Sukhoi PAK FA

[raju1982]

Su-57 is advertised as 5th generation in the new Top Gun movie.

Advertising is something and reality is something else.

 

[Satish Sharma]

I was talking capability wise. Su-57 is not a true 5th gen fighter. its stealth, sensor, radar are more less less Rafale F3R class i guess.

How do you you know su57 is not stealth yeah the initial aircraft has exposed joints regits nut bolts, have you seen the new initial aircrafts .
We should scrap mrfa buy su57 with our own radars we have great aesa radars GaN based we have fly by wire systems with which we are upgrading for super Sukhoi & some mirages.. we have INFRARED sensors for super sukhoi with 5th gen technologies like radar absorbing coating, distributed apperture systems it will be quite good aircraft, we have our own ew now super Sukhoi has given us alot. we have developed enough technologies to use it in su57 and make it Better than Russian su57.. with there tech, they don't have aesa radar yet.. su57 is very great deal. We should use all our subsystems as much possible... Su57 with indian sub-systems will be way better than rafale. Just hope the distributed apperture systems ,MAWS & ew Is as capable as rafales spectra. This will be game changer...

But there are some issues as well su57 consumes more than twice the fuel of rafale around 12 tons it is also heavy weight has more range it operational.cost will be very high.iaf will require more budget.
Another thing is we left su57 because they were doing thing according to us. not even allowing our pilots to close of aircraft..they thought we will never leave they took us for granted thank God we left that. And neither we were getting enough technologies.. forget about TOT. If we are getting all our wishes fulfilled then only we should prefer them, and we have advantage at bargaining, they need more than we need su57.

Russian have hope that indian might see su57 a better deal rather than a 4.5 gen. And now iaf chief has given a statement regarding it.
Another is does it suits indian requirements I think with indian sub-systems it will fullfill all our requirements. As super Sukhoi I means to fullfill all our requirement. Usa will die of this as it will get a very strong contentdor.. and Russians will also get a recognition, certificate that indians have brought it..

Most importantly su57 is cheaper than rafale.
We will get our astra series missile to integrate in it. Unlike rafale who is waiting for mrfa deal. It will carry brahmos as well..

 

[The3Amigos]

Advertising is something and reality is something else.

In general it is considered 5h gen. F-14 was considered early 4th gen. Much less advanced than F-16 which is years ahead. Su-57 is considered early 5th gen, so not as capable as say J-20 but for all intents and purposes it is good enough for modern warfare.

 

[raju1982]

In general it is considered 5h gen. F-14 was considered early 4th gen. Much less advanced than F-16 which is years ahead. Su-57 is considered early 5th gen, so not as capable as say J-20 but for all intents and purposes it is good enough for modern warfare.

Agreed, but i think except engine, J-20 is miles ahead of Su-57.

 

[The3Amigos]

Agreed, but i think except engine, J-20 is miles ahead of Su-57.

J-20 is ahead of Su-57 in just about everything. Su-57 however does have DIRCM up its sleeve.

Did you know the Su-57 Felon is the only Fighter Jet Equipped with DIRCM? - The Aviation Geek Club

Did you know the Su-57 Felon is the only Fighter Jet Equipped with DIRCM?

theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[raju1982]

J-20 is ahead of Su-57 in just about everything. Su-57 however does have DIRCM up its sleeve.

Did you know the Su-57 Felon is the only Fighter Jet Equipped with DIRCM? - The Aviation Geek Club

Did you know the Su-57 Felon is the only Fighter Jet Equipped with DIRCM?

theaviationgeekclub.com

izdeliye 30 is way ahead of Chinese can have in near future.

 

[The3Amigos]

izdeliye 30 is way ahead of Chinese can have in near future.

Disagree. Russia lacks funding to compete with Chinese engines. If India funds Russian engines then I can see Russian engines come up on top.

 

[raju1982]

Disagree. Russia lacks funding to compete with Chinese engines. If India funds Russian engines then I can see Russian engines come up on top.

Which engine China has like that? There are only 5 masters of fighter aircraft engines,

P&W, GE, RR, Safran and UAC... others are just catching up.

 

[The3Amigos]

Which engine China has like that?

WS-10C is already quite a bit better than what powers Su-57

 

[raju1982]

WS-10C is already quite a bit better than what powers Su-57

Please share the link. Chinese are still way behind Russia in all kind of engine tech.

 

[Satish Sharma]

WS-10C is already quite a bit better than what powers Su-57

I have a parameter where we can say who is better if we see al 31F engine it has 4LP stages & and 9 HP stages. Pretty much similar configuration seen in all Chinese engines because all are based on them..

al41 it is also quite similar..

