The Kargil War

wild goose

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Kargil conflict was a "poor test" of India's air warfare capability, a prominent US think-tank has said, warning that with threats of future wars with Pakistan and China persisting, Indian defence establishment has to prepare accordingly.

"Despite the happy ending of the Kargil experience for India, the IAF's fighter pilots were restricted in their operations due to myriad challenges specific to this campaign. They were thus consigned to do what they could rather than what they might have done if they had more room for maneuver," said the think-tank in a report released on Thursday.

The Kargil war, in which India emerged victorious over Pakistan, the 70-page report titles 'Airpower At 18,000: the Indian Air Force in the Kargil War' further brought to light the initial near-total lack of transparency and open communication between Indian Army's top leaders and the IAF.

The report by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said the covert Pakistani intrusion into Jammu and Kashmir had exposed a gaping hole in India's nationwide real-time intelligence.

"On a strategic level, the Kargil War vividly demonstrated that a stable bilateral nuclear deterrence relationship can markedly inhibit such regional conflicts in intensity and scale -- if not preclude them altogether," it said.

"In the absence of the nuclear stabilizing factor, those flash points could erupt into open-ended conventional showdowns for the highest stakes. But the Kargil War also demonstrated that nuclear deterrence is not a panacea," the report said.

It said the possibility of future conventional wars of major consequence along India's borders with Pakistan and China persists, and the Indian defence establishment must plan and prepare accordingly.

According to the report, Pakistan's military leaders miscalculated badly in their apparent belief that the international community would press immediately for a cease-fire in Kashmir out of concern over a possible escalation of the fighting to the nuclear level, with the net result that Pakistan would be left with an easily acquired new slice of the terrain on the Indian side of the LoC.

Carnegie said the nuclear balance between the two countries did not deter a determined Indian conventional response, and the successful reaction that India ultimately mounted on the Kargil heights fell well short of being all out in scale.

"Furthermore, since the Vajpayee government scrupulously kept its combat operations confined to Indian-controlled Kashmir, the international community had no compelling reason to intervene," it said.

As a result, a remote but high-intensity and high-stakes showdown was allowed to run on for more than two months, something the Pakistan Army's leaders all but certainly did not anticipate when they first conjured up their incursion plan.

The Kargil experience also suggested that if China and Pakistan came to appreciate that India possessed overwhelming conventional force preponderance in the region, that presence could act as a deterrent against such provocations in the future, it said.

According to the report, prudent Indian defence planners will likely find themselves shortchanged in their preparations for the full spectrum of possible challenges to their country's security in years to come if they draw undue comfort from the happy ending of the Kargil experience and accept that conflict as their only planning baseline for hedging against future contingencies along the Line of Control.



Kargil was poor test of India's air warfare capability: US think tank - Indian Express
 
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trackwhack

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Kargil was redeemed alright. But we have Israel to thank a lot for. I dread the thought of what might have happened if Congress was in power. Not taking sides but there was (and still is) obvious affinity between Israel and BJP.
 

sayareakd

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Kargil was redeemed alright. But we have Israel to thank a lot for. I dread the thought of what might have happened if Congress was in power. Not taking sides but there was (and still is) obvious affinity between Israel and BJP.
if congress was in power, then we wont have gone to Lahore, RAW and IB wont have given the news, which PM of the day wanted to hear, etc, etc.

any way things could have gone from bad to worse. But victory was finally ours.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I dont know about Party and Politics, But If we see IAF faults..

1. They never think about this senerio which is inside Indian borders and was already a conflict zone..

2. Only Srinagar Airport was used for all types of sorties, There were no plan for other Airbases in the region despite knowing this is a conflict zone..

3. When IAF lose Chopper and Fighter they stopped there CAS for Army during conflict times..
 

Bheeshma

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Wasn't the cold start formulated after kargil. It is a brilliant concept but must integrate all three arms. Hit the enemy at a place and time of our choosing.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Yes, it is..

But one should able to hit the targets too.. this is where IAF failed in early days of War..
 

SADAKHUSH

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What I fail to understand why did India not open other fronts? This was a missed opportunity to take back occupied parts of Kashmir and after the cease fire no peace talks to take place till they move their Army out of entire territory of India.
 

sayareakd

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What I fail to understand why did India not open other fronts? This was a missed opportunity to take back occupied parts of Kashmir and after the cease fire no peace talks to take place till they move their Army out of entire territory of India.
for that people at the control of things need balls of steels, persons at that time did't had them.
 

ani82v

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Makes even more stronger case of Joint Command.
Back in the days there was Joint Cadet Commission. Now there are no chances of that happening right from bottom to the top. This leaves a lot of room for blame games and finger pointing.
Cold start is already given a cold shoulder by IAF.

