LETHALFORCE
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Try to stay on topic of India in NATO take UNSC discussion to another thread
and what would be that? please share your points.Though geography might be an issue.
The importance of organisations with missions are the following...India in the SCO?
Luckily, China has a veto in both the SCO and the UNSC.
Then I wonder why the Indian government officially declared that it wanted to join the SCO:SCO ranks at the bottom below any nation with a US defence pact with teeth. The ethnic cleansing in Kyrgyzstan showed it was Russia/CSTO that runs Central Asia, not SCO. And very badly at that....
Why not, it costs practically nothing to join as SCO has a pathetic $30 million budget and an equally pathetic influence in world affairs with ZERO missions.Then I wonder why the Indian government officially declared that it wanted to join the SCO:
So why don't you love your own country, stop your military technology projects, and forget your dream to win a war against US. Why do you guys compare your country with US and why you hate US?The kind of remarks as uttered by the prada guy are typical of indian nationalists, and they clearly show that these people are not really interested in the well-being of their majority impoverished country men, hence we can conclude that all their professed love for india is fake in its essence.
SCO helps secure central Asian oil and gas reserves.Why not, it costs practically nothing to join as SCO has a pathetic $30 million budget and an equally pathetic influence in world affairs with ZERO missions.
It's funny that you mention deja vu as the basis of your argument, when it was the NATO countries themselves who acted against India during the 1971 war. Can you tell me which country sent the 7th Fleet into the Bay of Bengal to prevent further Indian military action against Pakistan? Even the Royal Navy, which was apparently stuck in the 19th century mentality, tried to do so. Without Soviet intervention on our behalf, the war might have had a different ending.I hate to agree with Yan Luo Wang, but he/she has a fair point. China will never (read again, never) agree to India's membership of any club of which it is a prominent veto-welding member- be it the UNSC or the SCO. One of China's key foreign policy goals is to keep India down as a second rate power while the Middle Kingdom emerges in all its glory.
Secondly, I just laugh at Indians believing that Indo-Chinese relations are "improving". On what basis? Foreign trade? India's foreign trade with China is a pittance (I think it is around £50 billion last time I looked) compared to China-Japan or China-US. That gives us no leverage over China. Border disputes? Those remain to be unsolved. The committees keep meeting- I think they have met 11 times since their creation- but no solution is even formulated, let alone implemented. This is the same ludicrous 1962 style Hindi-Chini bhai bhai logic that led to our humiliation in that war, and will also lead to a de ja vu if we are not careful.
China is nobody's friend, last of all India's. China's eyes are fixed on fulfilling what it believes to be its destiny- to make the Middle Kingdom the centre of the world once again. Part of that strategy is methodically eliminating all potential competitors, including India. The "string of pearls" has been a wildly successful policy- Pakistan, Myanmar, even Nepal and Sri Lanka are all cosier to Beijing than to Delhi. Once China's military capabilities are strong enough- they will assert their position over the border issue.
They know we stand alone.
SCO doesn't do anything as their policy is "non-interference" which is saying nicely it is neutered.SCO helps secure central Asian oil and gas reserves.
If you don't want to choose a side then sit by yourselves. No need to join an alliance. Joining the SCO is effectively doing nothing as it says in the charter they will do nothing.NATO does nothing except force us to choose sides. We don't want that to happen. We have friendly relations with both US and Russia along with China. Choosing NATO would mean gaining nothing.
India would never be allowed into NATO as its mission is about protecting the West from external threats. It used to be Russia but now it is a crusade against Islam which is the only excuse they can find to keep it relevant.If we ever fight a war against China, NATO would be the first to abandon us, sanction us and then force us to declare a ceasefire. No way no how mateys.
LOL wtf are we 'nationalists' supposed to do then? Continually focus on the negatives that will take decades to effectively eradicate? We aren't talking about administering a flu vacc or something.The kind of remarks as uttered by the prada guy are typical of indian nationalists, and they clearly show that these people are not really interested in the well-being of their majority impoverished country men, hence we can conclude that all their professed love for india is fake in its essence.
I don't mean in the military sense. I meant India will have easier access to oil blocks in the CAR without having to go through multiple bureaucratic hurdles as is the case now.SCO doesn't do anything as their policy is "non-interference" which is saying nicely it is neutered.
Oh God! This is typical of some of the new generation macho "India is a superpower already" people who can barely walk but they want to run first.It's funny that you mention deja vu as the basis of your argument, when it was the NATO countries themselves who acted against India during the 1971 war. Can you tell me which country sent the 7th Fleet into the Bay of Bengal to prevent further Indian military action against Pakistan? Even the Royal Navy, which was apparently stuck in the 19th century mentality, tried to do so. Without Soviet intervention on our behalf, the war might have had a different ending.
I don't trust the West anymore than I trust China. If a conflict broke out, NATO would be the first to run away from the subcontinent, if we're lucky. If we're unlucky, they will openly act in their interests even if it means acting against India, as they have before. I place improvement of Sino-Indian relations as a higher priority because we share the same neighborhood and have one of the longest borders in the world, and it is in both India's and China's benefit to have friendly relations.
The "String of Pearls" are meant to secure energy supplies in transit through the Indian Ocean, and therefore does not include Nepal (which, btw, has reintroduced its "India First" foreign policy). India has friendly relations with all the "Pearls" except Pakistan. As of now, the PLAN (Chinese Navy) is not capable of exerting Chinese power in the Indian Ocean, much less face off with the Indian Navy. The "String of Pearls" poses absolutely no military threat to India.
Taking that you have a point, what do you think India should do for its impoverished countrymen?The kind of remarks as uttered by the prada guy are typical of indian nationalists, and they clearly show that these people are not really interested in the well-being of their majority impoverished country men, hence we can conclude that all their professed love for india is fake in its essence.
Russia is the closest which can be called as a friend. Infact non-alliance has helped us if you weren't so ignorant about many other events. If we were fully dependent on other countries do you think drdo, isro (yes they could be better/efficient but thats besides the point) etc would be where they are currently ? we'd be no more incompetent than the pakistanis that cant make shit and beg and whore themselves to get weapons which are still inferior to ours because the so called "nato-ally" doesn't get the latest weapons.Any other county we can call our "friend" now? Russia? They're more interested in flogging their military kit to Beijing (and selling us a dodgy Gorshkov) than working together with us on common strategic goals. Is there a single country we can call our ally? No, because Nehruvian non-alliance has failed us miserably.
You don't make friends and then join a club. You join it TO make friends. Nobody owes India anything. India will have to show itself to be a potential ally of NATO (and that it can offer NATO something in quid pro quo) first. But the benefits are massive. In a stroke we will be able to remove the massive dagger that hangs on our head- China.
You can shout yourself hoarse that the Indian armed forces can deal with it, but let me tell you that we have a tendency to under-estimate what the Chinese military build up is like- the sheer scale of it. Nuclear arsenals are meaningless because nobody would use them in fear of retribution. China does not want to occupy India, but I believe it plans to settle the border dispute with India in a short but decisive military campaign around 25-30 years from now with the dual aim of wresting control of Arunachal but more importantly, humiliating India and truncating its geopolitcal growth once and for all.
China's day of reckoning will come, as was the case with Imperial (and then Nazi) Germany in the 20th century. And when it does look our way, I want to make sure we have some friends to stare back with us. Right now, we stand alone. And even Churchill needed a Roosevelt to stand up to Hitler after the fall of France.
partial quoteOr we recognise the threat ....... and build some serious alliances (cue: join NATO).