Small arms of India

[hardip]

we had tried many so called world class stuff's but they dont work in -50° siachin and +50° in sandy desert . near abut all ur so called world class failed in preliminary tests

Possibly..

but may be not currently best Rifle not in this competition..

Like. AK 12/200, G36 A2 ,HK416A5, and few AR model..

I don't know why all its not in competition..

Otherwise..india need to do.. like UK.. they want.. signature rifle..nd also.. update.. 21 rifle..

so they given Contract toH&K for redesign L80 rifle..
and result is awesome.. UK have Best nd Tredmarkable rifle

India has to go on this way.

Give contract to HK for Our INSAS.. Jai hind

 

[guru-dutt]

yeah i think improving excalibur with adjustable butt, ambidextrous controls,picatinny rails etc. Excalibur rifles fired 24,000 rounds with only 2 stoppages it perform well better than foreign rifles. Lets give excalibur to indian army infantry and mciws to special forces because one cannot give entire army with multicalibur rifles. Besides excalibur cost 60,000 rs i do know cost of mciws. While it is possible to give mciws chambered .5.45 nato round to normal soldiers and give 7.62 soviet rounds to para commandos, rr, sff, ghatak commandos etc.

what we need is a bullpup version of excalibar assult rifle with 18" chrome plated barrel of 5.62 calibuar with 5.62X41mm ammo and with at least three piccatenni rails one at 6'O clock postion and one at 12 'O clock postions while one on either side on 9 or 3 'O clock postion and thats it and no need for multi cal hokus phokus

 

[hardip]

but sir...

what is the Excalibur Rifle.. 's RPM


It must be Minimum 750-900 than it can be.. A GOOD choice for Indian Army..

because RPM is most nd must needed. requirement.. for any army in 21 century battle.

 

[guru-dutt]

but sir...

what is the Excalibur Rifle.. 's RPM


It must be Minimum 750-900 than it can be.. A GOOD choice for Indian Army..

because RPM is most nd must needed. requirement.. for any army in 21 century battle.

any rifle with 650 RPM is good for indian army as we need semi automatic and fully automatic modes and the main thing is accuracy as most of our engements require a weapon capable of firing with accuracy at ranges of 50 to 450 meters every thing above it is a bonus . what we need is a simple robust and accurate under all conditions assult rifle which is controlable even in automatic mode

 

[hardip]

any rifle with 650 RPM is good for indian army as we need semi automatic and fully automatic modes and the main thing is accuracy as most of our engements require a weapon capable of firing with accuracy at ranges of 50 to 450 meters every thing above it is a bonus . what we need is a simple robust and accurate under all conditions assult rifle which is controlable even in automatic mode

Okk.. sir but..

today 's Every..
Country..which is use their primary rifle..

which is.. not less than 800 -900 rpm

see.. 5.56 rifle
tavor.21 ......900rpm
m4a1, .......900rpm
AK 103,107,108,200 .....700-900 rpm
qbz-95 .........900rpm
t-91 ......900rpm
Colt Canada C7 rifle ......900rpm
m16 A4 ......800-900rpm
Bushmaster m4a2 .......900rpm
famas G2....1100 rpm with 450 meter
fn2000....850 rpm..
FX-05 Xiuhcoatl .......800rpm


and G36 standard Rifle...750.. with range 850 meter...

and which is under650 it's range over 600-800 mtr
also with.. 7.62 round..

so..
I think.. india change their think..

 

[guru-dutt]

Okk.. sir but..

today 's Every..
Country..which is use their primary rifle..

which is.. not less than 800 -900 rpm

see.. 5.56 rifle
tavor.21 ......900rpm
m4a1, .......900rpm
AK 103,107,108,200 .....700-900 rpm
qbz-95 .........900rpm
t-91 ......900rpm
Colt Canada C7 rifle ......900rpm
m16 A4 ......800-900rpm
Bushmaster m4a2 .......900rpm
famas G2....1100 rpm with 450 meter
fn2000....850 rpm..
FX-05 Xiuhcoatl .......800rpm


and G36 standard Rifle...750.. with range 850 meter...

and which is under650 it's range over 600-800 mtr
also with.. 7.62 round..

so..
I think.. india change their think..

thing is owr conditions are diffrent i mean a single platform has to be used on frigid cold hights siachin and the same gun platform will be used in jungels of north east or south india or thar desert of rajasthan hence owr platform needs something they call "lakkar hazam patharr hazam" which a single platform is used without modifications even with dirt and grime condotions or freezing cold to 55 degrees scorching battle ground

excallibur i think can fire 750-850 with ease hence is respectable and more than adequate what we actually need is a compact bull pup version which even with the but folded lenth of excalibar still retains 18" barrel in place of 13" which it has now it will be great for long range shooting and with compactness and ease to be used in CQB scenarios much like a desi version of tevor

 

[aagni99]

NEW DELHI: When it comes to the Army, a modern, reliable assault rifle is the very basic - the primary weapon of an infantry soldier posted either on the border or deployed for counter militancy missions in the hinterland.

