Small arms of India

[Mikesingh]

Russians acquired Ak-15 of 7.62x39 mm.
Then why we are choosing ak-103.

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The AK-15 is mainly aimed at elite units of the Russian military. They are replacing the AK 103 which is a cheaper variant. I guess costs matter!

 

[tharun]

If that so called cheap ak-103 is costlier than our ofb rifle than that's pure robbery.

The AK-15 is mainly aimed at elite units of the Russian military. They are replacing the AK 103 which is a cheaper variant. I guess costs matter!

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[ALBY]

If that so called cheap ak-103 is costlier than our ofb rifle than that's pure robbery.

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Reliability also counts............
......

 

[Vayuputra]

If that so called cheap ak-103 is costlier than our ofb rifle than that's pure robbery.

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What really matters is metallurgy of the rifle. Russian steel is known to withstand continuous fire for long period of time same can't be said of OFB guns. I want to see OFB made gun firing 10 mags back to back. Our guns looks great but in term of metallurgy it may not be at par with Russian rifles. Even Americans manufacture their guns from steel imported from Siberia.

 

[Hari Sud]

Why are we chasing Excalibur, INSAS or Ghatak rifles when decision by the army has been made to get a bigger punch rifle. 7.62x51 is what is being pursued.

If you must talk about rifles then talk about Israeli Ace, Caracal or South Korean rifles. One of these three rifles will be indian Army front line rifle. Also talk of AK-103 which army support soldiers will carry.

Big names rifle makers like FAL, AR, CZ, SAG did not lower the bulk price from $2,000 a piece and hence failed to make a deal. The selected rifles except the Israeli which is also Western version of AK rifle is priced at about $1200 to $2,000. The best one is Caracal which is an admixture of German and American design and built by American designers in Middle East and is priced less than $1,000. South Korean rifle has the same basis.

 

[Kchontha]

Why are we chasing Excalibur, INSAS or Ghatak rifles when decision by the army has been made to get a bigger punch rifle. 7.62x51 is what is being pursued.

If you must talk about rifles then talk about Israeli Ace, Caracal or South Korean rifles. One of these three rifles will be indian Army front line rifle. Also talk of AK-103 which army support soldiers will carry.

Big names rifle makers like FAL, AR, CZ, SAG did not lower the bulk price from $2,000 a piece and hence failed to make a deal. The selected rifles except the Israeli which is also Western version of AK rifle is priced at about $1200 to $2,000. The best one is Caracal which is an admixture of German and American design and built by American designers in Middle East and is priced less than $1,000. South Korean rifle has the same basis.

Because this is an insas thread. For 7.62x51 you can discuss on other thread also such as assault rifle thread.

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[Kchontha]

Why are we chasing Excalibur, INSAS or Ghatak rifles when decision by the army has been made to get a bigger punch rifle. 7.62x51 is what is being pursued.

If you must talk about rifles then talk about Israeli Ace, Caracal or South Korean rifles. One of these three rifles will be indian Army front line rifle. Also talk of AK-103 which army support soldiers will carry.

Big names rifle makers like FAL, AR, CZ, SAG did not lower the bulk price from $2,000 a piece and hence failed to make a deal. The selected rifles except the Israeli which is also Western version of AK rifle is priced at about $1200 to $2,000. The best one is Caracal which is an admixture of German and American design and built by American designers in Middle East and is priced less than $1,000. South Korean rifle has the same basis.

Because this is an insas thread. For 7.62x51 you can discuss on other thread also such as assault rifle thread.

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[tharun]

Japanese Type-89 on what base this rifle is made?

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[Unknowncommando 2]

Japanese Type-89 on what base this rifle is made?

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FN FNC

FN CAL

Type 89

Iron sight copied from type 89 and butt along with handguard from FN FNC/CAL :biggrin2:
Looks like combination of all of these

 

[binayak95]

FN FNC
View attachment 28305
FN CAL
View attachment 28306
Type 89
View attachment 28307

Iron sight copied from type 89 and butt along with handguard from FN FNC/CAL :biggrin2:
Looks like combination of all of these

You're right. The INSAS design is a direct derivative of FNC and the firing mech of Galil. Along with some aspects of G36. I always have maintained INSAS is a phenomenal design. Manufacturing quality is fuck all!!!

 

[Johny_Baba]

Japanese Type-89 on what base this rifle is made?

