Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

[Johny_Baba]

On a lighter note...have you seen suppressive fire with an ANTI MATERIAL RIFLE ....Just see the rate of fire possible with a two man team...and imagine the amount of destruction it can do to the other side on LOC....Best part ...we have lots of original Denel NTW 20 rifles as well as it's indian made version called the Vidhwansak.....This is a force multiplier, in proper hands and proper use......

Sweet!

That reminds me of old times where two men teams used to provide such rapid suppressive fire with their large caliber rifles like this soviet PTRD-41.

 

[Haldiram]

But that's my point. Tactical aggression hasn't stopped them from infiltration or violating the ceasefire. Just now another Jawan died, and there are no signs that they are stopping infiltration attempts. We haven't deterred any of their activities.

Border domination has stopped the infiltrators from reaching the mainland Kashmir. There will obviously be contact at the LOC, but compare that with the situation in 90's where people could easily go to POK, take training and come back and cause mayhem on the Indian side.

The end game of any counter-insurgency is to insulate the affected area from external influences and create a new narrative in the vacuum. We've achieved great success there. The situation has been brought down from a level of armed militancy to a few hundred stone pelters.

The final piece of the puzzle is the gradual political end game. First there was NC which brought the separatists into mainstream. Then PDP came to power accusing the NC of not being Islamist enough, now there will be independent MLAs which will come up on both sides of PDP to pull away their crowds. One will say that PDP is not pro-development enough (Sajjad Lone) and the other group will say that PDP is not jihadi enough (Rashid Engineer). The former will draw the sane ones towards himself, the latter will draw the insane ones and the PDP voter base will be split down the middle. This will further split the Kashmiri consensus in the valley into smaller parties. It splits the consolidation of discontent from "us Kashmiri Muslims versus India" to "us PDP workers vs those NC workers vs BJP vs Congress vs independents" and creates a nice confusion in the valley.

As long as you don't take up arms, you are welcome to participate in the political circus. Meanwhile, the army keeps eliminating those who pick up guns. Every decade, the situation improves a bit.

No point annexing POK until Kashmir is properly Hinduised first. Until then, there will be contact with the enemy at the LOC. That is the cost of a civilizational clash.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Border domination has stopped the infiltrators from reaching the mainland Kashmir. There will obviously be contact at the LOC, but compare that with the situation in 90's where people could easily go to POK, take training and come back and cause mayhem on the Indian side.

The end game of any counter-insurgency is to insulate the affected area from external influences and create a new narrative in the vacuum. We've achieved great success there. The situation has been brought down from a level of armed militancy to a few hundred stone pelters.

The final piece of the puzzle is the gradual political end game. First there was NC which brought the separatists into mainstream. Then PDP came to power accusing the NC of not being Islamist enough, now there will be independent MLAs which will come up on both sides of PDP to pull away their crowds. One will say that PDP is not pro-development enough (Sajjad Lone) and the other group will say that PDP is not jihadi enough (Rashid Engineer). The former will draw the sane ones towards himself, the latter will draw the insane ones and the PDP voter base will be split down the middle. This will further split the Kashmiri consensus in the valley into smaller parties. It splits the consolidation of discontent from "us Kashmiri Muslims versus India" to "us PDP workers vs those NC workers vs BJP vs Congress vs independents" and creates a nice confusion in the valley.

As long as you don't take up arms, you are welcome to participate in the political circus. Meanwhile, the army keeps eliminating those who pick up guns. Every decade, the situation improves a bit.

No point annexing POK until Kashmir is properly Hinduised first. Until then, there will be contact with the enemy at the LOC. That is the cost of a civilizational clash.

Yeah, I agree. My only question is what were we doing in the 90s, or rather not doing that the situation got so bad? Did we not have enough men at the border back then to stop infiltration, or to give a befitting reply to pakis? Anyway, yes, for now all we can do is to stop as much infiltration as possible, while making sure to give the paki army a harder time at the LOC. And simultaneously eliminate the few terrorists in the valley.

