter and took intelligent decisions than Lions, tigers are more active too"
I need not make fun of anything unless its outlandish false claims like the others and their british cult rants, or sources coming from pseudoscience. If you read the all empires link, it already cited many trainers who all agree (even clyde beatty too) that the tiger is more intelligent in terms of acrobatics and the willingness to perform and also to be crafty, the lion is pretty straight forward, dont mess with him or his ladys, property and he wont mess with you. On the active part, if you read the wild dog vs bengal tiger thread, then you would fully understand why tigers are more active, lions have the leisure to sleep almost un-disturbed, by any predator especially when in coalitions and prides, even a clan of 30+ hyenas wouldn't approach and harass 3+ fully maned male lions, hence not much of a need to worry and run about...


hyena are afraid of just 1 well maned male:

no tiger can just do this to this many buffalo, again, juvenile lions (small manes):

The biologist stated tigers hunt 200-600 pound animals:

The buffalo being attacked video has the close up still photo, showing the tiger is taller at the head/shoulders, a tiger is only 2-3 feet tall on average, hence these were mere calves who drove off the tiger:


I'm pretty sure if the lot of biologist saw the tigers prowess of hunting guar and adult buffalo they would mention it, but they stated other wise, again, calves:




let alone a coalition or pride. tigers cant have this option alone, if a large pack of wild dogs is near the tiger has no choice but to run or die, hence he isnt active and prowling the jungle in a state of badass no one mess with me, hes actually active because wild dogs would kill him, any sized tiger wouldnt stand a chance against 30+ wild dogs.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35515


So I am not cooking up things, If some experts have different views than you then they doesn't become the object of humor or insult.

FYKI my first Avatar on this forum in 2009 was a picture of a Lion, second was "alien playing chase" third is "Ghostrider" a character from a movie Christian in nature and I am a Hindu. SO pl e e e ase ! I am not biased, I know it very well that Tigers as well as Lions existed in India and are Indian animals.

:dude:
I am not bias for either animal, my favorite animal is the shire horse, then bulls, and lions dont even make the top 5, just was addressing things the thread starter had as incorrect or false. He stated tigers hunt bigger animals, I showed biologist who stated lions hunt larger prey on average even alone, including giant eland and giraffes, (almost 1,000 of them have been recorded killed), tigers havent killed 10 bull guar to show for on a legitimate source, he stated size, I showed lions are taller, heavier and bigger on average...that lions have killed tigers more than vice versa almost 10x fold, both in captivity and in the wild, incorporated experts opinions who handled both simultaneously and with empirical evidence. Also showed most of the claims of british propaganda were just false accusations, the like the gir fight, the romans the king of oude ect.

I was interested, because I notice this was a forum with mostly people from india, so I thought more data would come from indian roots, not english placid wiki like sites...and was more so thinking the discussion was going to be on the indian lion, (which as I shown, has records of)...but I agree, no need for insults or butt hurtness via personals.

Just trying to stay as close as possible to truth, nothing more nothing less.
 
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Sword

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@Sword Bhai Shahab,

FYKI my first Avatar on this forum in 2009 was a picture of a Lion, second was "alien playing chase" third is "Ghostrider" a character from a movie Christian in nature and I am a Hindu. SO pl e e e ase ! I am not biased, I know it very well that Tigers as well as Lions existed in India and are Indian animals.
Oh and sorry, the post from the first reply wasnt adressed entirely to you, just replyed in general, the rest of the info-stated, was for the other 3 british ranters.
 

Sword

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Again, saty stated the 6 lion against 1 tiger was european britishers....wrong, made up and fabricated lies:

The lion-tiger fight was produced by Castle films, it states right on the cover CASTLE FILMS:


http://www.chicagofilmarchives.org/collections/index.php/Detail/Object/Show/object_id/2728



Castle Films was a home-movie distributor founded in California by former newsreel cameraman Eugene W. Castle (1897–1960) in 1924. The company originally produced business and advertising films. By 1931 it had moved its principal office to New York City. In 1937, Castle branched out into 8 mmand 16 mm home movies, buying newsreel footage and old theatrical films for home use. Castle's first home movie was a newsreel of the Hindenburg explosion.[1] That same year, Castle launched his "News Parade" series, a year-in-review newsreel; travelogues followed in 1938. Castle also released sports films, animal adventures, and "old time" movies.

Castle Films 1942 newsreel about the Doolittle Raid, Yanks Bomb Tokyo

Castle Films also distributed many children's Christmas shorts, some of which have been recently released on cheaply priced DVDs.

The films were sold at camera shops, in department stores, and by mail order catalog. Castle Films were extensively advertised in national magazines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Films


Is there a california in europe? This is an american owned company, again, stop making up lies. The same people who talk about martial state things martial never said, the tiger didnt win all the time, martial only mentioned 1 case and stated it was unheard of for the tiger to win, the king of oude sold that tiger to jamrach, on original records he only killed 1 lion not 31...from hunting and size/weights all has the lion hunting bigger animals and in general is the bigger of the two.
 

harsh

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As per discovery channel , lion has more weight and power and tiger is more agile. ......and even when lion fight for his territory to a tiger or leopard in Africa lion kills the latter.

and one more thing our national animal was a lion but indra gandhi change it to bengal tiger because then the government want to save tiger. Again when modi government comes to power make in india compain has its logo as lion .
Our national animal is tiger but everywhere india is represented by lion .
 

Sword

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More size comparisons:

Clyde beatty worked with 2,000 lions and tigers (that means 1,000 tigers are accounted for smaller than lions)


Photo proof shows no 42 kg weight advantage for tigers, just a myth made by saty like the britishers)








1,000 pound lion named samson:
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1297&bih=610&tbm=bks&q="Attractions+of+this+unusual+steak+house+include+Samson,+1,000-pound+African"&oq="Attractions+of+this+unusual+steak+house+include+Samson,+1,000-pound+African"&gs_l=serp.3...239556.248796.0.248979.2.2.0.0.0.0.142.263.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..2.0.0.yNVEC8JAkoM

Lions are the biggest, heaviest and tallest big cats:




The hind limb proportions of both lion and tiger are similar, but the relatively shorter forelimbs of the tiger...Comparinglimb bone lengths, it was found that the radius was significantly longer in the lion (about the same length
https://books.google.com/books?id=XFIbjBEQolMC&pg=PA56&dq=%22lion%22++tiger+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAWoVChMI4autkMGOxgIVhUKSCh09iwDv#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%20tiger%20%22shorter%22&f=false

(asiatic lion)
The lion is higher at the shoulder but shorter in the body than the tiger
https://books.google.com/books?id=ZP7fAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA199&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBGoVChMIvZ28jMSOxgIVSouSCh3QywAn#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false
The Asiatic lion in India is shorter in length than the Indian tiger, but slightly taller in shoulder height
https://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&pg=PA110&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEMQ6AEwCGoVChMIvZ28jMSOxgIVSouSCh3QywAn#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false
His legs and claws resemble those of the lion, only the legs are much shorter in proportion to the size of the animal
https://books.google.com/books?id=HKYuxHhPh3oC&pg=PA130&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCWoVChMIvZ28jMSOxgIVSouSCh3QywAn#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false
the legs are rather shorter, ad the animal bends them more and has more of the snake like flexure of the spine when he walks
https://books.google.com/books?id=CLgTAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA728&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAzgUahUKEwj4tMG3xY7GAhUGB5IKHTO7APU#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false
than even the lion himself ; it is much slenderer also in proportion to its size ; its legs shorter, and its neck and body longer.
https://books.google.com/books?id=kogMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA423&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDIQ6AEwBjgUahUKEwj4tMG3xY7GAhUGB5IKHTO7APU#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false
His body is longer and more slender than that of the lion, and his legs shorter,
https://books.google.com/books?id=8BJFAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA50&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBDgoahUKEwi2r6WBx47GAhWFOpIKHbK5AJk#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false
The second is the tiger, rather longer than the lion, but not so tall
https://books.google.com/books?id=NyoqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA43&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shorter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBjgoahUKEwi2r6WBx47GAhWFOpIKHbK5AJk#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false

