S.A.T.A
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You obviously did not catch the sarcasm there...Why would Christians join RSS in its demand for banning the reason they are there?
You obviously did not catch the sarcasm there...Why would Christians join RSS in its demand for banning the reason they are there?
Good atleast you accept that people should be allowed to convert if its there own initiative and belief rather than being misled by priests.Hypothetically Hindu society has no problem with that.
The problem is an ideal state of affairs does not exist.Hindu society would have had any need for other measures if the state had prevented the evangelists and other groups from violating the ideal rules of conduct.since the state has taken a back seat then the society will follow its instincts.Good atleast you accept that people should be allowed to convert if its there own initiative and belief rather than being misled by priests.
Instead of burning priests and beating them like hooligans should state machinery be used to prosecute because after BJP is ruling party so there should be no difficulties.
Why should it be a crime to help people out and give them hope? The attacks on Mother Teresa were downright shameful.hoo no bro ! here in india, more then 90% people are forcefully converted for sure. i mean not by pointing the guns or threatening them, but by misusing their helplessness, weaknesses poverty and problems, saying conversion will be the solution for there problem, and they will be helping them out. Even if people don't have such issues, still the missionary people have the training and ability to make people fall for them.
I am not saying anything like shutting down RSS indoctrination camps, if they want to congregate with that belief than so be it. Even Aryan Nation has a right to exist. It is when it becomes violent that it needs to be clamped down. Christians have a right to their belief and the right to preach it just like RSS does its message. The difference is RSS message comes with fear of losing Hindu society while Christians are trying to build one on hope. It is that fear that RSS prays on.Myself one among who strongly oppose most of the ideologies of RSS, i even served RSS as mukya sikshak (head master) of a sector for 2 years. i don't think RSS as a terrorist group or any such though never came to me when i was in it. This violence act might be a plot of few extreme minded people, who might be in RSS can also be found in other groups also. that had to be controlled and punish the guilt, if they where found guilty by the court of law.
Christians are doing what they always do. RSS is afraid of it which promotes intolerance.Mangalore being a coastal region and was one of the breading places for christian missionaries for long before, now from past decades, the coastal region of Karnataka had become a strong hold of RSS and other such groups also., and as there is a BJP government in Karnataka, there is no such control on RSS activities and the government is busy in it's own problems. so in this case western Karnataka, mostly the western ghats and the coastal region is a clashing ground for RSS and christian groups, as of now. if law is enforced properly , this issue will be resolved in no time, but Karnataka BJP is not in a mindset to put breaks on RSS
You might have to go through rituals to be Catholic. You don't have to do anything other than accept John 3:14 to be Protestant.broadly talking and not pointing to any individual: Freedom of choice is freely given by sanathana dharma to choose any religion.
if you are converting to any religion you have to go through few religious rituals to be called christian or Muslim. but if you wanted to be a Hindu, you just have to say i'm a Hindu, that's all. coz sanathana dharma doesn't need any propaganda or conversion system to survive in the world. it's been one of the most oldest religious system and survived.
Christians can't accept any God other than theirs. That is why it is monotheism and the message will reflect that. Anyone not revealed to the living God in life gets the opportunity at death to see him and make the choice. When Jews are exposed to the teachings of Christ they have to make the choice to except him or not. There are half as many Messianic Jews in the West as there are Jews in Israel. The Fire and Brimstone preaching is not my message of choice to convert people but it does wake people up to what they are doing.As of i say, one of the oldest religious system which was long there before testimonies where in making, before Lord Jesus was born, and seen islam being born, Now if anyone have to call Sanathana dharma as a PAGAN religion, i can accept it only if they mean , A person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion (not a Christian or Muslim or Jew),
NOT ACCEPTABLE :- if they mean, A person who does not acknowledge god or your god,
coz they already said we are polytheistic, worshiping more then one god!.