 

[Darth Malgus]

Yeah, I agree. My only question is what were we doing in the 90s, or rather not doing that the situation got so bad? Did we not have enough men at the border back then to stop infiltration, or to give a befitting reply to pakis? Anyway, yes, for now all we can do is to stop as much infiltration as possible, while making sure to give the paki army a harder time at the LOC. And simultaneously eliminate the few terrorists in the valley.

90s wasn't an insurgency, it was a warzone with Jihadis from Afghanistan, Chechnya and other hotspots in the ass end of the world coming to Kashmir. Those supposed big shots got their butts handed back to them after the formation of the RR. Which is actually what led to the Kargil war.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

90s wasn't an insurgency, it was a warzone with Jihadis from Afghanistan, Chechnya and other hotspots in the ass end of the world coming to Kashmir. Those supposed big shots got their butts handed back to them after the formation of the RR. Which is actually what led to the Kargil war.

So let's say that the Taliban wins in Afghanistan after the Americans leave, which they eventually have to, then will we return to something like the 90s?

 

[Mikesingh]

The end game of any counter-insurgency is to insulate the affected area from external influences and create a new narrative in the vacuum. We've achieved great success there. The situation has been brought down from a level of armed militancy to a few hundred stone pelters.

Try telling that to Chiddi who only today blasted the government for using force in Kashmir and blaming it for the situation in Kashmir!!! Isn't this loudmouth aware that the Congis are squarely responsible for the disaster that is Kashmir by their rigging of elections in 1987 when the Kashmiris lost faith in democracy which was 'won' by Abdullah?

It was the starting point of all discontent, frustration and distrust with the belief that the people of the state were not actually participants in democracy, but were being governed by the Cong puppets. Sallauddin was one of the many casualties who had actually won his seat but was given out and who then fled to POK and spawned the terrorist organization, the HuM out of frustration. The result is there for all to see.

So let's say that the Taliban wins in Afghanistan after the Americans leave, which they eventually have to, then will we return to something like the 90s?

The Americans are there to stay - till the end of time. They will never leave Afghanistan. The stakes are too high. After all, Afghanistan is geostrategically located and has a trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth to exploit. They will never hand over this bonanza to the Chinese or the Russians.

 

[Haldiram]

Yeah, I agree. My only question is what were we doing in the 90s, or rather not doing that the situation got so bad? Did we not have enough men at the border back then to stop infiltration, or to give a befitting reply to pakis? Anyway, yes, for now all we can do is to stop as much infiltration as possible, while making sure to give the paki army a harder time at the LOC. And simultaneously eliminate the few terrorists in the valley.

The only variable thing here is the enemy's response. It's not a constant flow of militancy we are battling. There are sudden spikes in militancy, and these are linked to the global 'great game'. The provocation was the worst during the cold war. After the 90's India liberalized its economy and opened up to Western corporations, so it wasn't seen as an outright American enemy anymore, so Pakistan was left to nurse its thousand cut plan on its own. Indian stature grew through 90's and 2000's and Pakistan got sucked into a costly war on terror post 9/11. All of this degraded their ability to cause attrition.

Young people today take for granted the stature India has. The situation was very bad in the 90's. We were a poor nation by all counts. Our economy had collapsed, and we had to sell all our gold to get some funds to feed our population. We were fighting under these circumstances.

Check this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Indian_economic_crisis

By 1985, India had started having balance of payments problems. By the end of 1990, it was in a serious economic crisis. The government was close to default, its central bank had refused new credit and foreign exchange reserves had been reduced to such a point that India could barely finance three weeks’ worth of imports which led the Indian government to airlift national gold reserves as a pledge to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) in exchange for a loan to cover balance of payment debts.