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FN FNC
View attachment 28305
FN CAL
View attachment 28306
Type 89
View attachment 28307

Iron sight copied from type 89 and butt along with handguard from FN FNC/CAL :biggrin2:
Looks like combination of all of these

Ah nope.

Though Type-89 looks similar in look to FN CAL // FNC,it's actually more near to another firearm.

Howa Type-89 is mainly based on AR-18 rifle i.e. this platform

video on Howa made AR-18

Just like Daewoo of Republic of Korea (i.e. South Korea) did with their Daewoo K-1 and K-2 series of firearms,Howa Industries of Japan acquired license and ToT to produce AR-18s there (mainly for exports,but some were used by Japanese SWAT and SF units,too).Howa made AR-18 // AR-180 s (civilian variant of AR-18) are considered as the top quality rifles among gun geeks.

so when they decided to developed a rifle of their own,they picked AR-18 as base platform and did their own jugaads on the platform to suit the requirements laid down by japanese "self-defense" forces and final result was Howa Type-89 that came out in 1989 and has been serving as standard assault rifle of the nation's armed units.

Though the design is largely based on AR-18,it also differs from it in many ways like
- it feeds from STANAG pattern magazines for 5.56 x 45mm rounds,while AR-18's magazine resembles in shape to STANAG one,but is proprietary one (though one can convert any STANAG magazine to AR-18 one by cutting off a little square-ish notch on its right side at proper place)
- AR-18's reloading mechanism is of spring loaded short stroke gas piston,while Type-89 too runs on a short stroke gas piston system,it is different to AR-18's one in many ways like,AR-18's one is spring loaded piston that directly strikes on the bolt carrier while Type 89's one is a tappet piston inside somewhat extended gas expansion port (AR-18's one is quite shorter) and piston is of shorter length that acts on operating rod which extends from bolt carrier (kinda looks like long stroke piston of kalashnikov).Finally,AR-18 doesn't have any gas regulator on it,while Type-89 does have a two position gas regulator (modes are usual "normal" and "adverse") plus a position to cut off gas supply,for using rifle grenades and so.
- AR-18 has 3 position trigger group with Safe-Semi-Auto modes,while Type-89 has 4 position trigger group with Safe-Semi-3 round burst-Full Auto modes.
- AR-18 has internal bolt hold open device which couldn't be operated manually,while Type-89 has AR-15 style bolt hold open device which can be used to manually lock the bolt back.(Though it's similar to AR-15's BHO it couldn't be used with STANAG pattern magazines as it requires different pattern of magazine follower to actuate,only Howa made magazines could operate it).
- Iron Sights on AR-18 are simple AR-15 style 2 position flip-pable peep (for ranges '200' meters and '400' meters) which has windage adjustment on it,too while front sight post is adjustable for elevation and is covered by metallic ears,very much AR-15-ish.Now on Type-89 it has a single peep with windage adjustments on right knob and range adjustments on left knob(here adjustments vary for 50 metres,starting from 1,- ,2,-,3,-,4,-,5 and so,'dash' indicating 50 meters like 150m,250m and so),while front sight post has elevation adjustments.

and what not.

So yeah,Type-89 is kinda unique in regard of its features but has its root in AR-18 design.Similar story is there for Daewoo K1/K2 series of firearms.

Just like Howa Type-89,there are many other firearms that directly or indirectly belong to the AR-18 family,like
- SA-80
- H&K G-36
- FN SCAR
and so.

 

[WolfPack86]

Unknowncommando 2 can you post pictures of Negev light machine gun.

 

[ghost]

Do read ,this is from the horse's mouth.

Also please do take note:

Corruption in Rifle factory Ishapore
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-rifle-factory-probe/articleshow/61147545.cms

Workers smuggling sophisticated weapons parts out of the Rifle Factory to the terrorists.

The decade-old racket serviced Maoist outfits in India and, possibly, terror modules operating from Nepal, Kolkata Police's Special Task Force officials said after arresting Ajay Pandit alias Guddu, Jayshankar Pandey, Umesh Roy alias Bhola and Kartik Sahu from Babughat on Sunday.

Roy and Sahu, contracted workers at the Ishapore Rifle Factory, were passing on the consignment to Pandey and Pandit. Interrogation of the four led cops to two junior works managers of the defence establishment, Sukhada Murmu and Sushanta Basu, who were then arrested.

https://m.dailyhunt.in/news/india/e...ctory+weapons+racket+incident-newsid-87396579

No one is against indigenous products,but do not peddle shit in the name of Indigenization and expect people to support it. Indigenization need to be done,but in correct way ,with accountability ,top class products,work ethics and quality management.