if they have other meanings for it, then i have to ask them what we should call them at the time when Lord Jesus was not even born ? they will either be Jews or pagans them selves. (not being offensive here, just a point of view)
What you want is the status quo. It doesn't sound bad but it keeps things like arranged marriages, caste system and oppressed women around. It has to go along with the dinosaurs. We live in a New World with times a changin. You have to keep up or get left behind.i oppose if any religion teaching which aims at prosperity at the cost of other religions. I'm surely not against any religion in the world, even not against Islam. i truly admire every religion which guided human being to this advance level of thinking, but again the EVIL called conversion, which even Islam Era did it in India centuries ago, we are still paying for it, Indian Muslims, genetically not at all a Muslim, there ancestors are from Indian soil itself. Sanathana dharma survived the 7 centuries of Islam dominance but still prevailed. All means of conversion evils has the strength in disguise to engulf the bush fire into wild fire in centuries to come, perhaps near decades.
Your evasive answers serve to reveal to me the false bravado behind your post.How the Hindus society defends its social cultural space should be self evident,whether it is through intellect,social organization,economics,spiritual values or pure street power.The respective challenges elicits the appropriate response.Since Hindus rarely or never encroach into the 'others space' there probably very little concern on the front.But if the others are worried about that, then it is appropriate that they must join the Hindus society in its demand for banning forced conversion and proselytization.
i asked you something but you have not replied anyways i'll repeat it. What's your take on Missionaries who fund and incite violence against non-Christians in the North East.You must be naive if you don't know that is what missionaries do. Showing the people charity is a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith.
How cute. Shall we hear the perspective of a local Catholic from Mangalore ?We already had this discussion. No one points a gun at their head or threatens them with violence to convert. It is their own CHOICE. There is no Inquisition or Crusaders murdering Hindus to scare them to convert. On the other-hand, RSS is stiring up violence against Christians. That is terrorism and the instigators must be prosecuted. The anti-conversion law is unconstitutional as stated by the High Court... "If I am dying and I want to change my religion, will I wait for some babu to tell me I can do it?"
Your feelings towards evangelicals are irrelevant. What matters is freedom to CHOOSE.
Look they have the Right to Preach any religion.But if they continue denigrating the local culture,customs and denigrate Hindu gods as demons sooner or later it is going to boil over. It does not take rocket science to figure that out.I'm a Catholic Christian from Mangalore. Born and brought up there. Lived there for 25years of my life. I nor any one in my family or any of the fellow Catholics I know has faced any hate crime or discriminated against due to religion. In fact there are a few radical Christian sects who have recently started operations in the region, who are creating communal problems not only for non-Christians, but even for Catholic Christians, who have been living there in peace with other communities for many centuries. These new radical christian sects are mostly funded from foreign countries and they are run like multi-national companies. The more the members they get, the more the funds they can get.
I already answered it. Anyone that promotes violence towards others must be prosecuted. Blasphemy to you is freedom of speech to them. Should it be illegal to portray the Prophet Muhammed... no.i asked you something but you have not replied anyways i'll repeat it. What's your take on Missionaries who fund and incite violence against non-Christians in the North East.
what about the blashphemous pamphlet that depicts Hindus as ignorant idol worshipers aren't they same lot as taliban except they come from US?
If she was so powerful she could enforce religious tolerance.As far as tolerance India has no lesson to learn from anyone infact come here we'll teach you how a Christian women (how much i hate her) has become the most powerful woman in a country 80% Hindus.
We aren't the ones who go rioting through the Arab banlieues tearing up the community. I haven't seen any skinheads terrorizing France, just a bunch of Arabs threatening and committing honour killings of converts to Christianity. We don't tolerate terrorism. What RSS does is bullshit.all this bullshit while in EU immigrants are killed by Skinheads and most importantly what has France done for Arabs they are still looked down as lowly creatures stacked in suburbs. Put your own house in order before giving others advice
I think we know our problems well, Buddy. At least I am from a place where I have seen this. Missionary jokers can fool the biased media in western and southern parts of India but not us people from Northeast who know this menace very well. Maoists are in tandem with local Maoists in southeast India.Mangalore? Don't confuse Maoists with Christians.