The tiger stands lower on the limbs than the lion, and is thus proportionately longer in the body
https://books.google.com/books?id=klIjAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA374&dq=%22lion%22+%22longer%22+%22tiger%22+limbs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAWoVChMIi6-DvseOxgIVh36SCh0jqACs#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22longer%22%20%22tiger%22%20limbs&f=false

Bigger is better A lion and tiger are almost equal in size.Tigers have longer
bodies than lions, but they are not as tall
https://books.google.com/books?id=v92FTWrCTvwC&pg=PT6&dq=%22lion%22+%22longer%22+%22tiger%22+legs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAGoVChMItKnj-MiOxgIViX6SCh2X0QB4#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22longer%22%20%22tiger%22%20legs&f=false
but the lion stands higher at the shoulder than the tiger.
https://books.google.com/books?id=c7gRAQAAMAAJ&q=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22stands+higher%22&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22stands+higher%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAGoVChMI3KjGrsuOxgIVAX6SCh1-QQDw
Aside from lions having relatively longer legs, it is virtually impossible to tell these two cats apart without their skins
https://books.google.com/books?id=dbQ8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22longer+legs%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAWoVChMIofzI_8yOxgIVi12SCh0oaQFW#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tiger%22%20%22longer%20legs%22&f=false
Although the lion is not our number 1 big cat, it is the tallest
http://www.catsaroundtheglobe.com/top-5-big-wild-cats-list/
Lions are largest of the African big cat species. The lion is the tallest of the felines
http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2010/01/07/25-big-cat-pictures-as-captured-by-a-cat-whisperer/
The lion is part of the 4 big cats known as the genus Panthera, which includes ... It is the tallest of all known cats reaching a height of 5 feet 5 inches
http://africawildlife.org/lion/

Bengal tigers (panthera Tigris Tigris) are smaller than the Siberian tigers. A male
stands between 2 and 3 feet tall at the shoulder.
http://www.shambala.org/adopt_tiger.htm

Bengal Tigers have weight advantage over 42 kg.

2.Lions were became dogs to survive in African savanna aka runners,grow height,pack,rundown hunting method etc resemblance dog characteristics not CATS.

If you put 50 kg Leopard vs 50 kg dog within 10 mts there is a dead dog. Now imagine 70 kg Leopard vs 50 kg dog... a joke

Apply same theory to Avg 222 Bengal Tiger Vs 180 African lion (not 1 even 3 lions)............... A MASSACRE
Yup. lions are apted like dogs but with all the physiologys of a panthera, hence double the fighting power:


tiger can kill 3 lions? lol that never happened in all of history, I already showed a lion boss tweeds who killed three bengals in one fight in 1936, heres another lion who killed 3 tigers all at once:



Poor tigers, they dont stand a chance against the superior fighting skills lions have. lol your logic is hilarious, leopard vs dog? The dog doesnt have a full body armored mane, the dog doesnt have retractable claws, nor strikes with his paws like the lion...but of course you would say something like that, because the british right, they made the video. lol
 
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Sword

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Posted already but for u...

Bengal Tiger is on Avg 195 kg to max 245 kg by modern scientific methods.


And lion avg is 174 to max 193 kg.Tiger has 50+ kg weight advantage.



Weight... Tiger
Power.... Tiger
Agility......Tiger
Up&Long Jump..... Tiger
Ambush predator.. Tiger
Long Jaws&Claws.... Tiger
Elephant&Rhino hunter.... Tiger (Single) Lion pack never attempted in the history
Ha ha ha, you showed that already, only using manipulated data comparing old lion records with new tiger numbers, your figure shows only 14 tigers weighed, that means you can only choose 14 of the lions, not the 200 plus, the lion chart doesnt even have any of the ages, how can any scientist confirm they were all adults?



Still none pass 280 kg


the biggest tiger in your chart of 20 year range being 258 kg...XD thats small compared to the lions:

900 lb wild lion
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/80867453/


East African Business Digest - Page 13

TWO mamuding lions which, since January this year, killed 244 cattle and three donkeys, were shot at lssuna village in Tanganyika. The lions were found to weigh 700 and 800 lb.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=bks&q="TWO+mamuding+lions+which,+since+January+this+year,+killed+244+cattle+and+three+donkeys,+were+shot+at+lssuna+village+in+Tanganyika.+The+lions+were+found+to+weigh+700+and+800+lb."&oq="TWO+mamuding+lions+which,+since+January+this+year,+killed+244+cattle+and+three+donkeys,+were+shot+at+lssuna+village+in+Tanganyika.+The+lions+were+found+to+weigh+700+and+800+lb."&gs_l=serp.3...637200.642782.0.642982.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c.1j2.64.serp..3.0.0.HJFY1GLZ-m8


A game warden takes stock ... - Page 164
The weight of the lions was of very great interest in view of the assertion in a recent book (by Martin Johnson) that a lion was shot weighing over 750 lb.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=bks&q=view+of+the+assertion+in+a+"recent+book+(by+Martin+Johnson)+that+a+lion+was+shot+weighing+over+750+lb."&oq=view+of+the+assertion+in+a+"recent+book+(by+Martin+Johnson)+that+a+lion+was+shot+weighing+over+750+lb."&gs_l=serp.3...40553.45785.0.46092.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c.1j2.64.serp..3.0.0.V7SBCedoVHA


295 kg lion Victor zenni bow record
284 kg botswanas highest record
282 kg sudan record lion J. K. Roberts 頭骨長375㎜
282 kg angola record lion G. Gladney
281 kg kenya record lion M. J Timmins
280 kg udanda record lion G. Prud'homme
280 kg Tanzania lion J. Reid 肩高104cm
280 kg transval lion C. V. Merriman
280 kg transval lion George Tsaparis

lion is light in colour and at 280 kg,
http://www.bowhunting.net/eMagazine/Articles/2004/04-AfricasBowhunter008.html


Even a juvinile lion can weigh heavier than your average bengal tiger:


235 kg young male

http://blog.africadreamsafaris.com/2013/12/12/serengeti-lion-project-report-for-december-2013/


on modern technology via electronic scales, and on video, lions are the heaviest:


There isnt a single tiger in the 20th century that went pass 280 kg in the wild, photos showing size comparison was proof, not a single tiger is larger than a male lion both standing at the same height. Skull of the asiatic lion was almost twice as big as the tigers. Maybe these are british scales lol

- Tiger 100% lose to elephant and rhino in healthy specimens
- Lion height, size, weight on average, at lowest, at max
- Lion courage, gameness, strength in striking and biting
- Lion more fighting experience month to month, better stamina
- Lion more endurance, protecting factor mane
- Lion historic records wins, 100+ tiger less than 20
- Historical artifacts 100+ 20+ cultures, tiger less than 5
- Healdry tigers only on 2 flags, lions on 30+ world wide
- Hunts bigger animals on average and at max with group or alone tallest animal on the planet giraffes, heaviest animals white rhino and african bull elephant, bigger than than asian elephant and rhinos small horns and body