As a collective group, we are like a lower middle class person who has recently stepped into middle class. An expensive war could push us back by a couple decades, so we are playing it cool. This is the philosophy behind Doval's statement "We will punch not above our weight, nor below. We will grow our weight and punch accordingly". The same weight growth is in process. We are a 10k year old civilization, and a few decades here and there is just the blink of an eye in the history of a nation. If breaking Pakistan into 4 takes 10 more years, so be it, let's endure the pain till then. Pakistan is just beginning to be isolated and degraded with 4G warfare. It will take a decade for their military to start feeling the pangs of a resource shortage. At the same time, all the weapons we have purchased (S400, M777, Rafale, AC, Apache) will take more than 5 years to arrive. Our condition today is the same it was when the UPA left it. The major weapons deliveries will start only in 2019.

 

[Haldiram]

Try telling that to Chiddi who only today blasted the government for using force in Kashmir and blaming it for the situation in Kashmir!!! Isn't this loudmouth aware that the Congis are squarely responsible for the disaster that is Kashmir by their rigging of elections in 1987 when the Kashmiris lost faith in democracy which was 'won' by Abdullah?

It was the starting point of all discontent, frustration and distrust with the belief that the people of the state were not actually participants in democracy, but were being governed by the Cong puppets. Sallauddin was one of the many casualties who had actually won his seat but was given out and who then fled to POK and spawned the terrorist organization, the HuM out of frustration. The result is there for all to see.


The Americans are there to stay - till the end of time. They will never leave Afghanistan. The stakes are too high. After all, Afghanistan is geostrategically located and has a trillion dollars worth of mineral wealth to exploit. They will never hand over this bonanza to the Chinese or the Russians.

His comments are not based in reality. He is facing a black money probe by the CBI, his son's assets are being raided. He is blackmailing the system.

PS : The rigging in itself was not a bad move. India was in a hurry to end the unrest and impose the illusion of normalcy. The problem was that the rigging was exposed. Otherwise, I totally support rigging and any other forms of manipulation the state wants to use to bring the insurgency down. It was a botched up operation but it was done in good faith.

Doval was operational in Kashmir in the 80's and 90's. This was the time when Kukka Parrey was won over. Some tricks worked for us, some didn't. We were stretched thin. We were also embroiled in the Sri Lankan civil war at the same time and the N.E unrest and we were facing repeated airplane hijackings, and reeling under economic pressure. We were in a tight spot then. At one moment it looked as if Kashmir would be lost permanently. Compared to all of that, we are much comfortable now. The number of terrorists has been brought down to just a few dozens.

 

[Kshithij]

90s wasn't an insurgency, it was a warzone with Jihadis from Afghanistan, Chechnya and other hotspots in the ass end of the world coming to Kashmir. Those supposed big shots got their butts handed back to them after the formation of the RR. Which is actually what led to the Kargil war.

In 1990, USSR collapse had a major impact on India which had been depending on it foolishly. India could have fared much better had India not wasted time from 1950 to 1980 doing nothing. China was in a far worse situation at independence in 1949 with mass death,severe destruction from Japanese hands but they still managed to develop nuclear bombs by 1964 and satellite by 1970. They even made nuclear reactors in 1980. Why was India sitting like fools till then?

Obviously, life is a sequence of event. It is true that nothing could have been done in 1990s, but many things could have been done for that 30 years from independence.The sins of the past came down haunting in 1990. India deliberately brought this upon itself.

So let's say that the Taliban wins in Afghanistan after the Americans leave, which they eventually have to, then will we return to something like the 90s?

No, it won't as India has militarised well and has built a lot of irrigation system to achieve food surplus. It will be manageable this time.

The only variable thing here is the enemy's response. It's not a constant flow of militancy we are battling. There are sudden spikes in militancy, and these are linked to the global 'great game'. The provocation was the worst during the cold war. After the 90's India liberalized its economy and opened up to Western corporations, so it wasn't seen as an outright American enemy anymore, so Pakistan was left to nurse its thousand cut plan on its own. Indian stature grew through 90's and 2000's and Pakistan got sucked into a costly war on terror post 9/11. All of this degraded their ability to cause attrition.

Young people today take for granted the stature India has. The situation was very bad in the 90's. We were a poor nation by all counts. Our economy had collapsed, and we had to sell all our gold to get some funds to feed our population. We were fighting under these circumstances.