 

[devhensh]

This info about Col Mahadik, comes as a complete surprise !!!....This has to be the same Col Mahadik of PARA SF, who was on deputation to RR, when he was martyred by terrorist bullets (as far as my information)......Then where is the info above coming from ???? and Does RR even use 9mm carbines ???

 

[Kchontha]

A lot of discrepancy is found on these chat. Despite EME not being a frontline combat force this person seems to have gone there regularly.

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[Raj Malhotra]

Some kid rambling nonsense... Using some military jargon which he learnt from Uncle

 

[ghost]

View attachment 28520
This info about Col Mahadik, comes as a complete surprise !!!....This has to be the same Col Mahadik of PARA SF, who was on deputation to RR, when he was martyred by terrorist bullets (as far as my information)......Then where is the info above coming from ???? and Does RR even use 9mm carbines ???

An army colonel was killed when he was hit by a bullet during an accidental discharge of the fire from his personal weapon in Anantnag district on Monday.

The incident occurred at 4.20 pm when Colonel JV Mahadik of Corps of Artillery was travelling in his vehicle. Posted at Station Headquarters, Khundroo in the Anantnag district of South Kashmir, Colonel Mahadik suffered grievous wounds and was shifted to the hospital where he was declared dead on arrival.
https://www.dnaindia.com/india/repo...ischarge-of-fire-from-personal-weapon-2629197

A lot of discrepancy is found on these chat. Despite EME not being a frontline combat force this person seems to have gone there regularly.

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Total fwd service 12 years out of 21 years in service.

Served in kupwara as Infantry attachment.

Now on deputation to DRDO. Maybe next you will demand his phone number and address. Believe what you want to believe ,I rest my case.

 

[cyclops]

Do read ,this is from the horse's mouth.

Also please do take note:

Corruption in Rifle factory Ishapore
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-rifle-factory-probe/articleshow/61147545.cms

Workers smuggling sophisticated weapons parts out of the Rifle Factory to the terrorists.

The decade-old racket serviced Maoist outfits in India and, possibly, terror modules operating from Nepal, Kolkata Police's Special Task Force officials said after arresting Ajay Pandit alias Guddu, Jayshankar Pandey, Umesh Roy alias Bhola and Kartik Sahu from Babughat on Sunday.

Roy and Sahu, contracted workers at the Ishapore Rifle Factory, were passing on the consignment to Pandey and Pandit. Interrogation of the four led cops to two junior works managers of the defence establishment, Sukhada Murmu and Sushanta Basu, who were then arrested.

https://m.dailyhunt.in/news/india/e...ctory+weapons+racket+incident-newsid-87396579

No one is against indigenous products,but do not peddle shit in the name of Indigenization and expect people to support it. Indigenization need to be done,but in correct way ,with accountability ,top class products,work ethics and quality management.

Imagine that.
Contracted factory workers giving weapons to Maoists.

My best guess is corrupt, politicsbaaz unions, quite a lot of whom in DPSUs and other public sectors who bend leftist had some hand in it.

Even more damning is the fact that Ishapore Rifle Factory is in West Bengal, so commies having a hand cannot be discounted.

Another reason why the monopoly of unions in India should be challenged and popular defence contracts should go to the far more efficient and expeditious private sector.

 

[devhensh]

An army colonel was killed when he was hit by a bullet during an accidental discharge of the fire from his personal weapon in Anantnag district on Monday.

The incident occurred at 4.20 pm when Colonel JV Mahadik of Corps of Artillery was travelling in his vehicle. Posted at Station Headquarters, Khundroo in the Anantnag district of South Kashmir, Colonel Mahadik suffered grievous wounds and was shifted to the hospital where he was declared dead on arrival.
https://www.dnaindia.com/india/repo...ischarge-of-fire-from-personal-weapon-2629197


.

OK....So it was a diffrent Col Mahadik....too many similarities so the confusion and question...thanks for the clarification ....

And, i don't doubt what Mr. Anand is writing...I believe, i am not qualified to JUDGE or question what a serving officer writes....I come from a family of serving officers and i know, what it takes to be one !

 

[Shaitan]

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