Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E

[tony4562]

Shouldn't bother you when you are not being named.

50cent army exists & nationalists all over the internet including this forum will do everything to bust their propaganda.

50cent army do exist, but they mainly frequent chinese forums like Sina, Tianya, etc, or maybe a few big english sites like cnn or bbc. A forum like this is absolutely of no interest to them. The main function of 50cent army is to sway the public opinion (towards the CCP not China in general) , what opinion will they manage to sway here?

 

[tony4562]

Even Iranians claim they have 5th gen fighter and then display mockups that looks like one. It does not reflect any merit.



I will not link Su35 with J20 but will definitely associate this development with chinese aviation industry which is not self-sufficient, a big myth-buster for all chinese people who claim otherwise.

Iranian's mockup does NOT fly, so are countless other mockups and models there. The difference betweena mockup and an actual flying machine is like day and night.

 

[nrj]

50cent army do exist, but they mainly frequent chinese forums like Sina, Tianya, etc, or maybe a few big english sites like cnn or bbc. A forum like this is absolutely of no interest to them.

You speak for them?

 

[ice berg]

analysis [a·nal·y·ses]
- the division of a physical or abstract whole into its constituent parts to examine or determine their relationship or value Compare synthesis

not sure whats tripping you.



The difference between Multimedia and Discussion oriented interactive argument is not difficult to apprehend.



That becomes a requirement for all posters on every instance challenged.

Good, you have convinced me that you can look up a dictionary. Now tell me which post in this thread is what you consider a "the division of a physical or abstract whole into its constituent parts to examine or determine their relationship or value Compare synthesis" It is easy to copy something from the wiki. The harder part is to understand the words and apply it in a real world situation.

Of course the difference betwen Multimedia and Discussion is not difficult to apprehend. What is difficult to apprehend is the relevance to the topic at hand as well as your own post.

And how exactly do you provide official specifications to ongoing projects like PAKFA and J-20? And when does official specifications got anything to do with real capabilities?

Feel free to get back to the topic at hand when you done.





For me the obvious message is this:
We are willing to sell you SU-35. If certain conditions are meet.

We will see what comes out of this.

This is no sale until it is confirmed.

 

[nrj]

Iranian's mockup does NOT fly, so are countless other mockups and models there. The difference betweena mockup and an actual flying machine is like day and night.

The ones who claim to be having flying machine based on the said technology are not self-sufficient in their aviation industry hence the Su35 purchase.

 

[nrj]

Good, you have convinced me that you can look up a dictionary. Now tell me which post in this thread is what you consider a "the division of a physical or abstract whole into its constituent parts to examine or determine their relationship or value Compare synthesis" It is easy to copy something from the wiki. The harder part is to understand the words and apply it in a real world situation.

The question on word analysis was raised by you. Scout this thread or others to get to the bottom of it.

Of course the difference betwen Multimedia and Discussion is not difficult to apprehend. What is difficult to apprehend is the relevance to the topic at hand as well as your own post.

The burden of proof remains with the arrogating party.

And when does official specifications got anything to do with real capabilities?

Since the beginning of modern time.

 

[ice berg]

The ones who claim to be having flying machine based on the said technology are not self-sufficient in their aviation industry hence the Su35 purchase.

I am out of this thread after this post.

1. There is no confirmation of the sale yet. Let us not jumping the guns before it is confirmed by both sides.
2. The sale of 48 odd fighters is not a confirmation one way or another. Different fighters have different roles. You dont see people open a thread about LCA after the recent purchase, right.
3. Self -sufficient dosnt means self sufficient in every areas. Even US outsources from other countries. Let us not confuse self-sufficient in key areas with self-sufficient in EVERY AREAS. It is a process. Not a conclusion.
4. Nobody believes chinese are on par with Russians in every area, yet.

So other words. The world is not black and white. Let us discuss based on facts, not rumours.

 

[nrj]

Russia asks China not to clone Su-35 fighters

Russia was ready to sign a contract with China to supply 48 multi-role Su-35 fighter jets. However, Russia put forward a condition to the Celestial Empire. Moscow demands guarantees that the aircraft will not be further copied for sale.

According to Kommersant, the amount of the expected transaction could reach $4 billion, or approximately $85 million per unit. If the contract is signed, it will be the largest arms contract of the last decade.