Check this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Indian_economic_crisis



As a collective group, we are like a lower middle class person who has recently stepped into middle class. An expensive war could push us back by a couple decades, so we are playing it cool. This is the philosophy behind Doval's statement "We will punch not above our weight, nor below. We will grow our weight and punch accordingly". The same weight growth is in process. We are a 10k year old civilization, and a few decades here and there is just the blink of an eye in the history of a nation. If breaking Pakistan into 4 takes 10 more years, so be it, let's endure the pain till then. Pakistan is just beginning to be isolated and degraded with 4G warfare. It will take a decade for their military to start feeling the pangs of a resource shortage. At the same time, all the weapons we have purchased (S400, M777, Rafale, AC, Apache) will take more than 5 years to arrive. Our condition today is the same it was when the UPA left it. The major weapons deliveries will start only in 2019.

India has militarised well recently. Some more infrastructure for militarisation is pending like fighter jets, conventional submarines, aircraft carriers, BMD is needed which in my estimate will be by 2024-25 by when India would have been a full fledged power. The imported weapons don't really count except for temporary respite. Real power is when we are capable of manufacturing as many equipments as we want even when they are being destroyed continually in warfare. Mere hundred planes will serve no purpose at all.

Our civilisation was destroyed and brought back by the colonial masters. The retarded ancestors had embraced buddhism and forgot to fight for dharma. Cheap mindsets, superstition, personality cults developed and that caused people to even forget what is life. So, son't overestimate it.

Pakistan is not being isolated. Pakistan is getting full support from Arabs. USA, especially Trump is angry at Arabs for manipulating USA elections and making extremely obscene campaign using oil funded media to impose Hillary and her aide Huma Abedin. USA and Israel were always wary about muslims in general but only allied witth them to take out USSR. Muslims hated USSR as USSR had imposed Atheism on muslims in central Asia and were expanding and hence joined hands with USA.

As of now, the muslims are supported by various countries like USA, China and EU for their oil supply. If India attacks them, these countries will be angry as their economies will collapse. So, there is kind of a mexican standoff. No one like muslims, but a kind of moratorium over war has been imposed. The major countries will ensure that anyone who starts a war before oil runs out is opposed severely and all forms of sanctions imposed on it. In addition, they may supply weapons to destroy the country that started the war.

So, as of now, there is little chances of warfare. When oil depletes, then things will be back to square one. The moratorium will be lifted. India is capable of fighting a warfare now if necessary, but it will be pointless. Pakistan is not the main enemy. Pakistan has no infrastructure, no arms factory. Whatever is destroyed will be funded by Arabs and technology provided by Turkey to rebuild. Pakistan runs on doles and remittance. There is nothing to destroy there. The key enemy is the source of the funds - Arabs and Pan-Islamism (all muslims). They can't be destroyed till oil is flowing. Fighting a war will result in damage to India, oil sanctions and hard work to rebuild while Pakistan will be rebuilt. When oil runs out, there will be pandemonium anyways and it is soon. Why be in a hurry?

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

Once bitten, twice shy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEW DELHI: China has agreed to stop road-construction activity across the Line of Actual Control+ (LAC) near Bishing in Tuting area of Arunachal Pradesh, with Indian troops returning the two earth excavators and other equipment seized from Chinese workers in the region last month.

"The Tuting incident has been resolved. A border personnel meeting (BPM) was held two days ago," said Army chief General Bipin Rawat on Monday. As forDoklam near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction+ , where the rival troops were locked in an eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation for 73 days before finally disengaging on August 28, Gen Rawat said there was a major reduction in the number of soldiers on the Chinese side.

The BPM in Arunachal Pradesh, with brigade commanders from the two sides leading the talks, was held on January 6. It was in late-December that Chinese road-construction personnel had intruded almost a kilometer into Indian territory near the Bishing village in the Upper Siang district of the state but were forced to retreat after being stopped by Indian troops, who seized their two excavators and other equipment on December 28, as was reported earlier by TOI.