However, despite a four year process to select a new generation rifle to replace the glitch prone Indian made INSAS, the Army is still not close to a viable option, with a new desi weapon being pushed by DRDO getting mixed reviews during ongoing user trials.

With the INSAS rifle - developed by DRDO and introduced in service in 1996 - not adequately meeting its requirements, the Army started the search for a new basic weapon in 2011. The contract was cancelled earlier this year - contenders failed to meet the stringent requirements - and a new variant of the INSAS, called the Excalibur, was fielded by DRDO.
The new rifle is being tested presently by the Army at two locations, with trials now at the final stage and results expected by February. However, several officials that ET spoke with say that the results till now have been mixed, with one team finding the rifle inadequate and the other seeing it as an improvement over the INSAS. While the final results will take a few more weeks to come in, Army officials say that while the Excalibur would be an improvement over the INSAS, it would at best be a replacement rifle. "The Excalibur is an upgraded version of the INSAS, it is not a new rifle but the older weapon has been given additional features," a senior Army officer said.
But on the Army's parameters for a futuristic assault rifle, the Excalibur fails to make the cut. "It is at best a replacement for the INSAS rifles in service but for a future weapon, the rifle simply does not have the technical qualities," another officer told ET.

The Army is in urgent need to get a replacement for the INSAS but is also keen to get a world class product. Army officials have told ET that the ideal process would involve a fair competition in which the Excalibur also take ..


Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[guru-dutt]

NEW DELHI: When it comes to the Army, a modern, reliable assault rifle is the very basic - the primary weapon of an infantry soldier posted either on the border or deployed for counter militancy missions in the hinterland.

However, despite a four year process to select a new generation rifle to replace the glitch prone Indian made INSAS, the Army is still not close to a viable option, with a new desi weapon being pushed by DRDO getting mixed reviews during ongoing user trials.

With the INSAS rifle - developed by DRDO and introduced in service in 1996 - not adequately meeting its requirements, the Army started the search for a new basic weapon in 2011. The contract was cancelled earlier this year - contenders failed to meet the stringent requirements - and a new variant of the INSAS, called the Excalibur, was fielded by DRDO.
The new rifle is being tested presently by the Army at two locations, with trials now at the final stage and results expected by February. However, several officials that ET spoke with say that the results till now have been mixed, with one team finding the rifle inadequate and the other seeing it as an improvement over the INSAS. While the final results will take a few more weeks to come in, Army officials say that while the Excalibur would be an improvement over the INSAS, it would at best be a replacement rifle. "The Excalibur is an upgraded version of the INSAS, it is not a new rifle but the older weapon has been given additional features," a senior Army officer said.
But on the Army's parameters for a futuristic assault rifle, the Excalibur fails to make the cut. "It is at best a replacement for the INSAS rifles in service but for a future weapon, the rifle simply does not have the technical qualities," another officer told ET.

The Army is in urgent need to get a replacement for the INSAS but is also keen to get a world class product. Army officials have told ET that the ideal process would involve a fair competition in which the Excalibur also take ..


Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

in short it mean foriegn maal lobby in purchase department of indian army is really pissed of with the new PMO & MOD with there obsession to give desi excalibur assult rifels more importence than the foriegn maal as it takes away all those free foriegn trips with "friends and family" and of course kickbacks :bounce:

 

[hardip]

u..mean...

Government... said..

to more time. to get new assult Rifle..

till than..

for us... we keep comments.. "Indian Future Rifle "


Nd..for Our Soldiers..

when u see a Militants
Take ur Goddess..name..
and try to shoot.. him.. with.
ur Crappi Rifle.....


:x


jai hind

Keep.. Dying. u..mean...

Government... said..

to more time. to get new assult Rifle..

till than..

for us... we keep comments.. "Indian Future Rifle "


Nd..for Our Soldiers..

when u see a Militants
Take ur Goddess..name..
and try to shoot.. him.. with ur Crappi Rifle.....

nd keep dying..for us country


:x


jai hind

 

[guru-dutt]

u..mean...

Government... said..

to more time. to get new assult Rifle..

till than..

for us... we keep comments.. "Indian Future Rifle "


Nd..for Our Soldiers..

when u see a Militants
Take ur Goddess..name..
and try to shoot.. him.. with.
ur Crappi Rifle.....


