The Syrian Crisis

[tramp]

Syria Rejects 'Expanded' UN Chemical Weapons Probe - Agency​

Syrian authorities reject an "additional demand" by the UN to let its investigative mission to operate across the entire Syrian territory, the state-run Syrian news agency SANA reported on Monday in its Russian-language section.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said on March 21 that the United Nations will open an independent investigation into the alleged chemical weapons attack in Syria as soon as possible.

However, later Ban Ki-moon moved to broaden the mandate of the mission in an effort to set as its task the investigation of all other alleged cases of chemical weapons use in Syria.

The agency quoted a foreign ministry official as saying that "Syria expresses its regrets in connection with the recent statement by the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, who openly yielded to pressure by certain states who support the bloodshed among Syrians."

Syria's authorities accused opposition militants of deploying chemical weapons in an attack near the northern city of Aleppo on March 19 that state media reports claimed at least 25 lives and seriously injured more than 100. The rebels have denied the allegation and instead accused the Syrian military of launching a Scud missile with a chemical warhead.

Syria Rejects 'Expanded' UN Chemical Weapons Probe - Agency | World | RIA Novosti

Deja vu? Iraq?

 

[Singh]

Alevites are going to be slaughtered. Has turkey agreed to give them refuge ?


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[nrupatunga]

Alevites are going to be slaughtered. Has turkey agreed to give them refuge ?

Singh: i suppose you meant alawis not alevi's.

Alawis and alevis are different people. Though majority of both follow some sort of shia principles. Alawi's are mainly found in syria, whereas alevis mainly reside in turkey.

Alawis - Wikipedia.
Alevis - Wikipedia

 

[tramp]

Singh: i suppose you meant alawis not alevi's.

Alawis and alevis are different people. Though majority of both follow some sort of shia principles. Alawi's are mainly found in syria, whereas alevis mainly reside in turkey.

Alawis - Wikipedia.
Alevis - Wikipedia

Alawites are a Shia tribe to which Al Assad belongs. They rule over a predominantly Sunni Arab population. Sunnis believe being the heirs to the Caliphate they have a right to rule. That is why there is huge problem wherever they are near 50%. Saudis support any government take over move by Sunnis all around the world.

 

[Singh]

Singh: i suppose you meant alawis not alevi's.

Alawis and alevis are different people. Though majority of both follow some sort of shia principles. Alawi's are mainly found in syria, whereas alevis mainly reside in turkey.

Alawis - Wikipedia.
Alevis - Wikipedia

Yes you are right. Easy to get confused into Alevi vs Alawi debate.

But whats Turkey stand on Alawites ?

Syria has majority Sunni while Alawaites held power.
Alevis and Iran will support them ?


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[tramp]

Yes you are right. Easy to get confused into Alevi vs Alawi debate.

But whats Turkey stand on Alawites ?

Syria has majority Sunni while Alawaites held power.
Alevis and Iran will support them ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Iran is the principal benefactor of all Shias! Whether they are rulers over Sunni majority (Syria) or subjects (Bahrain) ruled by Sunni majority. That is a historical conundrum.

 

[nrupatunga]

Iraqi al-Qaeda and Syria militants announce formal merger

Al-Qaeda's branch in Iraq said it has merged with Syria's extremist Jabhat al-Nusra, a move that shows the rising confidence of radicals within the Syrian rebel movement.

The Iraqi wing of al-Qaeda announced on Tuesday that Nusra was now its Syrian branch and the two groups would operate under one name -- the Islamic State in Iraq.

The sooner gcc is made defunct and powerless, the greater the chance for peace. Gcc is tryin to fcuk the whole region and thus affect entire asia.

Another important point in the article is

Baghdad officials said last week they have requested U.S. drone strikes against the fighters in Iraqi territory. A U.S. official confirmed that elements within the Iraqi government had inquired about drone strikes. But the official said the U.S. was waiting to respond until the top level of Iraqi leadership makes a formal request, which has not happened yet.

 

[tramp]

Iraqi al-Qaeda and Syria militants announce formal merger


The sooner gcc is made defunct and powerless, the greater the chance for peace. Gcc is tryin to fcuk the whole region and thus affect entire asia.

