The Taiwan Issue: 85% Taiwanese do not want to join China

Martian

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Blood is thicker than water

GeoffreyRoyanGJ said:
Its sort of like Koreans right[?] a geographical and Ideological boundary separates other wise they one and the same, right?? or have i got some thing wrong??
You are absolutely correct. Regardless of an imaginary line on a map, Koreans are Koreans and Hans are Hans. For example, the Hans in Hong Kong returned to the motherland in 1997 under the "one country, two systems" 50-year agreement.

The divided Korean peninsula and a divided China across the Taiwan Strait are both vestiges of the Cold War. I would be surprised if both of these unsettled issues from the Cold War are not resolved within 50 years.

It is ironic that Vietnam was unified during the Cold War, but it resulted in a poor nation. On the other hand, China, Taiwan, and South Korea are growing richer year after year. Shanghai, Taipei, and Seoul are examples of the growing wealth.

The North Koreans have no one to blame except themselves. They chose to isolate themselves from the world in the tradition of the Hermit Kingdom. However, I expect the North Koreans to catch-up quickly to the modern world after they choose to open up their country. China (e.g. North Korea's benefactor) and South Korea (e.g. fellow Koreans) will both help North Korea to modernize.

Whether it is a reunified America after the Civil War, reunified Vietnam, or reunified Germany, history has shown that it is difficult to keep a people separate for very long. China and Taiwan will reunify when the U.S. relents in its objection, China's relative power to the U.S. passes a critical point, or China simply gets tired of waiting and calls the American bluff to defend Taiwan by triggering a military crisis in October 2049 (e.g. 100th anniversary of New China).

The Koreans can reunify whenever the North Koreans stop being paranoid (or the South Koreans offer the ruling Kim Jong-Il's family a sufficiently sweet deal with guarantees) and South Korea is willing to pay the majority of the massive cost (e.g. on the order of a trillion dollars; approximately the cost for German reunification) for rebuilding North Korea.
 

Martian

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Taiwan Lantern Festival in HD

The Lantern Festival is an example of the shared traditions of all Hans. As a child of four or five years old, I carried my own little red lantern among a large group of children walking in a single file during the night.

The shared experiences and innumerable similarities (e.g. even most Han names come from a very limited pool) bind all Hans together everywhere, including the brethren in Singapore. While Singapore is an independent country, Singaporeans will always occupy a special status as fellow Hans.

Please make sure to select 720p in the bottom right-hand corner. It is far clearer than 480p.
 
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Martian

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Beautiful Hong Kong

Let's take a look at today's Hong Kong under the "one country, two systems" structure.

Please make sure to select 720p in the bottom right-hand corner. It is far clearer than 480p.
 
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Martian

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Cruise on the Love River

The following video illustrates the reason that Taiwanese are reluctant to make an abrupt political change. Life is very pleasant. Why rock the boat? Therefore, reunification must be a gradual process.

Let's take a video-cruise along the Ai (i.e. Love) River in Kaohsiung, Taiwan.

Please make sure to select 720p in the bottom right-hand corner. It is far clearer than 480p.
 
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tony4562

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Not sure when taiwan will reunite with mainland. However as a mainlander I don't want to see it happen anytime soon, at least not before CCP steps down, how long it might take.
 

Martian

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Why is China giving Taiwan some space?

Why is China giving Taiwan some space - By Nicholas Consonery | The Call

"Why is China giving Taiwan some space?
Posted By Ian Bremmer Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 11:24 AM



By Nicholas Consonery

Last week, in a major policy shift, Chinese officials gave Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou and his ruling Kuomintang (KMT) party a big victory by signaling that China will not block Taiwan's trade negotiations with Singapore. In the past, Beijing has used heavy diplomatic pressure to block all but five of the island's potential bilateral trade agreements as part of a long-term campaign to limit Taiwan's global recognition.