- tiger, better swimmer, more acrobatically and agile, bigger fangs, more cowardly, passive, vulnerable at the neck, weaker strikes, softer bite, killed by 150 lb small leopards more than 10X, loses to the females who are smaller, weaker ect, killed by wild dogs casually.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35256

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35515

Tigers loses to animals twice to 4 times smaller to them, while lions kill grizzly bears and polar bears, 2-3 x the sizes of tigers:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35295

Saty, = british lover. lol

Cant even handle lionesses let alone male lion:

1925 asiatic lioness kills tiger in nagpur, maharaj bagh zoo
1903 lioness kills tiger in british menagerie
1924 lioness kills tiger stalemating him in london
1934 lioness named sultana owned by terrell jacobs, beats up two bengal tigers at once
1936 lioness nearly kills tiger, tiger is saved by water at soles brothers circus
1905 lioness almost kills tiger ripping him to shreds, william cartner thomas
1995 two young asiatic lionesses kill tigress in nadankanan zoo


Lioness > entire tiger species
 
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Sword

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Explain this:

Female leopard named Puss and wild bengal tiger

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper 11/Geneva NY Daily Times/Geneva NY Daily Times 1902 Nov-Oct 1903 Grayscale/Geneva NY Daily Times 1902 Nov-Oct 1903 Grayscale - 0408.pdf

and this:

Once Hideyoshi gave a live dog to his pet tiger as a treat; but the animal, realising the situation before the tiger did, seized the tiger by the throat and choked it to death before it could defend itself, though the dog too died from its wounds.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Onc......1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..16.0.0.q0jhYa7RgwE

what happen to the tigers 42 kg+ weight advantage? thats what can happen in an instant unless the animal has a mane:


Lion bigger than siberians and bengals.
 

Sword

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The lion was in india just as long if not longer than tigers:

Ashokas monuments:



The pillars of Ashoka are a series of columns dispersed throughout the Indian subcontinent, erected or at least inscribed with edicts by the Mauryan king Ashoka during his reign in the 3rd century BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Ashoka



From the old Indian writings, we are led to believe that the lion, called singh, was formerly spread over the whole of India.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fttAAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA440&dq=lion+tiger+india&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_k7mvmuzJAhVLGR4KHaBvCbU4FBDoAQgmMAI#v=onepage&q=lion tiger india&f=false

Kailasa temple 8th century india

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/gigan...engineering-marvel-of-indias-master-builders/

Lions=Four Noble Truths

INDIAN FIELD SPORTS. (Extract of a Letter, dated Meerut, June 29, 1822.)

I went expressly for lions, which are found beyond Hamsi, on the borders of the desert. I killed two lions, four lionesses, a tiger and tigress, and a leopard. Such sport, however, is certainly not sufficient to recompence a man for the vile climate he gets into in that part of the country. One of the lionesses had two young ones, which I brought away. They are quite tame, and are now running about my house. I do not think that the lion is so powerful an animal as the tiger, but he fights much better. A tiger will make his attack, and then retire; but a lion never retreats; he fights until he is killed. I believe I have now done with shooting. I can boast what I believe few others can: having shot an elephant dead with a single ball; twice killed tigers, right and left; and once lions right and left. On looking over my game-book, I find that I have killed, since the regiment has been at this station, two elephants, two lions, four lionesses, seventy-two tigers and tigresses, and caught a young elephant, a young lion and lioness, and a young tiger.
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA330&dq=meerut+india+lion+tiger&id=16ZFAQAAMAAJ#v=onepage&q=meerut india lion tiger&f=false

Hence the lion was seen in places like meerut, ganges yamuna, surat, bangalore ect which are all marked places of the ashoka pillars and sites...so this throws into play the ashoka pillars wasnt just to idolize the actual man ashoka, but the pillars were land marks of where the lions once reigned in the BC times of ancient india.

I mean, look at that...look at the placement of the ashoka pillar in sopara...thats exactly where in the 18th century a hunter saw a lion kill a tiger at:

WILD

An account which took place at india in Surat:


The fauna there includes a few tigers:
https://books.google.com/books?id=6...a=X&ei=jFyXVOSwDInUoAS60IGYAw&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBA

Tapi river is the home to the natural habitats of many wild animals including tigers, sloth bear, lions, snakes and many more.
http://www.ecoindia.com/rivers/tapi.html

One of the biggest tigers recorded came from surat:
https://books.google.com/books?id=I...X&ei=xl-XVID_FoKvoQSgkoHABQ&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAzgK




JUNGLES OF INDIA THRILLING SCENE

Our destination was the province called Guzerat, which is a large peninsula northwest of Bombay. We could have proceeded thither in a short time by sea, but Mr. Barrill took the circuitous land route, in order to see the country. At the end of the first day's journey we en camped at the base of a range of mountains " the height of which I supposed was fifteen hundred feet. These mountains extend entirely through western India. In the vicinity of our encampment, they were steep and stony. On aU sides were forests of bamboo, presenting a straighter and more regular aspet, than any woodland I had ever HINDOO HABITS….

At Domus, Mr. Barrill disposed of his tusks to a Parsee merchant, for about one-half the price he could have obtained if he had conveyed them to Surat. But he was glad to ged rid of the burden. Domus -n-as a small town. The inhabitants were courteous enough, but we understood that some of them were strongly suspected of being engaged in piracy. Our servants informed us that the Parsees were very numerous in the country northward, and their enterprise was the chief source of its prosperity. At noon the second day after our arrival at Domus, we came within sight of the celebrated city of Surat. Its towers and pagodas gave it an imposing appearance… but as we approached the walls age and decay were strikingly evident. This city is situated on the Taptee, about tvrenty miles from the point where the mouth, or bay, empties into the gulf of Cambay. It is about six miles in circumference, and shaped like a bow, the cord being the Taptee, having near its centre, a small castle garrisoned by a few sepoys and Europeans. On ofner sides, the town is surrounded by a wall, flanked with semicircular towers. Without the walls we found some good European houses, formerly occupied by the French, but now, the residence of English officers; but the houses within the town were very inferior, consisting only of timber frames filled up with bricks, their upper stories projecting over each other. The streets were narrow and irregular. Only small boats, called ketches, can ascend the river to Surat " yet the city once had a very extensive* commerce.

We remained three days in Surat. During this period, Mr. Barrill made some valuable acquaintance among the English, and purchased some small articles which he deemed necessary for our comfort. We found that nearly all the business of the city was carried on by the Parsees " the Hindoos being generally as indolent as they were superstitious…

The jungle was beautiful and luxuriant " the dark green foliage of the bamboo contrasting finely with the lighter verdure of the palm and the blossoms of numerous other trees for which I had no name. The encounter of the day before had left an impression not easily effaced, and we took care to avoid, as far as we could, consistently with our designs upon the game, the thickest jungle, where it was difficult to see beyond a few yards on each side. The Hindoos were all eye as they marched, and I thought, that each moment, one of them shuddered as if he expected the terrible tiger to spring from the bushes and dash him to the ground. We had proceeded about six or seven niiles, without meeting with any animals, deemed worthy of our rifles, and were growing more confident in our march. ^Lr. Barrill and I had fallen into conversation about the contrast between the forests of India and South Africa, when a tremendous roar, and the shrieks of the Hindoos, rang fearfully in our ears, and brought our shuddering horses to a halt. The case flashed on our eyes we turned. The Parsees stood as if paralyzed " the Hindoos shrieked and danced, and seemed senseless with fright. Hurrying away through the jungle we could occasionally catch a glimpse of the striped hack of a tiger ' and a faint shriek told us what he had dared to seize foi his meal. Humanity and our own burning thirst for distinction in this region, new to us, banished all feelings uf dread, and we started away, with ready rifles in pursuit, the rest of the party following, not knowing what else to do for safety. The tiger had disappeared beneath the thick foliage of the bushes, and the cessation of the victim's shrieks left us no clue to the ferocious animal's whereabouts.