Unlike the belligerence shown during the Doklam standoff, the Chinese troops this time "reacted very maturely to accept that the differing perception of the LAC" had led its construction workers "to inadvertently transgress" into Indian territory near the Bishing village. "They assured us they will take care to ensure their construction personnel do not cross over into our side again," said an officer.

But road alignment and construction bids as well as troop transgressions across the 4,057-km LAC, which stretches from Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh, are highly unusual in winter months. It is an indication of the heightened tensions between the two armies after the Doklam stand-off, which saw both armies move additional infantry battalions, tanks, artillery and missile units forward towards the LAC.

~ https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com....com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=TOIMobile

 

[Kalki_2018]

Next time just destroy the vehicles or confiscate them. I am sure BRO can use them to same for building roads on our side.

 

[Kshithij]

Next time just destroy the vehicles or confiscate them. I am sure BRO can use them to same for building roads on our side.

We are speaking of Chinese, not Bangladeshi or Pakistanis. If we can let 1 crore bangladeshis in, pay millions for Rohingya, one should not over react to China

 

[Kalki_2018]

They are being taken care of one at a time and yes with chinese you have to overreact and push them back.

 

[Kshithij]

They are being taken care of one at a time and yes with chinese you have to overreact and push them back.

Over reacting is unnecessary. When they have accepted the LAC politely, respond politely to them.

 

[Kalki_2018]

If they had acted politely, IA wouldn't have to confiscate the vehicles.

 

[AMCA]

EXCLUSIVE: China helps Pakistan build bunkers on state borders
Chinese want to tap gas reserves on the other side of border, say the report.
Sushant Pareek | Updated: Tuesday 9 January 2018 7:29 IST, DNA

• 
  

Construction activities going in border villages of Pakistan (DNA)
Having failed to create disturbance in Kashmir, Pakistan is now opening a new front on India’s western front. With help of China, new bunkers and airbases are coming up on international border adjoining Rajasthan.Intelligence agencies have obtained photographs taken in Pakistan, which shows huge construction activities in border villages of Pakistan. The BSF has flagged this in a report to higher authorities last month.


Bang opposite to Ghotaru border in Jaisalmer, around 25 k away airbase is ready in Kadanwali’s Khairpur. It is being used for Chinese fighter planes chain good J-7, J.F-17, Y-8 radar, and other modern planes have been landing here. There is also an uptick in the presence of Chinese troops over the past few months.

The Chinese have been building another airport in Tharparkar, close to Barmer. This base too is about 25km from the Indian border. The third airport is being built in Mithi along Gujarat border. Chinese flags are visible on construction sites.

China is also helping it’s “all-weather friends” in the construction of 100 bunkers while 200 dugouts have already been built on strategic locations. According to intelligence reports, advanced surveillance systems are being transported in a large vehicle. China said to have helped Pakistan in the purchase of modern convoy jamming system from Switzerland.

Besides, winter clothes and other equipment have been bought from a Hong Kong-based company including especially kind of hand gloves. The reason China is bestowing favours to Pakistan is the latter’s oil and gas reserves in this region, which it wants to procure. Intelligence reports suggest that around 10,000 Chinese workers from 30 companies are working in oil exploration and setting up a refinery.

The most wanted Hafeez Saeed too was seen on Rajasthan border last year. It is suspected that the bunkers built along the border could be used to facilitate infiltration of terrorists in Indian border.

“Pakistan can go to any length to create trouble in India despite global pressure. It makes Gujarat and Rajasthan more vulnerable and sensitive. Pakistan can open a new front in this sector to divert attention from Kashmir. The ongoing actitivy of setting up bunkers and airbase are part of this conspiracy and Indian needs to be vigilant,” Defence expert Dr. AS Behl said. When queried, BSF IG Anil Paliwal refused to divulge anything. He asked to contact authorities in Delhi.

FROM THE REPORTS
In border villages of Pakistan. The BSF has flagged this in a report to higher authorities last month. Bang opposite to Ghotaru border in Jaisalmer, around 25 k away airbase is ready in Kadanwali’s Khairpur. It is being used for Chinese fighter planes have been landing here.