What's more, the Ma administration appears convinced that Beijing will allow them to pursue trade agreements with other Southeast Asian governments in the months and years ahead. Malaysia, Thailand and the Philippines are the likeliest partners. Officials in Taipei also announced last week that they're pursuing an investment agreement with Tokyo that they hope will produce a trade agreement down the road. A higher level of economic integration with the broader Asian economy will encourage domestic restructuring in Taiwan and will boost the island's exports -- and therefore its economic strength. And all with Beijing's blessing.

What's going on here?

The Chinese government is looking for ways to bolster support within Taiwan for Ma and the KMT -- and, by extension, for the current direction of cross -- Strait relations. Ma's government has moved Taiwan toward ever-closer economic integration with the mainland and is probing the political implications of this integration. But Beijing is aware that skepticism of the mainland's intentions remains strong in Taiwan, and that Ma must avoid being cast as overly solicitous of Beijing.

That said, a major driver of Beijing's approach is a trend I laid out on this blog last year: Beijing is seeking to avoid steps that create opportunities for Taiwan's major opposition party -- the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) -- and is working hard to avoid any risk of a DPP resurgence. The Chinese leadership does not want to revisit the lows reached during the presidency of former DPP head Chen Shui-bian in Taiwan.

Beijing is playing this game deftly. For the past year, Ma has promised Taiwanese voters that he would boost Taiwan's international profile by signing the controversial Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement (ECFA) with China, a deal he said would open the door to trade agreements with other countries. If Beijing had pressured Singapore to back away from these negotiations with Taiwan after ECFA, it would not only have raised Taiwanese ire toward Beijing -- it would have inflicted serious harm on Ma's domestic credibility and strengthened DPP arguments that Taiwan should simply go it alone.

Beijing has made clear that any potential trade agreement must acknowledge the "One China" policy, a caveat that suggests the agreements will be pitched as economic cooperation pacts rather than formal free trade agreements between countries. Beijing will also insist that the agreement refer to Taiwan as something other than Taiwan. Taiwanese officials have already acknowledged this necessity. The joint statement from Taiwan and Singapore announcing the deal referred to Taiwan as the "Separate Customs Territory of Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen and Matsu," the title with which Taiwan was recognized by the World Trade Organization and the GATT.

For their part, DPP officials are arguing that Ma's willingness to compromise on the names undermines Taiwanese sovereignty.

A portion of the Taiwanese electorate will have their chance to decide who's right during five upcoming mayoral elections on November 27. The outcomes will be cast as an important indicator of popular support for Ma, foreshadowing his own reelection prospects in 2012 -- and the shape of things to come for cross -- Strait relations.

Nicholas Consonery is an Asia analyst with Eurasia Group."
 

neo29

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China is just shit scared to see Vietnam, SK, Taiwan joining hands with US. It will do everything possible to be friendly with these countries especially Taiwan to keep US away from the South China sea.
 

Martian

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Strong vs. the weak

Author: mr. bean
Date: 09-08-10 02:48

Beijing is doing so because it is dealing from a position of strength. The strong/big brother can let the little brother have more leeway. There is no way Taipei can compete with Beijing anymore. The competition is pretty much over (except a few niches) so mainland can give more to help a KMT leadership under Ma Yingjeou.

The men in Beijing always look at the long term & think strategic so a revitalized tw ultimately benefits the whole china. This giving space to tw is like killing several birds with 1 stone. It benefits the Ma/KMT administration in revitalizing tw's economy thus strengthening their rule. It hits at the DPP & hopefully shatters their dream for coming back to office 2012. It is also another step in pulling tw economy into the Chinese economic orbit.

But note that even as if mainland gives tw greater space and concessions, the DWARF TAIWAN strategy has not slowed down but intensified! For the mainland, this is just a warm up. The game has not even started yet.
That is a very impressive analysis. I especially like the reference to the "DWARF TAIWAN" strategy. Let's make Taiwan feel a little smaller. :)
 
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Martian

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China Focus: Taiwan seeks to join northeast Asian economy

Most Taiwanese enjoy a comfortable life. They would not want to relinquish their lifestyle. Now that the Mainland is Taiwan's largest trade partner, Taiwan will become increasingly vulnerable to the threat of the imposition of economic sanctions.