How difficult is it to put together Joint Strategic Command? I am sure they would find it unworkable right now because dislike of top brass for each other in different wings and tendency to look down upon each other. Now who is supposed to fix this?
 

Blackwater

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my Q was deleted by MODS

anyhow i ask again

Was Su-30 used in kargil??? if yes, what was their role??if not y not????
 

Kunal Biswas

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The SU-30K of those times never operated over extreme north most probably due to there Engines & High Maintenance Cost due to there Number which was only 18 ( Imported spares )..

Where as MIG-29 been operated at those altitude and there had large number so reduced maintenance costs..

---------------------

I am sure they would find it unworkable right now because dislike of top brass for each other in different wings and tendency to look down upon each other. Now who is supposed to fix this?
That is what Media portrait to people..

In reality there is no problem between IAF or IA on Ground but layout of the system which let things down, The people which are root of this issue are in MOD..
 

Blackwater

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The SU-30K of those times never operated over extreme north most probably due to there Engines & High Maintenance Cost due to there Number which was only 18 ( Imported spares )..

Where as MIG-29 been operated at those altitude and there had large number so reduced maintenance costs..

---------------------



That is what Media portrait to people..

In reality there is no problem between IAF or IA on Ground but layout of the system which let things down, The people which are root of this issue are in MOD..
but dont you think SU-30 had better engine and better radars and missile system than mig-29.:sad::sad:


Only if they are not used becoz they were new and only 18 is ridiculous:rolleyes:
 

Kunal Biswas

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Only if they are not used becoz they were new and only 18 is ridiculous:rolleyes:
It matter alot.. why ? :

There are few aircraft with few engines, If one use the jet for one hour it needs next 4 hours of maintenance, Out on battlefield one need continues eyes and protection in skys, If you use these, this much there will be none in Air all the time hence opportunity for Enemy Air-force..
 

Yusuf

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India must prepare for war with Pakistan and China - Carnegie Endowment

NEW DELHI: Holding that the possibility of future conventional wars of major consequence along India's northern borders with Pakistan and China persists, a prominent US think-tank says the Indian defence establishment "must plan and prepare accordingly".

In a 70-page report titled, "Airpower at 18,000: The IAF in the Kargil war", the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace says the 1999 Indo-Pak conflict demonstrated on a strategic level that a stable bilateral nuclear deterrence relationship can markedly inhibit such regional conflicts in intensity and scale - if not preclude them altogether.

"In the absence of the nuclear stabilizing factor, those flash points could erupt into open-ended conventional showdowns for the highest stakes," it says. But the study goes on to add that the Kargil war "also demonstrated that nuclear deterrence is not a panacea", and consequently India must plan and prepare for the future.

The study also underlines — as is well-documented by now — some of India's military shortcomings. For instance, the gaping holes in the country's real-time intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capability that allowed the incursion by Pakistani Army regulars and others "to go undetected for many days".

"It further brought to light the initial near-total lack of transparency and open communication between the Indian Army's top leaders and the IAF with respect to the gathering crisis. All things considered, the conflict was a poor test of India's air warfare capability," it says.

As earlier reported by TOI, the then Army and IAF chiefs, General V P Malik and Air Chief Marshal A Y Tipnis, squabbled with each other over the conduct of operations. Gen Malik has written how ACM Tipnis was reluctant to use airpower in the initial days of the conflict.

ACM Tipnis went on record to retort that an "embarrassed" Army was initially reluctant "to reveal the full gravity" of the situation, arising from the presence of Pakistani intruders in the Kargil heights, to the government. As the conflict progressed, both Army and IAF, however, got their act together. IAF pitched in with ground strikes by its MiG-21s, MiG-27s and Mirage-2000s to help Indian soldiers evict the Pakistanis from the icy heights.

The study says, "Despite the happy ending of the Kargil experience for India, IAF's fighter pilots were restricted in their operations due to myriad challenges specific to this campaign. They were thus consigned to do what they could rather than what they might have done if they had more room for manoeuvre."

US think-tank asks India to prepare against threats along northern borders - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site
 

pmaitra

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Re: India must prepare for war with Pakistan and China - Carnegie Endowment

"India must prepare for war with Pakistan and China, and therefore, spend more money on foreign weapons - Carnegie Endowment"

Legend:
EXPLICIT
IMPLICIT
 

blank_quest

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Re: India must prepare for war with Pakistan and China - Carnegie Endowment

Headline is Sensational as usual! TOI-let Paper of iNDIA
 

EzioAltaïr

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Re: India must prepare for war with Pakistan and China - Carnegie Endowment

"India must prepare for war with Pakistan and China, and therefore, spend more money on foreign weapons - Carnegie Endowment"

Legend:
EXPLICIT
IMPLICIT
These foreign think tanks want us to fight real bad don't they. Who cares about lives all they care about is money. :lol:
 

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