:x


jai hind

Keep.. Dying. u..mean...

Government... said..

to more time. to get new assult Rifle..

till than..

for us... we keep comments.. "Indian Future Rifle "


Nd..for Our Soldiers..

when u see a Militants
Take ur Goddess..name..
and try to shoot.. him.. with ur Crappi Rifle.....

nd keep dying..for us country


:x


jai hind

do you really think top generals of army really care much about the hardships faced by foot soldiers with respect to assult rifle , bullet proof jackets and helmates a or even decent boots when the issue is about there kick backs ?

 

[sayareakd]

I think INSAS is decent rifle, we need to upgrade it, make it modern and work on making it lethal. I am sure this rifle can serve us for next 15 years with ease.

For Counter terrorists use we have to make sure that INSAS rifle bullet will kill terrorist at the distance of 400 meters at one shot. Or at least make him useless to offer any resistance.

 

[kr9]

When it comes to being less lethal and the overstated inefficiency of the INSAS (and why the CRPF/CI squads prefer the AK), the problems may very well have been with 5.56mm ammo at ranges over 150 meters.

I was doing some research and found reports/observations as filed by the NATO forces in the middle east which state that in many cases, the target would not feel or even show signs of being hit with the 5.56 ammo. The result have been the development of the SCAR-H, HK 417 and other large caliber rifles using the NATO 7.62x51mm ammo to augment the M16/M4 family of weapons.

Unfortunately, these reports were not known until recently. The INSAS however, being used extensively due to our nation being a target for cross border terrorism, may have become a highly publicized scapegoat for the alleged issues with the 5.56 ammo even though boasting higher accuracy.

Note:There are also contradictory reports stating that there are no issues with the 5.56 mm ammo. I would appreciate if someone who has used both ammo can give their views on this subject.

The major issue which I find with the INSAS (1B1 & Excalibur) is with the 400 meters effective range (as advertised by DRDO/ARDE). In the current combat scenarios, our soldiers should be proficient enough and armed with Std.Issue.Rifles that can engage point targets upto 600 meters.
I do not understand why our INSAS range is limited (even with the 18" barrel) when longer ranges are achieved by other rifles of the 5.56mm caliber (some even with 16" barrels).

Also, I do not like the all-translucent mags. In CQB, they give away too much info about when the soldier is likely to reload. Maybe it can be translucent in the mag rear (the thin side facing the soldier).

As for the 7.62x51mm argument, I believe it is necessary to supplement our arsenal with this ammunition (both for asymmetrical(CI/SF) and conventional warfare. If we can modify our home grown FN FAL(1A) rifles by inducting it into the program (with mounts, black polymer, SCAR style muzzle brakes & maybe with shorter barrels), I believe our INSAS platform is quite good and can deliver superior rifles of both calibers to our soldiers.

 

[ezsasa]

When it comes to being less lethal and the overstated inefficiency of the INSAS (and why the CRPF/CI squads prefer the AK), the problems may very well have been with 5.56mm ammo at ranges over 150 meters.

I was doing some research and found reports/observations as filed by the NATO forces in the middle east which state that in many cases, the target would not feel or even show signs of being hit with the 5.56 ammo. The result have been the development of the SCAR-H, HK 417 and other large caliber rifles using the NATO 7.62x51mm ammo to augment the M16/M4 family of weapons.

Unfortunately, these reports were not known until recently. The INSAS however, being used extensively due to our nation being a target for cross border terrorism, may have become a highly publicized scapegoat for the alleged issues with the 5.56 ammo even though boasting higher accuracy.

Note:There are also contradictory reports stating that there are no issues with the 5.56 mm ammo. I would appreciate if someone who has used both ammo can give their views on this subject.

The major issue which I find with the INSAS (1B1 & Excalibur) is with the 400 meters effective range (as advertised by DRDO/ARDE). In the current combat scenarios, our soldiers should be proficient enough and armed with Std.Issue.Rifles that can engage point targets upto 600 meters.
I do not understand why our INSAS range is limited (even with the 18" barrel) when longer ranges are achieved by other rifles of the 5.56mm caliber (some even with 16" barrels).

Also, I do not like the all-translucent mags. In CQB, they give away too much info about when the soldier is likely to reload. Maybe it can be translucent in the mag rear (the thin side facing the soldier).

As for the 7.62x51mm argument, I believe it is necessary to supplement our arsenal with this ammunition (both for asymmetrical(CI/SF) and conventional warfare. If we can modify our home grown FN FAL(1A) rifles by inducting it into the program (with mounts, black polymer, SCAR style muzzle brakes & maybe with shorter barrels), I believe our INSAS platform is quite good and can deliver superior rifles of both calibers to our soldiers.