MOST WANTED
The most wanted Hafeez Saeed too was seen on Rajasthan border last year. It is suspected that the bunkers built along the border could be used to facilitate infiltration of terrorists in Indian border. Besides this, equipments have been bought from a Hong Kong-based company.

 

[Kshatriya87]

EXCLUSIVE: China helps Pakistan build bunkers on state borders
Chinese want to tap gas reserves on the other side of border, say the report.
Sushant Pareek | Updated: Tuesday 9 January 2018 7:29 IST, DNA

• 
  

Construction activities going in border villages of Pakistan (DNA)
Having failed to create disturbance in Kashmir, Pakistan is now opening a new front on India’s western front. With help of China, new bunkers and airbases are coming up on international border adjoining Rajasthan.Intelligence agencies have obtained photographs taken in Pakistan, which shows huge construction activities in border villages of Pakistan. The BSF has flagged this in a report to higher authorities last month.


Bang opposite to Ghotaru border in Jaisalmer, around 25 k away airbase is ready in Kadanwali’s Khairpur. It is being used for Chinese fighter planes chain good J-7, J.F-17, Y-8 radar, and other modern planes have been landing here. There is also an uptick in the presence of Chinese troops over the past few months.

The Chinese have been building another airport in Tharparkar, close to Barmer. This base too is about 25km from the Indian border. The third airport is being built in Mithi along Gujarat border. Chinese flags are visible on construction sites.

China is also helping it’s “all-weather friends” in the construction of 100 bunkers while 200 dugouts have already been built on strategic locations. According to intelligence reports, advanced surveillance systems are being transported in a large vehicle. China said to have helped Pakistan in the purchase of modern convoy jamming system from Switzerland.

Besides, winter clothes and other equipment have been bought from a Hong Kong-based company including especially kind of hand gloves. The reason China is bestowing favours to Pakistan is the latter’s oil and gas reserves in this region, which it wants to procure. Intelligence reports suggest that around 10,000 Chinese workers from 30 companies are working in oil exploration and setting up a refinery.

The most wanted Hafeez Saeed too was seen on Rajasthan border last year. It is suspected that the bunkers built along the border could be used to facilitate infiltration of terrorists in Indian border.

“Pakistan can go to any length to create trouble in India despite global pressure. It makes Gujarat and Rajasthan more vulnerable and sensitive. Pakistan can open a new front in this sector to divert attention from Kashmir. The ongoing actitivy of setting up bunkers and airbase are part of this conspiracy and Indian needs to be vigilant,” Defence expert Dr. AS Behl said. When queried, BSF IG Anil Paliwal refused to divulge anything. He asked to contact authorities in Delhi.

FROM THE REPORTS
In border villages of Pakistan. The BSF has flagged this in a report to higher authorities last month. Bang opposite to Ghotaru border in Jaisalmer, around 25 k away airbase is ready in Kadanwali’s Khairpur. It is being used for Chinese fighter planes have been landing here.

MOST WANTED
The most wanted Hafeez Saeed too was seen on Rajasthan border last year. It is suspected that the bunkers built along the border could be used to facilitate infiltration of terrorists in Indian border. Besides this, equipments have been bought from a Hong Kong-based company.

Pakis can't even build bunkers for themselves?

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk

 

[Mikesingh]

Pakis can't even build bunkers for themselves?

At this rate the impotent Pakis will ask the Chinks to make their babies for them too!

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

EXCLUSIVE: China helps Pakistan build bunkers on state borders
Chinese want to tap gas reserves on the other side of border, say the report.

See the +ve, napaakis can't even build their own bunkers and depend on their masters for basic border infra too.

And should I even begin talking about the quality of cheeni products?

 

[Screambowl]

See the +ve, napaakis can't even build their own bunkers and depend on their masters for basic border infra too.

And should I even begin talking about the quality of cheeni products?

They can build bunkers
But they want to have chinese soldiers present in POK so this bunker building is just an excuse to grant them presence.