The U.S. wields the stick of sanctions against smaller countries all the time (e.g. witness the current campaign against Iran). On purely economic grounds, it may be fanciful to discuss a Taiwanese independence movement. China could probably crash Taiwan's economy through massive economic sanctions if it wished. Realistically, Taiwan's economic fate lies increasingly in China's hands.

China Focus: Taiwan seeks to join northeast Asian economy | NewsyStocks.com

"China Focus: Taiwan seeks to join northeast Asian economy
Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:11 PM

CHANGCHUN, Sep. 5, 2010 (Xinhua News Agency) -- While northeast Asian economies have stepped up their cooperation in recent years, Taiwan, a smaller economic player, is trying to integrate into the fast-growing region to expand its presence and gain more benefits.

From ultra-thin laptops and 3D projectors to barbecue sauce and milk tea, almost every kind of product displayed by Taiwan attracted attention at the 6th China Jilin Northeast Asia Investment and Trade Expo.

Taiwanese entrepreneurs at the expo said they would increase their investments and further expand their businesses on the Chinese mainland as it has the world's largest market and great growth potential.

Taiwan Haw-Di-I Foods Co., the largest barbecue sauce producer on the island, attended the expo for their second year.

Wei-Te Lee, sales manager of the company's mainland operations, said the company prepared 100,000 yuan (14,705.88 U.S. dollars) of sauce for last year's expo and it only took 5 days to sell out.

"We brought 200,000 yuan of goods with us this time. And sales have exceeded 110,000 yuan during the first two days of the expo," Lee said.

Li Suping, a 57-year-old Changchun resident, bought three bottles of barbecue sauce at the company's stall.

"It's yummy. I'll recommend it to my friends and relatives," she said.

"I could feel that consumers here really like our products," Wei-Te Lee said, adding that the company would continue its localization strategy to target products to the mainland consumers.

Haw-Di-I Foods Co. 2009 mainland sales doubled from one year earlier to 6 million yuan, and sales for this year were expected to hit 9 million yuan, he said.

The company was also considering building a factory on the mainland, he added.

Lee, who was born in Taiwan but now lives in Shanghai said, as a person familiar with both Taiwan and mainland, he was sure that the mainland is vital to Taiwan's future economic development as it has already become Taiwan's largest investment destination and also home to a growing number of Taiwan businessmen.

Taiwan's economy grew at a rate of 13.1 percent in the first half of the year, partly fueled by increased exports to the mainland, which has surpassed the United States to become the island's largest trading partner.

Taiwan and the mainland deepened economic ties in recent years, removing many barriers to cross-strait trade and investment.

The two sides signed the Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement (ECFA) in June, under which the mainland would reduce tariffs on 539 Taiwan-produced goods worth 13.83 billion U.S. dollars, accounting for 16.1 percent of Taiwan's exports to the mainland, while the island would reduce tariffs on 267 mainland goods worth 2.86 billion U.S. dollars, accounting for 10.5 percent of mainland exports to Taiwan.

"I believe the signing of such agreements and attending expos will help Taiwan integrate more with the regional economy," said Chih-Kang Wang, president of Taipei World Trade Center, a trade promotion body.

Taiwan businesses displaying products jumped to 306 at the ongoing expo, from 158 last year, showing that increasing numbers of Taiwan firms are looking to northeast Asia as potential markets.

"The expo provides opportunities for Taiwan firms to seek cooperation with their Japanese, Russian and Korean counterparts and also helps them enter the burgeoning markets," Wang said.

The five-day expo began Thursday in Changchun, northeast China's Jilin Province, attracting 50,000 businessmen from home and abroad, including those from 110 of the world's top 500 companies."
 