It is time we let go of INSAS in any form. It is time we redesign a new assault rifle from scratch.

Shorter range of our ammo can also linked to the type of gunpowder used in manufacturing of 5.56 by OFB.

 

[Chinmoy]

At 400 metres, given the condition of body armour, 5.56 round would not be too effective in killing. We do need a larger calibre.

 

[delta]

also, a major grouse in using the 5.56 round was that it was meant to incapacitate the enemy soldier, who would then be assisted by his fellow soldiers hence draining the enemy manpower. the reason why it's not so effective against terrorists is that they don't give a fuck if their buddy is wounded. they're there to get killed (hopefully taking out a few good guys in th process). that's where the 7.62 round is much more powerful and deadly.

the 5.56 rounds of m4 and ak74 are extremely lethal (m4's rounds split up inside the body and tear up much more, while the ak's bullet tumbles once it enters the flesh), but the question of stopping power still remains i guess. the 7.62 packs a greater punch in any case.

maybe what we need is the 6.5 round. i read somewhere that it carrier the same punch of the 7.62 while still being light enough. Koi practical usage wala ho to kripya prakaash daale ispe.

 

[NiJ1910]

What about 6.8 insas exlibure refile?

 

[guru-dutt]

When it comes to being less lethal and the overstated inefficiency of the INSAS (and why the CRPF/CI squads prefer the AK), the problems may very well have been with 5.56mm ammo at ranges over 150 meters.

I was doing some research and found reports/observations as filed by the NATO forces in the middle east which state that in many cases, the target would not feel or even show signs of being hit with the 5.56 ammo. The result have been the development of the SCAR-H, HK 417 and other large caliber rifles using the NATO 7.62x51mm ammo to augment the M16/M4 family of weapons.

Unfortunately, these reports were not known until recently. The INSAS however, being used extensively due to our nation being a target for cross border terrorism, may have become a highly publicized scapegoat for the alleged issues with the 5.56 ammo even though boasting higher accuracy.

Note:There are also contradictory reports stating that there are no issues with the 5.56 mm ammo. I would appreciate if someone who has used both ammo can give their views on this subject.

The major issue which I find with the INSAS (1B1 & Excalibur) is with the 400 meters effective range (as advertised by DRDO/ARDE). In the current combat scenarios, our soldiers should be proficient enough and armed with Std.Issue.Rifles that can engage point targets upto 600 meters.
I do not understand why our INSAS range is limited (even with the 18" barrel) when longer ranges are achieved by other rifles of the 5.56mm caliber (some even with 16" barrels).

Also, I do not like the all-translucent mags. In CQB, they give away too much info about when the soldier is likely to reload. Maybe it can be translucent in the mag rear (the thin side facing the soldier).

As for the 7.62x51mm argument, I believe it is necessary to supplement our arsenal with this ammunition (both for asymmetrical(CI/SF) and conventional warfare. If we can modify our home grown FN FAL(1A) rifles by inducting it into the program (with mounts, black polymer, SCAR style muzzle brakes & maybe with shorter barrels), I believe our INSAS platform is quite good and can deliver superior rifles of both calibers to our soldiers.

all this can simply be taken care of with a simple adjustment make a bullpup version of excalibur with a 22" chrome vandium palted barrel and use .56X51mm ammo for it problem solved and that too very cheaply

 

[sayareakd]

At 400 metres, given the condition of body armour, 5.56 round would not be too effective in killing. We do need a larger calibre.

INSAS bullet not meant to kill enemy. It is made with purpose to injure enemy. So its doing its job.

 

[kr9]

all this can simply be taken care of with a simple adjustment make a bullpup version of excalibur with a 22" chrome vandium palted barrel and use .56X51mm ammo for it problem solved and that too very cheaply

We have a very good track record and exposure to the bull-pups with the Tavors. I also remember seeing a bull-pup version of INSAS somewhere.
Does anyone know what is stopping our army from adopting this configuration? Even the MCIWS did not have a bull-pup variant.

 

[guru-dutt]

We have a very good track record and exposure to the bull-pups with the Tavors. I also remember seeing a bull-pup version of INSAS somewhere.
Does anyone know what is stopping our army from adopting this configuration? Even the MCIWS did not have a bull-pup variant.

thing is those in arms purchase mafia have there tentakels in various OFB factorties and foriegn companies which are genrally into legacy designs while bullpup is a new concept and since they want to make more profit so this foriegn maal lobby only wants legacy designs maybe but bullpup is the future im too confused about there outdated approach