When suddenly, within about fifty yards, sounded the tremendous voice of a lion " a sound we could never forget; and a succession of awful growls, snaps, and loud rustics among the bushes, led us to believe that the two tyrants of the forests were contending for the mastery. Anxious to gain a view of such a fearful struggle, we pressed forward^ till emerging from a clump of bushes, we beheld almost at our horse's feet, the lion and tiger rolling over and over, in a conflict which only death could interrupt. The mangled Hindoo was lying senseless upon his face, within a few yards of the ferocious combatants. We did not fire, but reserved our bullets till the conflict should destroy one of the beasts.

It was a horrible struggle. The tiger was quite as large as the lion, and much quicker in his movements. But the lion showed a decided superiority of strength, and his great mane effectually covered his head. Still his hack and sides were torn hy the tiger's claws, and for some minutes the contest was doubtful. Both possessed equal courage and determination, and no disposition was evinced to have a drawn battle. It was one of the compensations of nature. The tyrants of the woods, who had so long preyed upon the weaker animals, were now paying each other in due form. Draw near, ye ghosts of mangled cattle, stags and lesser beasts, to gloat over your revenge! Our prescence seemed a matter of indifference to the combatants, so intent were they in that struggle of strength and activity. But the endurance of the lion prevailed " seizing the tiger by the throat, he turned it on its back, and with his strong claws tore open its belly, and, thus put an end to its ferocious life. Hail, king of beasts, for so thou art I This had scarcely been achieved when simultaneotis balls from our rifles, stretched the lion beside the foe whom he had vanquished, and their blood mingled among the grass….

We immediately dismounted, hastened to the wounded Hindoo, while his companions busied themselves in striking their spears into the helpless tiger " and patting the head of the lion. Raising the poor fellow, we found that he was so dreadfully bitten and torn about the throat and breast, that his chance of living was but small. He could not speak. After a short time spent in reeking their cowardly vengeance on the tiger, his Hindoo companions said that they had quite enough of hunting tigers on foot, and that they would take the wounded man back to Elaw as quickly as possible. Mr. Barrill agreed with them that it was the best course they could pursue, and gave them the skin of the tiger to take with them as a kind compensation for their fright. They constructed a rude litter of branches, on which they laid their wounded companion " then skinned the tigers-cutting ofi" his head " while our Parsees were skinning the lion, and then bade us adieu. The lion was not as large as those we had killed in Africa " His skin was of a yellowish hue, the mane being some shades deeper. In other respects, there seemed to be no difference between the lions of Asia and Africa.

The tiger was a beautiful animal, the skin being striped as splendidly as that of the African zebra. The form resembled that of the common cat. The eyes were of a greenish grey color, having a ferocious glare " and the appearance of the teeth and claws was enough to send a thrill of terror through a person of timid nerves. The roar of this monster, which was the first intelligence of his presence we had received, resembled that of the lion, but was not so deep and grand. When enraged as it was during the conflict with the lion, it makes a shrill cry which pierces the ear in a most disagreeable way.


http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Perils_and_Pleasures_of_a_Hunters_Life_1000110811/209

http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Perils_and_Pleasures_of_a_Hunters_Life_1000110811/211

It states non-fiction:
http://www.readanybook.com/author/peregrine-herne-10860

It states it’s a autobiography:
http://www.gregorrarebooks.com/cgi-bin/gregor/19933.html?id=DHdpg6en

Here is Herne being noted as one of the first hunters of his era:
http://www.shakariconnection.com/early-african-hunter-books.html


I think the ashoka pillars origination reasons, was not only the lions previous distribution, but also where they saw the lions testament of might, prowess and strength show cased...in other words where both the lions and tigers inhabited, it was seen again and again, the lion killing the tiger and the superior of the two, why would they emit a tiger tower? Tigers cant take on 2 or more lions and win, let alone a pride... hence the 4 lions facing in all directions represents his powers in ruling the four corners of india.

Tigers cant handle this type of heavy competition:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-2-kings-in-Gir-coup/articleshow/45542721.cms

I'm sure they can co-exist, but only one will have absolute rights to any grounds they wish to rule, and thats the lion, hence answering the question of who is the King of beast.

lion

Re-reviewing what the hunter Herne peregrine stated about the lion and tiger attributes can be fact checked even today...he states the tigers roar is not so grand as the lions...lets look at the indian lions roar compared to the tigers:


 
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DingDong

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Only "Social" Animals can be tamed, only "Pack" Animals can really be petted and domesticated.

In my view higher appreciation for Lions in comparison to Tigers in our "Royal" literature has got something to do with the fact that Lions being "Social Animals" can be tamed and exhibit a predictable behaviour in captivity while Tigers being "Solitary" cannot be tamed and can pose mortal danger to anything and anybody in their close contact.

For the same reason it is harder to keep a Tiger in captivity compared to Lion. In circuses and in captivity Tigers are more prone to killing their handlers compared to Lions because of Temperament issues. It makes Lions the natural favourites and people will naturally sing praises for the "majestic lions".

Lions are more specialist animals compared to Tigers and Leopards because the later two can survive in a much wider variety of habitats from savannah to arctic.

Lions are majestic animals and good performers, Tigers and Leopards are the real survivors, just like us Humans and we fear/hate them more than we fear/hate Lions.

Naturally our Lions are our favourites.
 

Sword

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Only "Social" Animals can be tamed, only "Pack" Animals can really be petted and domesticated.

In my view higher appreciation for Lions in comparison to Tigers in our "Royal" literature has got something to do with the fact that Lions being "Social Animals" can be tamed and exhibit a predictable behaviour in captivity while Tigers being "Solitary" cannot be tamed and can pose mortal danger to anything and anybody in their close contact.

For the same reason it is harder to keep a Tiger in captivity compared to Lion. In circuses and in captivity Tigers are more prone to killing their handlers compared to Lions because of Temperament issues. It makes Lions the natural favourites and people will naturally sing praises for the "majestic lions".

Lions are more specialist animals compared to Tigers and Leopards because the later two can survive in a much wider variety of habitats from savannah to arctic.

Lions are majestic animals and good performers, Tigers and Leopards are the real survivors, just like us Humans and we fear/hate them more than we fear/hate Lions.

Naturally our Lions are our favourites.
Lions have survived in a more diverse place, they stem to different continents, and their ancient predassors have transversed every climate change, from cave lions, , leo spalea, leo atrox ect...african lions probably had the most toughest hence they were the only ones to have grown such large manes for battle.

Indian lions are directly linked with the barbary lion, hence they too hold the trait to having extended manes, the current lions of india not so much because of having to inbreed decreased their overall size...but lions of india in the past most likely were larger than tigers of current too.