However, according to Kommersant's sources in the defense complex, the Russian side insists on stipulating legal warranties for observing the right to intellectual property to protect the Su-35 from possible Chinese counterfeits and prevent it from being sold in the markets of third countries at dumped prices.

There have been such precedents before. Chinese fighter J-10 is virtually a copy of Russian Su-27, and J-11 is the analogue of SU-30. According to experts, the interest of the Chinese to purchase a large lot of new fighters may be caused by exactly the desire to obtain access to the latest Russian technology. Beijing has not given consent to the legal registration of intellectual property rights on the Su-35, but in any case it would be very difficult to track the compliance with the agreement.

http://english.pravda.ru/business/companies/07-03-2012/120707-su_35_russia_china-0/

 

[nrj]

Nobody believes chinese are on par with Russians in every area

Yes nobody does that. Hope other chinese posters are also reading.

 

[huaxia rox]

Russia asks China not to clone Su-35 fighters



http://english.pravda.ru/business/companies/07-03-2012/120707-su_35_russia_china-0/

Chinese fighter J-10 is virtually a copy of Russian Su-27, and J-11 is the analogue of SU-30.

J-10 is virtually a copy of Russian Su-27????dam!!i thought its actually a copy of Russian UFO.......a frigging infomative russian web site i must say..........

 

[J20!]

what "other plenty of stealth features" ...other than VLO shaping ....
NO 5th gen jet Engine
NO AESA
heck God knows about Sensors, Avionics and Jammers ....

Hahaha! We dont know what the J20 has under the hood. What we do know is that YOUR country can barely produce a light fighter like LCA, let alone a fifth gen fighter like the Annihilator.

The PLAAF already operates INDEGENOUS jamming pods on many classes of fighters, including J10's and J11's. We already operate an indigenous IRST on the J11's and podded versions on the J10A and one integrated on the J10B. We've already seen two Chinese AESA prototypes; the WS15 is well on its way. We have OUR OWN targeting pods flying on JH7's and H6's. Can we say the same for you?!!! Heelll to the no! Please, laughing at us coz we're not as advanced as the west? The only difference between India and Pakistan in terms of a defence industry is that you have the money (not that much really) to buy foreign weapons and they don't.
PS. Even Pakistan operates an indigenous fighter right now, do you? Now that's something to about...

 

[arya]

 

[arya]

cant we go for su47 or su34

 

[p2prada]

Hahaha! We dont know what the J20 has under the hood. What we do know is that YOUR country can barely produce a light fighter like LCA, let alone a fifth gen fighter like the Annihilator.

The PLAAF already operates INDEGENOUS jamming pods on many classes of fighters, including J10's and J11's. We already operate an indigenous IRST on the J11's and podded versions on the J10A and one integrated on the J10B. We've already seen two Chinese AESA prototypes; the WS15 is well on its way. We have OUR OWN targeting pods flying on JH7's and H6's. Can we say the same for you?!!! Heelll to the no! Please, laughing at us coz we're not as advanced as the west? The only difference between India and Pakistan in terms of a defence industry is that you have the money (not that much really) to buy foreign weapons and they don't.
PS. Even Pakistan operates an indigenous fighter right now, do you? Now that's something to about...

Our armed force's higher standards do not yet allow indigenous equipment to be inducted. We are allowed imports, hence we are able to have higher standards.

 

[amitkriit]

Our armed force's higher standards do not yet allow indigenous equipment to be inducted. We are allowed imports, hence we are able to have higher standards.

Then let us lower those standards a bit so that we can found our own hig-tech defense industry, without getting money and help from TATA and Reliance.

 

[p2prada]

Then let us lower those standards a bit so that we can found our own hig-tech defense industry, without getting money and help from TATA and Reliance.

Nobody can ask the armed forces to lower their standards. Then they will ask you to allow a higher number of operational failures. You choose between the two.

There is no need to say the armed forces can maintain quality standards while buying less capable indigenous weapons systems. The world isn't fair.

People forget there is a huge difference between buying a weapons system and buying a substandard weapons system. Indigenous for India has never meant compromise. The Chinese don't have a lot of choice. When problems are found and even after spending lots of money the product is found unsatisfying, PLA bows to their operational needs and they look to Russia for imports. Su-35 is a case in point of such a failure.