Martian

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Taiwan challenge to Korea, Japan

Sampanviking said:
Actually I see the Free Trade agreements between ASEAN countries and ROC as a part of a wider hedge against possible Protectionism and Containment by the West. Now the FTA agreement exists across the Straits further agreements with Taiwan also benefit the PRC

If the West tries to use such measure against the PRC, it retains a backdoor against them through Taiwan which will continue to channel Goods and Investment. This is win win as if the West were to try and block this route by including Taiwan in the same "Containment" regime, it is a tacit acknowledgement of reunification in all but name.
I fully agree with you that China has a very sophisticated strategy to blunt the potential threat of "protectionism and containment by the West." Firstly, China signed a Free Trade Agreement (i.e. FTA) with ASEAN. ASEAN exports to China overlap with some Taiwanese agricultural exports. This spurred Taiwan to sign an ECFA (e.g. effectively a FTA) with Mainland China. The Koreans and Japanese are now worried that the ECFA will give Taiwanese LCD, electronics, and semiconductor manufacturers an "unfair" advantage in the vast China market.

China is in the process of pulling ASEAN (e.g. CAFTA or China-ASEAN FTA), Taiwan (e.g. ECFA), Korea, and Japan into a giant Asian Trade Bloc. Attempts at protectionism or containment of China will not work. The Asian Trade Bloc is roughly equivalent in nominal GDP to NAFTA (e.g. U.S., Canada, and Mexico) and it is growing at a far faster rate.

Asia Times Online :: China News, China Business News, Taiwan and Hong Kong News and Business.

"Taiwan challenge to Korea, Japan
By Jens Kastner
Jul 22, 2010

TAIPEI - The recent signing of the Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement (ECFA) between Taipei and Beijing has put South Korea and Japan in an unfavorable position. Through tariff exceptions and reductions, Taiwanese businesses are to enjoy more advantages in the huge mainland market compared with their Korean and Japanese counterparts.

The issue has become more prominent due to still sluggish demand from United States and European Union markets. Since a high percentage of Korean and a considerable share of Japanese exports to China overlap with those from Taiwan, Tokyo and Seoul are afraid of losing their competitive edge.

As Korean businessmen are pressuring their government to sign its own free-trade agreement (FTA) with China, Japanese companies see Taiwan as a short-cut to the mainland Chinese market. The formula is simple: the Japanese side establishes joint ventures in Taiwan to produce goods on the island and thus enjoys the same preferential treatment in China as fully owned Taiwanese companies.

Japanese companies from sectors as various as consumer electronics, semiconductors, optoelectronics, solar cells, machine tools, comics and e-books have reportedly been seeking to get a foothold in Taiwan with the objective of getting easier access to the Chinese mainland market.

Although there are a number of ways Japanese companies could take advantage of Taiwan's new position under the ECFA, the establishment of joint ventures is the most promising. With the help of these, Japanese businesses will be able to benefit from the ECFA just like any native Taiwanese company as soon as the ECFA comes into force in January 2011. By contrast, it would take at least three years before a fully Japanese-owned venture that operates from Taiwan would be allowed to penetrate the mainland market.

Apart from the tariff exceptions and reductions Japanese companies strive to take advantage of, there are other reasons that make Taiwan a closer trading ally for Japan than it has been. Recent labor protests at Japanese-invested factories on the mainland cast increased doubts among the Japanese whether China, the so-called factory of the world, will continue being a good choice for Japanese investments. A significant rise in Chinese labor costs is expected. Widespread anti-Japanese resentment in the mainland also frightens Japanese expatriates and their families residing there, while living conditions and other social factors can make Taiwan appear more appealing.

Last but not least, Taiwan's bureaucracy is seen as far less prone to corruption than China's. Transparency International's 2009 Corruption Index puts Taiwan in 37th place, well ahead of China's ranking of 79.

Japanese businesses establishing links in Taiwan may also help them to compete better with their Korean counterparts.

"South Korea is Japan's first and foremost trade rival, not Taiwan," Liou To-hai, professor of diplomacy at Taiwan's National Chenchi University and Director of the Center for WTO Studies, told Asia Times Online. "By establishing joint ventures with Taiwanese companies, Japan gains advantages in competing with South Korea."

Viewed from a security angle, however, the picture is different. South Korea and Japan - the US's main military allies in the region - should work on a Japan-Korea FTA first before thinking of negotiating on bilateral pacts with others, said Liou. One hindrance is the trade imbalance between the two countries. "The main obstacle a Japan-Korea FTA faces is Korea's trade deficit with Japan," Liou said.