! Now for the Lion of Kattywar or central Gezerat. In the B. S. M. for July, 1840, is a record of one there slain, of which we read : -——“ This Lion was 9 feet, with flowing mane, and altogether much more bulky than any Tiger 1 have killed
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA221&lpg=PA221&dq=indian+lion+more+bulky+tiger&sig=CWF1DQmSUBpVhcaD-c49nnGHQxw&id=ivtWAAAAcAAJ&ots=NUHBTSwMnx#v=onepage&q=indian lion more bulky tiger&f=false

The account in surat had the hunter also highlight that the tiger when attacked made a shrill sound, this also can be fact checked in proving what he saw:

Historian colemen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Coleman_Bridgman
"The lion, King of beast, occurs in africa, the middle east and north west india. As the power of the han dynasty (206 B.C -220 A.D) extended far into the west, lions began to reach the emperors palace as tribute. When people confined them with tigers and leopards, they were astonished to discover that here was a creature which could subdue the most feared of chinas wild animals, that ferocious maneater, the tiger."

http://www.taiwan-panorama.com/en/show_issue.php?id=199888708122E.TXT&table=2&h1=Art and Culture&h2=Museums



 
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DingDong

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Lions have survived in a more diverse place, they stem to different continents, and their ancient predassors have transversed every climate change, from cave lions, , leo spalea, leo atrox ect...african lions probably had the most toughest hence they were the only ones to have grown such large manes for battle.

Indian lions are directly linked with the barbary lion, hence they too hold the trait to having extended manes, the current lions of india not so much because of having to inbreed decreased their overall size...but lions of india in the past most likely were larger than tigers of current too.



! Now for the Lion of Kattywar or central Gezerat. In the B. S. M. for July, 1840, is a record of one there slain, of which we read : -——“ This Lion was 9 feet, with flowing mane, and altogether much more bulky than any Tiger 1 have killed
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA221&lpg=PA221&dq=indian+lion+more+bulky+tiger&sig=CWF1DQmSUBpVhcaD-c49nnGHQxw&id=ivtWAAAAcAAJ&ots=NUHBTSwMnx#v=onepage&q=indian lion more bulky tiger&f=false

The account in surat had the hunter also highlight that the tiger when attacked made a shrill sound, this also can be fact checked in proving what he saw:

Historian colemen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Coleman_Bridgman
"The lion, King of beast, occurs in africa, the middle east and north west india. As the power of the han dynasty (206 B.C -220 A.D) extended far into the west, lions began to reach the emperors palace as tribute. When people confined them with tigers and leopards, they were astonished to discover that here was a creature which could subdue the most feared of chinas wild animals, that ferocious maneater, the tiger."

http://www.taiwan-panorama.com/en/show_issue.php?id=199888708122E.TXT&table=2&h1=Art and Culture&h2=Museums
Many of these records sound more like fan-boy depictions than reality. Animals raised in captivity have markedly different behaviour compared to those raised in wild, and such difference is really pronounced for solitary animals raised in small enclosures. Hence I won't be surprised to hear a story of a trained dog killing a tiger/leopard raised in captivity.

I won't be surprised to hear a specially trained animal (say a lion/tiger or whatever) killing a "wild" animal because while the trained animal will naturally follow the training and go for fight until death, an animal raised in wild will instinctively try to avoid conflicts and injuries. Fights between near equals in wild rarely if ever result in deaths, such animals will rather avoid one another or will learn to tolerate the presence of one another.

Lions have a greater show value compared to Tigers or Leopards because of their looks, social life and their respect for the owner/handler. Obviously, Lions became favourite animals of the Kings and off course Lions were supposed to "win" all the battles of the animal world.
 

Sword

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Many of these records sound more like fan-boy depictions than reality. Animals raised in captivity have markedly different behaviour compared to those raised in wild, and such difference is really pronounced for solitary animals raised in small enclosures. Hence I won't be surprised to hear a story of a trained dog killing a tiger/leopard raised in captivity.
We can only speculate, clyde beatty stated a captive rasied animal would be the lesser compared to a wild one, but what evidence is there to show those tigers killed were raised there and not brought in as a wild bred animal? Many of the accounts like Puss the leopard killing the tiger Rajah, stated the bengal was imported directly from the wilds of bengal...so again, speculation can go both ways...and captive confinement is depends only on the circumstances, circuses I would think would hold slightly more friendly animals, but zoos or caged ones? In human jails, are these people passive, soft and weak individuals? No, most people in the USAs prisons are at their height of violence and aggression, it doesnt make them lesser than a person out side.


I won't be surprised to hear a specially trained animal (say a lion/tiger or whatever) killing a "wild" animal because while the trained animal will naturally follow the training and go for fight until death, an animal raised in wild will instinctively try to avoid conflicts and injuries. Fights between near equals in wild rarely if ever result in deaths, such animals will rather avoid one another or will learn to tolerate the presence of one another.
That might be true for tigers, but thats only because they dont protect the cubs, they dont protect prides of females and their kin. Lions do, and a tiger crossing paths with a lion will most likely be the end result of a fight to the death, if the tiger doesnt already run off.

Lions have a greater show value compared to Tigers or Leopards because of their looks, social life and their respect for the owner/handler. Obviously, Lions became favourite animals of the Kings and off course Lions were supposed to "win" all the battles of the animal world.
No, lions in general have been the center piece because lions in general are much more abundant, tigers according to every trainer noted, like clyde beatty, bert nelson, terrell jacobs, ect, all stated the tigers are much more valuable in terms money. The lion tuffy was killed just because of him nearly killing a more valuable siberian tiger.

The only thing that there is a trace of fan-boyism, is the comments made trying to de-fame the lions feats, its quite sad that lies and false accusations must be made, how will one ever find out the truth then if one cant even accept the basics? World wide majority of history would know that lions who has a steady base at 420 lbs as average, would have out-shown tigers in almost every culture of the past:


One cant just start cherry picking what tiger, what size, what circumstance just to up-hold individual bias, that doesnt erase history nor can change the present or future. The truth is, tigers in general are smaller, than lions, hence the question world wide wasnt always a bengal who just happened to weigh 857 lbs brought into the question, against a hand picked small lion. Nor does that settle the question of which would win in prime of life, bigges and baddest version of each.

Going by all the records combined, it shows the lion would mostly win against any type of tiger, captive or wild. This has been trialed many times over, and with the most credible records, the lion is the usual victor:

The big cage 1933:






FIGHT 1:

Caesar and bobby:






Already Caesar's jaws had crunched Bobby's neck and when I got there Caesar was shaking Bobby's limp, bloody head and throat from side to side. He was dead.
http://www.google.com/search?q=clyde+beatty+bobby+throat+caesar+&tbm=bks&tbo=1

FIGHT 2:

Tommy and Sultan

We shot the scene without a single rehearsal", beatty said. As usual the director insisted on a rehearsal, but I convinced him the best opportunity for a realistic battle would be when the two animals first met. You simply can't rehearsal a scene like that. Hence the cameramen were ready and the fight was a real one, unfaked... And claw to claw, fang to fang battle between natrual enimies of the cat family proved conclusively that the fighting prowess of the lion is superior to that of the tiger according to beatty the tiger lost the battle after a terrific struggle. We used a untamed tiger for the battle scene because we figured a good fight was a likely to ensue, the trainer continued. That tiger never before been in a cage with a lion.