The sale of Su-35 may only hurt egos in China, but it will give our defence planners sleepless nights as compared to their existing weapons systems. We are the losers in this deal.

 

[nrj]

Then let us lower those standards a bit so that we can found our own hig-tech defense industry, without getting money and help from TATA and Reliance.

or let the domestic industry rise to those standards. Armed forces will not compromise for anyone.

 

[s002wjh]

Nobody can ask the armed forces to lower their standards. Then they will ask you to allow a higher number of operational failures. You choose between the two.

There is no need to say the armed forces can maintain quality standards while buying less capable indigenous weapons systems. The world isn't fair.

People forget there is a huge difference between buying a weapons system and buying a substandard weapons system. Indigenous for India has never meant compromise. The Chinese don't have a lot of choice. When problems are found and even after spending lots of money the product is found unsatisfying, PLA bows to their operational needs and they look to Russia for imports. Su-35 is a case in point of such a failure.

The sale of Su-35 may only hurt egos in China, but it will give our defence planners sleepless nights as compared to their existing weapons systems. We are the losers in this deal.

give a man a fish he can live for a day, teach the man how to fish he can live for the rest of his life. military project create jobs, increase countries technology/knowledge base, and has significant effect on different industy. you have to do it at some point, you can't just rely on someone else for the entire life. india is a big country (unlike some small insignificant country), and has the engineers/resource to start their own program, just manage efficiently.

china has become more self-sufficent as the years goes by, it might take them few more year or a decade to acheive true self-sufficent, but they are already far ahead. we have seen china bought less and less russian weapons over the years, its just matter of time before they become self-sufficent.

as for su35, it might be a stop gap or it might fell through etc. china don't plan to put all their eggs in j20 even if they have confidence in it.

 

[AprilLyrics]

Russia and China may soon sign a $4-bln contract on the delivery of 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets to the Chinese air force, Russia's Kommersant business daily said on Tuesday.
"The sides have practically agreed on the delivery of 48 Su-35 multirole fighters, worth $4 billion, to China," Kommersant said citing a source in the Russian defense industry.
According to the paper, the only obstacle remaining is Moscow's demand that Beijing should guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35s without proper licensing.
"Moscow is not only aiming to ensure its presence on the Chinese [combat aircraft] market, but also attempting to prevent the potential copycat production of Russian aircraft for subsequent sales to third parties with predatory pricing," a Russian government source told Kommesant.

China has a record of building advanced combat aircraft based on Russian and other foreign designs, and relied almost entirely on copies of Soviet designs

The Chinese Chengdu J-10 fighter is based heavily on the cancelled Israeli Lavi fighter demonstrator, the Shenyang J-11 is a replica of the Su-30 Flanker-C, and the Chinese/Pakistani Chengdu FC-1 uses Russian engines and other technology from the MiG-29. The J-15 is a Chinese-built derivate of the Sukhoi T-10K-3, a carrier-borne fighter prototype which China acquired from Ukraine.
The Su-35, powered by two 117S engines with thrust vectoring, combines high maneuverability and the capability to effectively engage several air targets simultaneously using both guided and unguided missiles and weapon systems.
The aircraft has been touted as "4++ generation using fifth-generation technology."

Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China | World | RIA Novosti

the truth is,china is going to buy LCA.trust me..

 

[nimo_cn]

Nobody can ask the armed forces to lower their standards. Then they will ask you to allow a higher number of operational failures. You choose between the two.

There is no need to say the armed forces can maintain quality standards while buying less capable indigenous weapons systems. The world isn't fair.

People forget there is a huge difference between buying a weapons system and buying a substandard weapons system. Indigenous for India has never meant compromise. The Chinese don't have a lot of choice. When problems are found and even after spending lots of money the product is found unsatisfying, PLA bows to their operational needs and they look to Russia for imports. Su-35 is a case in point of such a failure.

The sale of Su-35 may only hurt egos in China, but it will give our defence planners sleepless nights as compared to their existing weapons systems. We are the losers in this deal.

If China needs Su-35, we won't hesitate to import it, just like we imported SU-27s.

Let us talk about egos in China until the deal is confirmed and fulfillied, before that all you are doing is cheap talking.