If we compare it with western counter parts of sma eclass like f100
It was quite similar with 3 stage LP stage & 10 stage
& F110 has with 3 stage LP stage & 9 HP stages..
Now let's see advancements of Americans after this.
The f119 has 3 LP stage and 6 HP stage.
Same with latest f135 3HP stage & 6 LP stage..

Now let's compare the advancements of Russian from al41 to al51 which is called izdeliye 30.
It has 3 LP stage & 5 HP stage. It weights 1400kg

Whereas f110/f100/al31/al41 class engine have weights exceding 1700-1800kg. And this is where Chinese engines are actually... Whereas Russians are way ahead of china....

this whole ramayan was to tell
that CHINESE SINGLE CRYSTAL BLADES technology is nowhere close to Russians. Russians are already ahead of china.... The less stages you have the more stronger you're SCB is...Chinese have not achieved that kind of technological advancements..

 

[The3Amigos]

Su57 will be better than rafale. But with indian systems
Or atleast we should use it to bargain against France.. that could be reason of sudden recommendation of by iaf.

Su-57 is F-15 size. Rafale is F-16 size. They complement each other.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Su-57 is F-15 size. Rafale is F-16 size. They complement each other.

But it has definetely way less radar cross section than rafale. It is definetely a heavy weight category and rafale is 4.5 gen medium weight. But buying a more long range aircraft with descent stealth is good option. Not whole 114 aircraft forrfa atleast 3 squadron will be good for stop gap measures till amca. And 60 rafale or even reduce it and buy more su57 it will be very good combination..

 

[The3Amigos]

But it has definetely way less radar cross section than rafale. It is definetely a heavy weight category and rafale is 4.5 gen medium weight. But buying a more long range aircraft with descent stealth is good option. Not whole 114 aircraft forrfa atleast 3 squadron will be good for stop gap measures till amca. And 60 rafale or even reduce it and buy more su57 it will be very good combination..

Yes IMO Su-57 eventually phase out Su-30 MKI and Rafale eventually phase out Mirage 2000.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Yes IMO Su-57 eventually phase out Su-30 MKI and Rafale eventually phase out Mirage 2000.

There is no such thing in pipeline that rafale will replace mirages and su57 will replace su30s we need strength of 42 sq..which is right now 32sq.. substract 2 sq. Of mig 21s. Mig 29s in future and mirages will also be retired and there are many sq. Of jaguars as well. So eventually the number will be very less. With current orders of Tejas +super Sukhoi + rafales. Our strength will be around 30 sq. After retiring those all old aircrafts.. mig 29 will stay for abit more time its upgraded. Descent enought to serve for long time..

 

[The3Amigos]

There is no such thing in pipeline that rafale will replace mirages and su57 will replace su30s we need strength of 42 sq..which is right now 32sq.. substract 2 sq. Of mig 21s. Mig 29s in future and mirages will also be retired and there are many sq. Of jaguars as well. So eventually the number will be very less. With current orders of Tejas +super Sukhoi + rafales. Our strength will be around 30 sq. After retiring those all old aircrafts.. mig 29 will stay for abit more time its upgraded. Descent enought to serve for long time..

HAL already has experience building Su-30 MKI. HAL can use that experience to build Su-57. In that case, I guess they'll go for a twin seater called Su-60 MKI. You just add 3 to the number. Su-27 -> Su-30. Su-57 -> Su-60.

 

[Anirbann Datta]

Heard somewhere that, SU-57 uses it's high pitch engine sound to employ some thing called 'acoustic stealth' to suppress and scatter incoming radar waves

Senior members-- some light?

 

[StealthFlanker]

Heard somewhere that, SU-57 uses it's high pitch engine sound to employ some thing called 'acoustic stealth' to suppress and scatter incoming radar waves

Senior members-- some light?

I really hope that you are joking

 

[The3Amigos]

Anyway, Su-57 MKI will start phasing out the earliest batches of Su-30 MKI starting around 2030. Su-57 is F-15 size. Rafale, F-35 are only F-16 size. They cannot fulfill the role of air superiority fighter. HAL will build Su-57 MKI.

 

[raju1982]

Anyway, Su-57 MKI will start phasing out the earliest batches of Su-30 MKI starting around 2030. Su-57 is F-15 size. Rafale, F-35 are only F-16 size. They cannot fulfill the role of air superiority fighter. HAL will build Su-57 MKI.

Seems like thats the only way as India-US relation is lowest in a decade.