Nearly a score of movie stars watched the battle and the majority of them bet on the tiger. I had no idea which would win, but I figured sultan had an even chance, though lions are gang fighters and a tiger is supposed to be invinceable in a single-handed battle with almost any animal. My reasons for giving the lion an even chance was that I knew that when one takes a hold with his teeth it is in a vital spot, while a tiger sinks his teeth and hangs on whereever he grabs first. Thats exactly why tommy lost the fight. While the tiger is simply hanging on to a shoulder, the lion was manuvering into position to get his enemys throat, all the while using his blade-like claws to great advantage, from now on I'll bet on the lion.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/76673362

Fight 3:




Clyde beatty used bengals on all 3 fights, males on all 3 fights, and wild ones on all 3 fights, the film shows a splice between all 3 since the tigers didnt last long. Caesar the lion went on to kill 2 more tigers after the film. All the advantages are as stated and proven, this whole size rant cant hold a candle when both are shown in the same shot, the lion is unanimously bigger in size, the tiger is only noted for having a longer tail. Hence when royals for each culture around the world of the past had these animals imported they saw right off the back the lion is more imposing, aggressive, grand and more the worth of being titled King.

No one is trying to defame the tigers capability's, the tiger probably is superior in the clinche and when grabbing each other can use his usual method of over throwing the lion in a wrestle style fashion, the tigers agility has always been noted, but as the people who have observed both, state that is one of the reasons the tiger cant last as long usually expending too much energy with little damage done, the tigers slightly bigger fangs, slightly longer length ect accounts for almost nothing, since the lion has those things and attributed anatomy's the tiger is completely without, via mane. People can speculate all they like about the minuses and alleged flaws of the lion, and talk about minor superior superficial attributes of the tiger, if they dont have the wins, than thats all it is, is empty opinions that mean nothing in the real fight.

The lion is the only one of the two that has the records to back up his testament of him being titled King.
 
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Sword

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^^^ Troll here you go
3.3.6 The Roman Arena Fights (Tigers Were Most Likely Victors)
This is verified from various reputed sources:

”A question often asked the office of the Zoo is, ‘If an adult lion and tiger were to fight, which would win?’ As we try to keep our adult lions and tigers in the Zoo from fighting, we did not know until in the records of the Roman arena we found that the tiger was usually victorious in such a combat …… It (the tiger) was most dreaded of all the beasts that appeared in the arena.” (Page 82, Ref. 20)

” The tiger is a rare jewel in a treasure chest of truly spectacular Indian wildlife. When the ancient Romans set tiger against lion in the coliseum, the tiger invariably won.” (http://www.pbs.org/edens/bhutan/a_tiger.htm)

” The only living creature Nero really loved was Phoebe, a tigress, which put up such a tremendous fight in the arena that he had transferred her to a golden cage in the palace grounds.” (Page 180, Ref. 17).

”Occasionally lions were forced to fight tigers, but apparently the tigers always won.” (Page 287, Ref. 28 ).

”George Stubbs, the most famous and original animal painter of his time who was just reaching his peak in 1759, liked to display combats of lion versus tiger, though he did not commit the egregious mistake of James Ward’s animal pictures painted later in the century where the lion symbolizes Britain and the tiger India; in reality, as we know very clearly from the obscene animal fights staged by the Ancient Romans in the arena, the tiger would win such a fight every time” (Page 163, Ref. 29).

”… ancient Roman arena where lion versus tiger fights were often staged for the gratification of the crowds. In most of these combats the tiger emerged the winner” (Page 75, Ref. 19).
”If we are to believe the records of the old Roman arena, …… during those lusty days, a lion and a tiger were frequently matched …… and in such a combat the tiger usually won” (Page 7, Ref 30).

”Occasional fights were staged between lion and tiger – the tiger always won.” (Page 51, Ref. 35).
“In the time of the Emperor Titus, Tigers and Lions were forced to fight in the Amphitheatre in Rome, and it is recorded by Martial that the Tiger was able to kill the Lion, a fact which has been confirmed by accidental contests occuring between these two animals in modern menageries” (Page 392, Ref 75)
We've covered that already, it even states in all of its sources of the original coming from MARTIALS EPIGRAMS, which I showed, martial him self stated only once, not everytime.

3.3.7 A Collection Of Other Results

3.3.8 Clyde Beatty’s Accounts (Tigers Seem Better Fighters)
[See section 3.2.1 above for more detailed analysis of Beatty’s opinions]
In Beatty’s ‘arena’, as mentioned before, ‘fair’ fights seldom took place since the lions would gang up against solitary tigers. But the following incidents can be taken note of where the fights were ‘fair’ or the outnumbered animal could earn at least a draw. The last one is an unfair fight in which the victim of human intervention was killed:

3.3.8.1 Sumatran tiger vs. seven lions
Sumatran tiger had held his own against at least seven lions.
”At one time it looked as if ten lions were battling Chester” and yet, Chester “emerged with no serious injury” (Page 79, Ref. 27), mentioned elsewhere as “In fact my Sumatra tiger Chester fought off seven lions” (Page 258, Ref. 27).

3.3.8.2 Royal Bengal tiger vs. three-four lions
Bengal tiger whipped three-four lions at the same time.
Rex, a Royal Bengal tiger, was the most dependable cat I have ever trained. He went to greater lengths to avoid a fight than any other lion or tiger I have known. When the issue was forced upon him and there was no escape from a battle, he fought like a demon and usually won. …… Three or four times lions ganged up on such occasions and dragged him down from his roost – and always lived to regret it. For Rex was at his best when the odds were against him” (Page 164, Ref. 7).

3.3.8.5 Tigress vs. several lions
A tigress could rip a lion’s shoulder and escape even when outnumbered by lions.
” Soon I had a free-for-all in the arena involving every one of my lions and two tigers (one was a tigress who was fighting several lions and managed to badly rip the shoulder of a lion)” (Page 68, Ref. 27).

.3.9 Tiger Kills Lion With One Bite
Roman Proske has mentioned a fight in which a tiger had crushed the neck of a lion in one single bite. The lion was a massive black-maned one. The fight wasn’t fair, though. The lion had the advantage of jumping on the back of the tiger to start the fight. Later, the tiger had the advantage when the trainer had poked it on the face with a steel fork. (Page 17, Ref. 54).

3.3.10 Tiger Killed Two Lions
A particularly aggressive tiger has been mentioned in a collection of circus stories. “That (four hundred pound) tiger is a killer. He has murdered four other cat animals, two lions and two tigers” (Page 193, Ref 56).

3.3.12 Tiger Killed A Lion And A Jaguar
“A large savage tiger, named Nana Sahib, had, however, torn down a partition separating it from a fine South American jaguar, which it had attacked and killed by ripping up its abdomen with its claws. The same tiger some years before had killed a full-grown lion in a similar manner” (Page 492, Ref 63)

3.3.13 Tiger Killed A Lion
Ref 64 gives account of a fight between a lion and a tiger in a menagerie in which the tiger made a short work of the lion. But this was not a fair fight as the tiger was in his prime and the lion was past his prime (Page 10, Ref 64).

3.3.14 Tiger And Lion ‘Call It A Draw’
Against the belief that a tiger would try to escape when put into a pit against a lion, “as soon as the tiger perceived the lion, he went directly to him, and struggling with all his might, overthrew him. Everyone thought that the tiger would have little trouble killing his adversary …..” The fight ended with both the animals being wounded, but not mortally (Page 215, Ref 68)

3.3.17 Tiger Kills Lion
Chicago Daily Tribune of Apr 22, 1882, had a news article about a tiger killing a lion incidental to moving a menagerie.
lol Most of those are either clyde beatty, which the whole fight shows the tigers were killed, or repeating what yet again I already exposed, the tiger of king of oude, aka nana sahib from charles jamrachs menagerie.