Another important point in the article is

So long as Sauds are in power in Saudi Arabia, no chance of GCC withering away.
Saudi Arabia is the primary target of Al Qaida, if you know history. Bin Laden's anger against US was provoked by its support to Saudi Arabia. All this talk about the Great Satan was nothing but an eyewash to cloak his design to grab the Saudi throne. Bin Laden wanted to take over Saudi Arabia for the moral authority it would have given him as Custodian of the Two Mosques.... Meccan and Medina.
Al Qaida always tried to set up shop in areas close to Saudi Arabia from where they could launch an offensive on Saudi Arabia. Yemen is the best base for them. Iraq he tried but Saddam kept him out. Once he fell, there was no chance because of the majority Shias.
Gaddafi also kept out Bin Laden, but it is ripe for Al Qaida takeover now. Even Egypt could see Al Qaida assault.

 

[arnabmit]

US supporting Syria rebels will be in a dilemma now.

Kill AQ in Af'stan & indirectly support AQ in Syria.

Iraqi al-Qaeda and Syria militants announce formal merger


The sooner gcc is made defunct and powerless, the greater the chance for peace. Gcc is tryin to fcuk the whole region and thus affect entire asia.

Another important point in the article is

 

[nrupatunga]

@tramp Whatever differences radicals and saudis have, there are not big. Saudis have successfully turned all radicals to fight outside of arabia. Everyone is trying to be leaders of ummah (even pakis) by showing who is more pious. But the current scenario (iraq/syria), its mainly the creation of gcc to undercut iran in the region.

Whoever comes to position will do same things, is there any difference as to who is leader. Everyone's common goal is sharia i.e. return to 7th century.

 

[nrupatunga]

No one will even look at saudi+(even with $$$) if traditional leaders of region like iraq/egypt gain their former status. What was the status of this gcc folks in 60s, 70s among ummah. Did anyone look upon these folks for leadership??

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Libyan arms fueling warfare in Syria, Mali, Gaza Strip – UN report — RT News

Arms out of post-Gaddafi Libya are empowering militant groups, including terrorists and criminal gangs across the Middle East and Africa, a UN report said. Twelve countries are involved in the illicit trade of weapons, including portable SAM missiles.

Eighteen months after the civilian conflict and NATO bombing campaign ousted longtime Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi, most of the weapons in the country remain in control of civilians and militias, according to a UN Security Council report. The trafficking of those arms is both a lucrative business and a major security threat to the entire region, the report revealed.

"In the past 12 months, the proliferation of weapons from Libya has continued at a worrying rate and has spread into new territory: West Africa, the Levant and, potentially, even the Horn of Africa," the panel said. "Illicit flows from the country are fueling existing conflicts in Africa and the Levant and enriching the arsenals of a range of non-state actors, including terrorist groups."

The recipients are empowered not only by the sheer number of new arms in their possession, but also by new kinds of weapons.

"Cases, both proven and under investigation, of illicit transfers from Libya in violation of the embargo cover more than 12 countries and include heavy and light weapons, including man-portable air defense systems, small arms and related ammunition and explosives and mines," experts wrote in the 94-page report.

Many different sources for this:

UN: Libya Arms Traffic 'Alarming'

UN panel: Libyan weapons spread at alarming rate | Nation & World | The Seattle Times

Libya arms fueling conflicts in Syria, Mali and beyond: U.N. experts | Reuters

The Libya-Syria connection is the reason why Obama and H. Clinton covered up the reason behind the deaths of US ambassador and others in Benghazi.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/10/w...lty-figures-in-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Using the simplest, cheapest Internet technology available, Mr. Abdul Rahman spends virtually every waking minute tracking the war in Syria, disseminating bursts of information about the fighting and the death toll. What began as sporadic, rudimentary e-mails about protests early in the uprising has swelled into a torrent of statistics and details.

All sides in the conflict accuse him of bias, and even he acknowledges that the truth can be elusive on Syria's tangled and bitter battlefields. That, he says, is what prompts him to keep a tight leash on his operation.

"I need to control everything myself," said Mr. Abdul Rahman, a bald, bearish, affable man. "I am a simple citizen from a simple family who has managed to accomplish something huge using simple means — all because I really believe in what I am doing."

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Opinion: Syria rebel group's dangerous tie to al Qaeda - CNN.com

On Tuesday, al Qaeda's affiliate in Iraq announced that it had merged with the Syrian opposition group Jabhat al-Nusra to form the "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant."

The announcement came in the form of an audio message from the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, Sheikh Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, that was distributed to key jihadist websites.

