Space exploration and technology

[nitesh]

India was supposed to launch certain satellites (I think 4) but this does not seems to be the case now
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100309/158137947.html
Russia, India may jointly make Glonass, GPS navigation devices

Russia and India might establish a joint venture to produce navigation equipment for GPS and its Russian equivalent Glonass, the head of the Russian federal satellite navigation operator said on Tuesday.

Glonass - the Global Navigation Satellite System - is the Russian equivalent of the U.S. Global Positioning System, or GPS, and is designed for both military and civilian use. Both systems allow users to determine their positions to within a few meters.

"We are actively working on a project to establish a joint venture on Indian territory to produce various navigation equipment. In March a group of our negotiators will head there for another round of talks," said Aledxander Gurko, CEO of Navigation and Information Systems (NIS).

Russia currently has a total of 22 Glonass satellites in orbit, but only 16 of them are operational. The system requires 18 operational satellites for continuous navigation services covering the entire territory of Russia and at least 24 satellites to provide navigation services worldwide.

The Glonass navigation satellite system is expected to start operating worldwide by the end of 2010. As soon as global operations are launched, India will be able to use the civilian signal, allowing users to determine their position to within five to 15 meters.

India's access to a more precise military signal is yet to be approved by the heads of the two states.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said he would discuss cooperation in the Glonass project with Indian officials during his forthcoming visit to New Delhi in the first half of March.

 

[Armand2REP]

GAGAN is a waste of money. It isn't a GNSS or even RNSS. It piggybacks off the NAVSTAR civlian signals. If US turns it off, you still have nothing. That 1,000 crore would be better spent on IRNSS or investing in a European or Russian system. The free GPS safety signal is good enough for navigation.

 

[nitesh]

armand but those systems are ready? Once these systems comes on line it can switch to use those right

 

[Armand2REP]

armand but those systems are ready? Once these systems comes on line it can switch to use those right

GAGAN is only tuned to NAVSTAR, it cannot be switched to Galileo or GLONASS. Raytheon does not have the slightest idea what type of receivers to place on it to make a switch. Once the sats go up it is too late. It is only compatible with US GPS and that is exactly what the US wants, reliance on NAVSTAR. The new L5 safety channel is a dual band with the new L1C channel that is going to be used to greatly increase accuracy. The way commercial receivers used to get higher accuracy was by making very expensive dual band L1/L2 receivers. The new receivers for the latest channels will be much cheaper and get better accuracy than the old dual band. What India is really doing is setting up the airports to utilise this new GPS technology. It isn't any form of self reliance as others might want to believe.

 

[nitesh]

Armand what is the alternative then?

 

[AkhandBharat]

GAGAN is not autonomous, IRNSS is.

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand what is the alternative then?

NAVSTAR only launched the first L5 sat last month. It is going to be several years before enough are operational for it to even come on line. Galileo will have 18 sats up by 2014 when this L5 band will be useful, the civilian channel of the EU constellation has a 1m accuracy which is better than the new GPS signal. India could invest those crore as a level 1 partner and gain access to the military channel for bottom rates and not need all these ground stations to clear up the signal. India can turn to GLONASS, but that has a pathetic accuracy for airline applications much less military and would need even more ground stations to clear up the signal for it to be usable in Indian territory, much less outside the region. Galileo is the way to go, most advanced and doesn't need a wide network of ground synchronisers to get top accuracy.

 

[nitesh]

Armand isn't this is I am stating that future can be changed to anything except GPS

 

[AkhandBharat]

India decided that it needs its own autonomous regional navigation clearly for strategic reasons. Its not going to join Galileo or Glonass.

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand isn't this is I am stating that future can be changed to anything except GPS

GPS has the clear lead, EU and Russia will compete. Thales satellite technology is better than LockMart so there is hope it will not be US dominated. GLONASS needs a serious infusion of modern technology if it is going to keep up. They are still launching surplus satellites left over from the Soviet Era.

 

[Armand2REP]

India decided that it needs its own autonomous regional navigation clearly for strategic reasons. Its not going to join Galileo or Glonass.

Having your own regional navigation satellite system is a nice idea, but a 20m accuracy is not good enough for military applications. India will have to join one of the GNSS if they are going to be a modern military and a global power.

 

[AkhandBharat]

The initial accuracy is 7.6 meters, not 20 meters. And the accuracy can be increased later on. The prime objective is to be independent. 7.6m accuracy is pretty good.

Moreover, Why would India join the galileo project and spend money when they can be subjected to the same off switch as GPS?

 

[Armand2REP]

The initial accuracy is 7.6 meters, not 20 meters. And the accuracy can be increased later on. The prime objective is to be independent. 7.6m accuracy is pretty good.

Moreover, Why would India join the galileo project and spend money when they can be subjected to the same off switch as GPS?

Accuracy is 20m... slide 6

http://www.aprsaf.org/data/aprsaf15_data/csawg/CSAWG_6b.pdf
http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/pdf/pres/stsc2009/tech-17.pdf

 

[AkhandBharat]

Accuracy is 20m... slide 6

http://www.aprsaf.org/data/aprsaf15_data/csawg/CSAWG_6b.pdf
http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/pdf/pres/stsc2009/tech-17.pdf

IRNSS system provides dual frequency (S & L5 band) usage with a targeted position accuracy of less than 10 meters within India

http://www.mycoordinates.org/india-heads-for-regionalnavigation.november-2006.php

 

[Armand2REP]

My source post dates yours, also from the official... sorry.

 

[anoop_mig25]

when is putin going to visit in india is first half of 2010 march or 2011 march.

 

[AkhandBharat]

Your source says the accuracy will be less than 20 metres, nothing more.

 

[Armand2REP]

Fine, its acceptable at 20m accuracy. Its not like India plans on bombing a car with a missile everyday. The objective is independent operation which will be achieved with IRNSS.

7.6m is required for safety standards of Indian civil aviation. What makes 20m acceptable? You can't use it for weapons or docking navigation. Nothing that is supposed to do in peace time can be matched by the free GPS signal offered by the US. Its only purpose is for an independent solution during war time not reliant on USA. Its usefulness in such a scenario is relegated to aiding troop manoeuvres which is limited at 20m. Even the INS of fighters have a better accuracy than that.

 

[AkhandBharat]

Yes, it won't be used during peacetime. GAGAN is for peacetime use which uses NAVSTAR. I'm pretty sure if the Indian government is spending crores of rupees on IRNSS, it will improve its accuracy with time to acceptable standards. GINS is on the cards, ISRO is contemplating it with the Indian government. So, the goal of independent operation will be achieved.

 

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