3.3.19 Tiger Kills Lion With Just A Single Swipe
A March 2011 report says that a Bengal tiger killed a lion with just one swipe of its paw, tearing the jugular vein of the lion. It happened in a zoo in Ankara, Turkey. However, no real ‘fight’ had taken place. There are not sufficient data available to make anything out of this. Only interesting thing is that, a tiger’s paw swipe is strong and accurate enough to tear the jugular of a lion.
lol already showed the zoo, only 2 cubs and a female was there.

More made up cherry picked text, no photos, videos or maximum sizes of lions .That site was already exposed in the very beggining of the very site you ignored:


http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17524&PN=4


Nice lies and repeats, try again, it only showed two accounts (martial and jamrach) added in with roman proskes and saba. lol Awww, so all you have is still 4 accounts? Keep em coming, anyone can read the original source and see they're talking about the same fights. lol Not only did you show that you are the true spammer, but even more funny, you didnt even read what you posted, a true troll. The reason why he didnt link any of them and just stated ref page ---, is because reading it from the original sources they highlight the exact same occasions of the others.
 
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Sword

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Idiot spammer we know our king Ashoka (Our culture&Asiatic Lions) better than you.

Don't insult tigers by comparing with scavenger lions. :p

Enjoy Raja the Gaur hunter medium size tiger.

Ha ha ha, no you dont, you didnt even know that the video was american, you called em british, you didnt even know that tigers on average hunt smaller animals, biologist packer and sunquist showed lions hunted bigger prey than tigers on average, you dident even know that lions are heavier on average, your source from raul was only hand picked tigers on a time frame of 20 years from the largest tigers mentioned from smith, sunquist ect. You didnt even know what the word jungle ment, lol you only linked fan made sources who got it wrong, like the everland korea videos even though the owner and head keeper said the exact opposite, your sources of martial and jamrach were all the same, and all manipulated, none of the originals stated what others decades to centurys later twisted it too.

Youve been exposed on every thing you made, even you calling lions the dumbest shows how hysterically bias and butt hurt you are, I like how you say we, know about ashoka...who the hell is we? lol You dont know anything about these animals, all you did was made a fool out of your self in making up false claims and lies. I bet that leopardess puss would kill that tiger rajah aka the guar calf killer, just the same as she did the last wild male bengal.

example, you mentioned clyde beattys tigresses fought off several lions and chester rant, heres the whole fight of that exact account:

Here’s another remarkable statement he recently made: “I'd rather break in a cat developed in a jungle than one raised in civilization. It is easier to keep a jungle-bred animal in subjection to you than one raised in a zoo where it has been used to people ail its life.



Beatty says the greatest arena battle in his career occurred in collinsville, Pa. in 1929. He followed the usual practice of letting in three tigers to take the high pedestals, and 20 lions and lionesses followed before he himself entered the safety gate. This period, he says, although not realized by the audience, is the high point of the act. The animals mill around in the arena and Beatty’s job as he enters with whip, chair and revolver to take instant, command and seat the animals. After he had formed the living pyramid, he lets in the rest of the tigers. This night he had hardly pyramided the entire group when Snip, a tiger jumped down and tried to get through the gate into the chute leading out of the arena. A lioness jumped off her pedestal upon her, and Duke, a lion, seized the tiger. All the other tigers, except three, jumped to the floor, not so much to join in the fight, as to be ready to escape. The tigers had hardly touched the floor until every lion in the act was after them. The arena was in a uproar, screams of the frightened audience adding to the bedlam. The iron bars of the arena with the conflict.

All except three tigers, were engaged, which, meant twenty lions were fighting nine tigers. The three non-combattant tigers kept their seats and one actually dozed, while the battle raged, although he was known as one of the greatest fighters in circus history. Beatty, trying to work his way to safety, suddenly was attacked by Chester, a tiger, which was at the same time fighting off half a dozen lions. The lions pulled chester down. Beatty knew he was in great danger inside a barred cage with 21 maddend big cats which had completely lost their head: Then a tiger shook itself free and took its seat beside the safety door. Then a lioness quit the fight and took a seat on the other side, then Chester made his decision for the trainer. Shaking loose from the lions, he sprang for Beatty who streaked between the two seated (Continued top next coumn) animals to safety with a scratched arm and a torn shirt to show for his narrow escape from death. Ammonia was loosed and the animals left the arena. That is, all except one tiger that was dead and 1 another that was dying.

~The Cameron Herald 8 April 1943 › Page 15
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...wspapers.com&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

lol, the only reason why the tigers got out alive, was because beatty pumped in ammonia to stop the lions, the tiger chester wasnt holding his own, he wa running for his life abounding onto pedestals and running through them...two tigers was killed in that fight, and no lions died. Thats the difference from getting things by the original, compared to a secondary source who only shows you what he wants you to know. lol

And here it is again, from clyde beattys own, book, not some tiger fan trying to re-write history:



 
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Sword

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^^ spammer

Why you need B.C Ashoka's lion edicts or 19th century British records or 1930's Circus trainers opinion?

Modern Scientific weight records are in-front of you.There average Bengal Tiger has 42 kg weight advantage over average African lion.From Roman era to modern day Korean fights proves Tiger is a superior CAT in all fields.Case closed.Go bark somewhere else. :rofl:
lol You didnt even present 5 accounts yet, all just the same stuff that has been exposed, there was only one roman original, repating even thousands of people who quote martial, still is only just martial saying 1 account. Too bad you just got exposed on beatty too, the only thing is in front of the viewers is, less than 5 accounts of tigers winning 100 years and 2,000 years ago, yet theres over 100+ accounts showed of lions winning...

Must really bother you that house dogs, leopards, wild dogs, bears tigresses and lionesses all have killed male bengal tigers...and that the average tiger is more like 150 kg. XD awwww poor spama-saty....made a complete fool out of your self.

saty says tigers are more aggressive, biologist say:

Biologist George B schaller


Along with other biologist such as Mcdougal and Siedenstickers, it is verified upon there observation of wild tigers more so avoid the others and they are passive/less agressive indicating less of a fighter than the lion:
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab95/boldchamp1/boldchamp/Fightingunusualbetweentigers.jpg

http://books.google.com/books?id=...ha+and+mcdougal+and+seidensticker's+obeservations+in+nepal&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4UngUvm_KZDCoAS0ioCgAw&ved=0CBAQ6AEwAA


Professor Mel Sunquist:


http://www.wec.ufl.edu/faculty/sunquistm/

A key factor stated of bengal tigers by Sunquist's consenses upon studying them in the wild, is that tigers bare'd no scars, indicating fights are rare:
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/.../NoevidenceoffightingfoundinChitwantigers.jpg

Even more so being solitary, the tiger cannot afford to get injured, while the lion being social can rely on his Pride to nurse him back to health, indicating one animal will be more passive (The tiger), while the lion will be more agressive:
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/...ittleevidenceoffightingfoundbetweentigers.jpg

The person you showed who had the tiger weights, is still to funny...theres no 42 kg weight advantage...that same person raul got one of the record tigers from, was Mel sunqueist (it states right on the graph), and heres what sunquesit stated about weights:


lol goes to show raul and you dont know the concept of cherry-picking. That source s not published on any scientific acadmia just a personal fan made graph...non-science excepted for either or as the modern average.