Indeed we both have different views on freedom of speech and making mockery.I already answered it. Anyone that promotes violence towards others must be prosecuted. Blasphemy to you is freedom of speech to them. Should it be illegal to portray the Prophet Muhammed... no.
last time i checked she was voted as India's most powerful women and one of the most powerful person on earth by Forbes.If she was so powerful she could enforce religious tolerance.
No you tolerate terrorism when it suits your interest...We aren't the ones who go rioting through the Arab banlieues tearing up the community. I haven't seen any skinheads terrorizing France, just a bunch of Arabs threatening and committing honour killings of converts to Christianity. We don't tolerate terrorism. What RSS does is bullshit.
@Rage
Like i have stated elsewhere an individuals state of impoverished destitution has very little do with his her system of belief,hence any promise to ameliorate his poverty by an action religious conversion is nothing but an act of fraud and deception. pedophiles and rapists often entice their victims by offering them sweet inducements before submitting them to acts of depravity, surely the fact that the victims legitimate cravings were satisfied by the perpetrator of the crime should not necessarily become an alibi for the criminal. The Hindu society does not believe that the Christian evangelists are interested in a spiritual upliftment by their acts of inducing conversion, if that is the case they would not have any need for allurements and deception,not to mention vitriolic anti Hindu propaganda that usually accompanies such a process.
This leaves the Hindus society with a strong suspicion that conversions are nothing but an act of intruding into and progressively constrict the Hindu socio-cultural space by means of hook and crook, hence the Hindu community has the legitimate right to defend its space through all the means and resources available to it.So long as Christian and other non Hindu religious group take to deception and other morally devious behaviors to expand their host at the expense of the social stability of the Hindu society, then they should be ready to face the consequences that entail a Hindu response.
Every community has the right defend its extant social space, which is why in the other post i requested Muslims and Christians to join the Hindus in their long standing demand for banning the specter of mass organized conversions. Its well known facts that Christian and Islamic groups have not made themselves part of such cause and their continued remonstrations against various moves instituted by various state govt's to regulate these religious conversions, leaves nobody in doubt as to who is intruding into whose social space.
All subsections that constitute the larger Hindu social fabric are unanimous in their desire to defend the Hindu space from encroachments through means of sly and deception. There is note of discordance here.
I personally do not condone wanton violence nor is the Hindu society in favor of instability caused through violence, a tensed state of atmosphere in the society affects its progress, and as the most important stake holder the Hindu society unavoidably suffers the most.
Breakdown of law imperils social order and order is what sustains a society. However it must be remembered that mere existence of law does not automatically instill social order. Take for instance the violence in Guajarat,iam sure our laws had provisions that forbid acts of violence targeted at a particular a community, however what good did the law to do to the Hind passengers of the Sabarmati express, or what good did it do to the Muslims who died in the riots that followed.
It is imperative that laws and its adherence be observed universally by everyone in order for it to function. The primary function of law is ensure the social well being of the larger society and its constituents by ensuring there is consistency in observation of social order. In Gujarat for instance Hindu community was visited upon by an act of violence both unprecedented and unexpected, some thing that the Hindu society was unprepared for. Law by itself was not deterrent enough to ensure order, but the society, notwithstanding the failure of application law, has to ensure that the order be established in order for the society to survive.
While many had expected the hapless Hindu to carry placards and form picket lines outside the western railways headquarters demanding better safety for railway passengers, the Hindu society reacted in very much an expected manner. The violence as much as undesirable as it was, was clearly an act to restore the familiar order. the act of violent retribution was an attempt by the Hindu society to restore the deterrence, whose absence caused the train burning. In future any unilateral act to disturb order,esp against the Hindu society, will be avoided because we now know those acts have terrible consequences. Consider this as the society's balancing act.
While we may have notions of how a society must respond to breakdown in social order to its disadvantage, but usually the response is random and many time unequivocal. Violence is uncontrollable, hence it is important that in order to avoid such unwelcome circumstances, the reason that lead up to such violence are abjured.