The merger was first reported by SITE, a Washington-based group that tracks jihadist material online. The authors were able to confirm the announcement by monitoring the jihadist site, Ansar al Mujahideen, which frequently posts material from al Qaeda, including Tuesday's news of the merger of the Syrian and Iraqi wings of al Qaeda. Complicating matters, on Wednesday al Nusra claimed it wasn't merging with al Qaeda's affiliate in Iraq, but instead was pledging its allegiance to al Qaeda's overall leadership.

Here is how The Levant is defined:

The Levant consists today of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Cyprus, Hatay Province and other parts of southern Turkey, some regions of northwestern Iraq and the Sinai Peninsula.

Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tramp]

@tramp Whatever differences radicals and saudis have, there are not big. Saudis have successfully turned all radicals to fight outside of arabia. Everyone is trying to be leaders of ummah (even pakis) by showing who is more pious. But the current scenario (iraq/syria), its mainly the creation of gcc to undercut iran in the region.

Whoever comes to position will do same things, is there any difference as to who is leader. Everyone's common goal is sharia i.e. return to 7th century.

No buddy, the difference is very very big. Because, Al Qaida wants to preside over a Caliphate, which combines the political and religious Islam. And it will give them huge clout across the Ummah as they would be custodian of the two most important mosques. Imagine the clout over jihadis when they would be the sole gatekeepers to the Hajj that every Muslim is expected to undertake at least once in a lifetime as part of his/her existence as a Muslim. Remember Hajj is one of the five important obligations of a Muslim.
Saudis cannot have any sympathy for Al Qaida as the extremists are out to end the rule of the House of Saud. Because, the House of Saud is the antithesis of a Rashidun Caliphate in which the Caliph is a person elected by the Shura. No hereditary monarchy can support a Caliphate of that nature.
The irony is the Sauds came to power with the help of Al Wahhab, on whose teachings Al Qaida has been founded.
Saudis may pick and choose the jihads going on in different parts of the world to decide which to fund. But it will be suicidal for Saudis to strengthen Al Qaida.

 

[tramp]

No one will even look at saudi+(even with $$$) if traditional leaders of region like iraq/egypt gain their former status. What was the status of this gcc folks in 60s, 70s among ummah. Did anyone look upon these folks for leadership??

@nruptunga
The importance of Saudi Arabia can never be undermined so long as Muslims bow every day facing Ka'aba while praying. And do Hajj as part of their obligation as a Muslim.
Even when Iraq and Egypt were in their peak for theosophical reasons, for the common Muslim Saudi Arabia was most important.
What Arab Spring has accorded Al Qaida is an opportunity to take control of several states surrounding Saudi Arabia through the backdoor, using organisations like the Brotherhood.
True the GCC states become more noticed only after the oil prices hit the roof. Though oil was discovered in 1930s and the first wells began yielding liquid gold in 40s/50s, they remained in the background until the economies become strong because of the surplus economies that the soaring oil price created.

 

[nrupatunga]

@tramp
mecca and median are important for ummah. Fine. But arabia weilded influence only for around 30 years during 1st caliphate. Later caliphate moved to damascus and then bhagdad before settling in istanbul. So for a HUGE time (more or less always) political/economical power of islam lay outside arabia. After 1st caliphate, only now has the political/economical power come to arabia again. Like now, political power in arabia caused turmoil in entire region then as well. Established power centers like persia, byzantine were crippled and subjugated (esp byzantine took lot of time).

By not having control over mecca/medina hamper nasser in any way. He was masters of arab street. Inability to defeat israel lead to downfall of nasser and not loss of mecca/medina. I don't know what is it with arabia, but as long as political power is outside arabia the better for region. Levant is best as it has a large non-arab population, political islam is least radicalised when it is based here. But whenever political islam is in arabia it becomes highly radicalised.

Hence arabia is destabilizing iraq/levant etc and trying hard to put its proxies in power. Whereby these dummies have to seek legitimacy from them and become a client state of them Best ex is our pseudoarabs i.e. pakis. See there everyone(nawaz/musharraf/benazir) has to get a deal sanctioned by saudisto conduct their political activities. Hopefully history repeats itself and throws arabia back into fringes for peace.

And wrt al-qaida and saudis, its not important as to who controls arabia. Saudis have bought time by sending radicals to fight in other places. But who controls is not going to make any difference for people in arabia. Its not as if people have rights esp women there. If al-qida comes it will be same rules.Even now its sharia there, and even if al-qaida comes it will be sharia. The important thing is political power should move to its traditional centers like levant/iraq/egypt.