Bhim Singh:

A lion is a more formidable foe than a tiger, who, after all, is a cowardly beast.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=b...n+is+a+more+formidable+foe+than+a+tiger,"+had

Only in 1972 was the tiger declared Indias national animal at last replacing the lion that was ruled so meaninglessly for more than 2,000 years.

~Forster and Further By: Sujit Mukherjee

http://books.google.com/books?id=...YbmiwLq2oDQDQ&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ

Your source on the romans, which discredited george stubbs, was because of a bias towards his art:



Mclean, the british guy talking BS about stubbs, unlike george stubbs who actually went to rome and studied the artifacts there:

Another mosaic in the House of the Faun , now badly damaged, showed a lion
standing over a prostrate tiger.


https://books.google.com/books?id=vt9JwsNcKzwC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=lion+tiger+faun&source=bl&ots=isc59w57MT&sig=EYFviHdwZOCiZa-eQuPmGwQcEbc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_g4PUNLlJaf5iwLPuYHgDw&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=lion tiger faun&f=false

lol Roman


This Exhibition was organized by the Napoleonic authorities in the Capitol in Rome.

Born in Bohemia, Johan Wenzel Peter made his artistic career in Rome. There, he became the most popular animalist painter of his time. In the villa Borghese he painted frescoes of over 160 animals and participated in the decoration of Palazzo Chigi and Palazzo Altieri. At the beginning of the XIXth century, Peter enjoyed an international fame. After his death, pope Gregory XVI purchased eleven works still in his workshop, among which was the monumental Garden of Eden (Vatican Museums)



(Carl Borromäus Andreas Ruthart)
Died in Rome L’Aqulia Born in the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, Carl Borromäus Andreas Ruthart travelled to Italy very early on. His trace can be found in Rome and Venice between 1652 and 1659. After finishing his apprenticeship, he came to work in Antwerp in order to perfect his knowledge.


(Lion defeating tiger in combat~Royal Emperyium of Rome)
Copper engraving by the well listed Italian artist Pietro Aquila (1650-1692 Rome).

tigers running from the lions left corner roman
http://s19.postimg.org/fh60i6w5v/image.jpg
(* Triumph of Faith - Christian martyrs in the time of Nero, 65 AD. *)

Rabbi Ken Spiro

Jewish remnet's preserved scripture's translated to English on a history of Rome through the jewish eye's...

“Next, the arena was lowered to feature combat between them as lions tore apart tigers, an went up against bears, croc’s leopards against wolves. It goes without saying that the Romans had never heard of animal rights.”

As a rabbi, he paid particular attention to how Judaism impacted, and was influenced by, the course of these developments. The result is a highly readable and well-documented book about the origins of values and virtues in Western civilization as influenced by the Greeks, Romans, Christians, Muslims and, most significantly, the Jews.

~Ken Spiro; WorldPerfect Simcha Press, Sep 1, 2002 - 400 pages
http://kenspiro.com/articles.php
 
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Sword

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Modern 20th century Science and Experts:

Animal face off:


The cast of lion vs tiger animal face off:

Frank mendel:



Scott H woodward


"There were other stuff that they did not show," said Woodward. "It was inappropriate though, it was some old footage where they threw a tiger and a lion into a pit. The lion was more dominant while the tiger just gave up. None of the cats were interested in finishing the other off."

In addition to Mendel and Woodward, the UB team developing the Vertebrate Analyzer includes Kevin Chugh, Ph.D., NYSCEDII research associate for visualization; Kevin Hulme, Ph.D., NYSCEDII's research associate for engineering design; Venkat Krovi, Ph.D., assistant professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering; David R. Pendergast, Ph.D., professor of physiology and biophysics, and Abani Patra, Ph.D., associate professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering.
http://www.ubspectrum.com/article/2...e-to-analyzing-a-catfight-of-epic-proportions

Samantha Stephens



A Zoologist from New Zealand for Animal Planet, said:

"A male lion spends the first 4 years of its life just developing him self into a fighting machine, its his whole focus fighting to take over a pride, defending it for others." Dave Salmoni a tiger guy, later agreed with her.


David salmoni


He's a zoologist, a renowned animal trainer, a television presenter and a producer with his own South Africa-based production company, his love for animals. In 1998, Salmoni began his apprenticeship as an animal trainer at Bowmanville Zoological Park near Toronto, one of the world's largest humane-credited providers of highly trained animals. Salmoni focused on large cat training and has been training large cats as well as other predators since then.Salmoni was offered a life-changing opportunity to be the first to travel with two captive-bred Bengal tigers to Africa and train them how to hunt and survive in the wild. Following this experience, Salmoni lived among African lions for three months in an attempt to show that lions and humans can co exsist in the same area.

David salmoni says:

He’d give the edge to a lion in a fight with a tiger, even with a 150 lb advantage.

and..

“To get a tiger to want to fight you is pretty hard,” says Salmoni. “Tigers don’t like to fight. They hunt to kill and eat. That’s it.” Unlike lions, which grow up in groups and are used to sparring, tigers are solitary animals, responsible for their own food and survival, Salmoni says. They will take the risk to fight only “if they feel they have to.

http://animal.discovery.com/tv/af...ck/dave-salmoni/dave-salmoni.html


Isabell Thomas


Each book in this high-interest series compares two exciting animals and looks at how they are equipped to survive and defend themselves against predators in the wild. Each spread focuses on one particular aspect of the animals, such as teeth, claws, speed, endurance, camouflage, habitat, predator/prey relationships, or hunting techniques.

http://books.google.com/books?id=...amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

Elizabeth marshall thomas



One of the most widely read American anthropologists, Elizabeth Marshall Thomas has observed dogs, cats, and elephants during her half-century-long career. Her book on cats, Tribe of Tiger, was also an international bestseller. She lives in Peterborough, New Hampshire, on her family's former farm, where she observes deer, bobcats, bear, and many other species of wildlife.

Marshall says:

"In contrast, these same tigers--even the biggest and feircest of them all seemed in mortal fear of a certain lion who belonged to another trainer but was sometimes quarted with them. Never did these tigers and his lion get into the ring together, yet the mere presence of the lion in the tiger barn could get the tigers bouncing off the walls of their cages."
http://books.google.com/books?id=...cWdiALksoGgDg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA

Dr. Antle Bhagavan of Big Cat Rescue


"You gotta have mild-mannered lions and tigers," Antle said. "Normally the lion will kill the tigers. "These are just some of my observations over the last 24 years as I have trained some 400 big cats and met hundreds more. By big cats, I only mean the Panthera family (lions, tigers, leopard, jaguars and hybrids) all the rest are in a different category and the small cats (including cheetah and pumas) are in a different class. "They will kill you, but it is not with the same intent and aggressive behavior. Male lions are 100 times harder to train than tigers.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/item_Clr5RjvqTpoGGwtFpwLOPN
http://www.rexano.org/Responsible...bandry/big_cat_training_Frame.htm
 

Sword

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Already mentioned in 3rd page delete or restrict this psycho spammer.From past 300 years British/Some religious gays/Tourism industry/some lion fanatics propagated Lions are the 'Kings of the Jungle' and easily defeats cunning coward Tigers :p.

But thanks to internet from last 10 years
(by polling 66%) majority are slowly realized Tiger has 42+kg weight advantage+Smarter+Quicker+Long canines+Long Jaws+High&Long Jumping capacity and so on favors the Tiger.

So these idiots don't have any option except SPAMMING.
what polling?...you mean ones like this:

http://www.bigcats.com/viewersurvey.php?id=0000000004&response=1

They probably were all british. lol
 
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