The deficit that has been growing rapidly since 2004 due to imports of high-technology parts for Korea's manufacturing sector and increased tourism to Japan.

China replaced the US as Japan's biggest export destination in 2008, two years after becoming the top destination for Korean goods.

The leaders of China, Japan and Korea agreed in 2002 on undertaking non-governmental academic research
on setting up a regional free trade zone. In-depth studies dragged on until 2009, and when China and Taiwan began negotiating on the ECFA, the China-Japan-Korea trade talks fell back as a priority for Beijing.

After the signing of ECFA, the absence of an FTA between Korea and China is believed to be hurting Korean businesses in particular since 14 of Korea's 20 key export items already faced competition from Taiwanese goods, according to the Korea International Trade Association.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak has been coming under pressure from his country's business groups to remedy the situation since shortly before the ECFA was signed. The demands from various corners of Korea's economic landscape come in unison: The negative impact from the China-Taiwan ECFA must be minimized by signing a Korea-China FTA as soon as possible.


This, however, is a complex task, given that a proposal to establish a US-Korea FTA keeps sticking in the US Congress over sensitive issues in the auto sector.

According to Liou, President Lee's hands are tied because the issues of a China-Korea FTA and the US-Korean FTA are related. "Although Lee is nervous and eager to sign an FTA with China, he couldn't possibly do so before the US-Korea FTA has been approved, since otherwise he would hurt his country's strategically vital relation with the US," said Liou.

In Japan, at least, many companies have decided not to wait for their government to hammer out favorable deals with China. To the Japanese businessmen, the Taiwan-Japan joint-venture concept is the most promising option and are finding support in the media.

"Japanese commentators recommend that Japan sign an FTA with Taiwan and the US first, before they start negotiating with Beijing," he said.

Jens Kastner is a Taipei-based writer."
 

Rage

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We need to get our dear friend Martian in on this.
 

Daredevil

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Dah nothing but propaganda. 105% of Taiwanese want to reunite.
What is surprising is that this report is coming from the news network of pro-chinese KMT incumbent party. And another point to note is that people who don't want to join mainland China has gone up from 70% in 2006 to 85% in 2010. This is all contrary to what our chinese members claims of Taiwanese people wanting to join China.
 
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If China was not able to reunite with Taiwan during this world economic crisis;they can forget ever reuniting it's just a pipe dream.
 

amoy

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Actually, after a second thought I'm for Taiwan's self determination.

Someday a referendum shall be allowed to decide where to go, just like I'm always in favour of self determination by people of Kashmir, Assam, Bodoland, Sikkim and... galore

Let's wait and see what people there will cast their ballot for if they get the chance ...

And more - Kosovo, Chechenia... Vive la Liberty!
 

Daredevil

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Actually, after a second thought I'm for Taiwan's self determination.

Someday a referendum shall be allowed to decide where to go, just like I'm always in favour of self determination by people of Kashmir, Assam, Bodoland, Sikkim and... galore

Let's wait and see what people there will cast their ballot for if they get the chance ...

And more - Kosovo, Chechenia... Vive la Liberty!
What is there for Taiwan to self-determine. It is under their own control not under China's control. So, your talk about self-determinism with regards to Taiwan is laughable. And don't bring off-topic here just stick to Taiwan issue.
 

Rage

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Actually, after a second thought I'm for Taiwan's self determination.

Someday a referendum shall be allowed to decide where to go, just like I'm always in favour of self determination by people of Kashmir, Assam, Bodoland, Sikkim and... galore

Let's wait and see what people there will cast their ballot for if they get the chance ...

And more - Kosovo, Chechenia... Vive la Liberty!
If you 'count on' the 'self-determination' of Assam, Bodo, Sikkim, and galore....so may we one day count on the self-determination of Tibet.
 
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East Turkmenistan another place where the chinese have committed genocide will reignite in the future this time we need to side with turkey and the islamic world in condeming the genocide by china
 

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