 

[tramp]

@tramp
mecca and median are important for ummah. Fine. But arabia weilded influence only for around 30 years during 1st caliphate. Later caliphate moved to damascus and then bhagdad before settling in istanbul. So for a HUGE time (more or less always) political/economical power of islam lay outside arabia. After 1st caliphate, only now has the political/economical power come to arabia again. Like now, political power in arabia caused turmoil in entire region then as well. Established power centers like persia, byzantine were crippled and subjugated (esp byzantine took lot of time).

By not having control over mecca/medina hamper nasser in any way. He was masters of arab street. Inability to defeat israel lead to downfall of nasser and not loss of mecca/medina. I don't know what is it with arabia, but as long as political power is outside arabia the better for region. Levant is best as it has a large non-arab population, political islam is least radicalised when it is based here. But whenever political islam is in arabia it becomes highly radicalised.

Hence arabia is destabilizing iraq/levant etc and trying hard to put its proxies in power. Whereby these dummies have to seek legitimacy from them and become a client state of them Best ex is our pseudoarabs i.e. pakis. See there everyone(nawaz/musharraf/benazir) has to get a deal sanctioned by saudisto conduct their political activities. Hopefully history repeats itself and throws arabia back into fringes for peace.

And wrt al-qaida and saudis, its not important as to who controls arabia. Saudis have bought time by sending radicals to fight in other places. But who controls is not going to make any difference for people in arabia. Its not as if people have rights esp women there. If al-qida comes it will be same rules.Even now its sharia there, and even if al-qaida comes it will be sharia. The important thing is political power should move to its traditional centers like levant/iraq/egypt.

Wherever the power centre of a Caliphate, the caliph always ensured that the areas of the twin mosques were under his control whether Umayyads, Abbasids or Othmans...
Though control of the twin mosques is not necessary for political power, their control provides a higher standing for Muslim rulers. That is why all major dynasties had Mecca and Medina under control.
Time of caliphates are over .. and there will be no single power centre anymore. Though Al Qaida will try to extend reach from pockets in the Middle East.
Saudis have their interest in keeping other countries in the Middle East in constant simmer. (Iran is different... because the enmity with it more visceral from the times of the powerful Persian emperors who subjugated Arabs from pre-Islamic times.)
I am not talking about what the people of Arabia want. Nobody bothers about that. But there is huge difference for the world, if Al Qaida succeeds in unseating the Saudas, that will boost their moral authority. Also, its not just oil money that Saudi Arabia has. The Hajj and Umrah economics is huge.

 

[pmaitra]

@nrupatunga,

Loved your post, and I got to look at this issue from a new angle. Thanks or that.

@tramp,

Control of the mosques is symbolic. It has an emotional effect on the masses. Saudis have an interest in keeping ME in simmer, but they would benefit even more if ME was under their control, but peaceful. However, due to historical reasons, Persians could never accept Arabs as superior, so Saudi has no other option but to rely on Wahhabism. Lost out on civilization, so they are holding on to what they can best - Wahhabism.

 

[tramp]

@nrupatunga,

Loved your post, and I got to look at this issue from a new angle. Thanks or that.

@tramp,

Control of the mosques is symbolic. It has an emotional effect on the masses. Saudis have an interest in keeping ME in simmer, but they would benefit even more if ME was under their control, but peaceful. However, due to historical reasons, Persians could never accept Arabs as superior, so Saudi has no other option but to rely on Wahhabism. Lost out on civilization, so they are holding on to what they can best - Wahhabism.

Saudis do have control over all countries where Sunnis rule. Syria was the odd one out. Now that will be gone.
They have total control over the GCC. Saudis intervene in force to slap down any attempt for a change of leadership in any of the GCC countries. That is what happened in Bahrain where a nascent Arab Spring was ruthlessly put down by the combined forces of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
The rulers are forced to hold on to Wahabbism because there is a strong undercurrent, despite all the heavyhandedness on the part of the Saudi rulers. This is because Al Qaida, based on Wahabbism, has a lot of sympathy within the kingdom. They are trying to keep down the rising tide by doing things that will placate the Wahabbis, even while taking ruthless action against Al Qaida operatives.
Also, control of the twin mosques is not symbolic because of the revenue. It is huge. For Hajj alone more than three million reach Mecca. Then millions more for Umrah. So, imagine the economic value of such a congregation.. it is huge and one of the major sustenance for the Saudi economy.
Then the religious standing of being the custodian of the twin mosques.