Saudi Arabia loaned Pakistan $1.5bn to shore up economy

[thethinker]

Latest state as of 20 March 2014 :

It still isn't a convincing economy recovery as you are suggesting.

 

[Compersion]

No comments? Is Tyagi a liar?

The above quote is in the context of terrorists taking over nuclear weapons. Also the mention of "contingency plans" of the USA that implies that the Paki nuclear weapons can have contingency plans on them ... think about that. It wonderful for you to take a Indian opinion out of context and play it on making Pakistan be a sensible, reasonable and credible nuclear weapon state. If Pakistan nukes (assumed capability) were possible to fall into terrorist hands that would cause havoc and panic. Its good India made that statement for Pakistan since they appreciate the principle behind that.

Further more pertinent to Pakistan is the international and worldwide countries are still waiting for the why, what and how from this guy:

Abdul Qadeer Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2003, Libya gave up the weapons-related material including the gas-ultra centrifuges. These gas-ultra centrifuges were marked as early models that Abdul Qadeer Khan developed in the 1980s, known as PakSat-I

Abdul Qadeer Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't think that the only parameter that India and the international looks at with reference to Pakistan having (assumed) nuclear capability is "safety" from "terrorists". Being a responsible nuclear state is much more profound.

 

[Neo]

Neo dude chill, do you realize what this could have in Pakistan ? it could divide the already fragile and divided Pakistani community. You are just attacking India when India has nothing to do with this topic. I hope you do realize that that article was written by a fellow Pakistani (Najam Sheti). If a small number of Pashtoons can cause so much damage to Pakistan, imagine the country divided on Shia/ sunni lines. Or do you expect the Shias to sit back quietly and watch.... its not gonna happen. Pakistan has over the years SOLD itself to the highest bidder, thinking about small time gains. Its sold itself to the Americans and the Saudis ... and see where the Afghan revolution has taken you. You guys sold yourself to the War on terror, took a $2 billion a year bribe from the Americans, but caused a $20 Billion a year damage to your countries economy. Seriously have some foresight, or is it that Pakistanis have lost all sight of the future or hope; to see what could happen.

.
Wtf?? I am attacking India? Did you read the full thread? Did you not see the trolling by usual trolls who spoil each and thread?
Provide some moderation here first so we can have a rational debate here.

I am aware of our demons and what our corupt leaders have done to the country but fighting WoT was never our choice, we were made to fight it at gunpoint. It cost the country more than $60 billion sofar.

Jihad against Soviets, again not our first choice, we were under US embargo till the Soviets invaded Pakistan.
US agreed to look the other way and temporarily ignore our nuclear programme if we allowed CIA to fight a covert war in Afghanistan.
CIA and MI5 recruited 40.000 jihadists from 40 countries and set up training camps in Pakistan. So the jihadis are an American invention but we get the blame.
US did not provide a clean up plan to retrieve countless sophisticated weapons or 40.000 jihadis but left the region once their goals were achieved.
They shamelesly imposed economic and weapon embargo again in 1987!!

Radicalism of the region is a direct result of the fall out of two decades of war in Afghanistan and proxy wars that are being fought.
Musharraf did a good job by putting us back on track but foreign elements again succeeded in killing Benazir and a US puppet in the form of Zardari did the rest of the demage.

Instead of blaming Pakistan you should look at different facts and parties to understand that we are the biggest victim here.

 

[Compersion]

Bad news for you guys, around $52 billion FDI from China, $10 billions from Arab friends and another $5 billion expected from Japan, Turkey and South Korea during current government.

You might also have to thank the USA. Seems their drones are doing good work. There is a little normalcy and also more focus on economic parameters.

Further why dont you say such things like:

Pakistan prefers to focus on development and economy and move away from its failed policies from before like promoting terrorism and hostile policies towards its neighbors. Having that feeling of normalcy is good right. The memory of Pakis are amazing.

Also Pakis have gone through this path many times before. Its not anything new. Even Musharraf had a good economic patterns and it crumbled because of the skeletons in the closet ...

 

[Blackwater]

Back on topic, a lot more Arab investment coming our way in form of refineries, LNG terminals, infrastructure and lot more.
Expect the economy to get a huge boost

expect gazi army to get boost as 80% will $$$ will go to gazi fauj

 

[Neo]

Latest state as of 20 March 2014 :

It still isn't a convincing economy recovery as you are suggesting.

Nonetheless the economy is showing signs of recovery with fast growth in LSM and exports.
Last quarter recorded 5% growth, much higher than 3% in previous year.

Just wait and see how $6 billion per hear FDI from China will help us stabalise the country within two years.

 

[Blackwater]

Nonetheless the economy is showing signs of recovery with fast growth in LSM and exports.
Last quarter recorded 5% growth, much higher than 3% in previous year.

Just wait and see how $6 billion per hear FDI from China will help us stabalise the country within two years.

how economy is growing??? is ur export increasing or inflation decreasing??

just printing more notes is not termed as rise in economy??

 

[Neo]

The above quote is in the context of terrorists taking over nuclear weapons. Also the mention of "contingency plans" of the USA that implies that the Paki nuclear weapons can have contingency plans on them ... think about that. It wonderful for you to take a Indian opinion out of context and play it on making Pakistan be a sensible, reasonable and credible nuclear weapon state. If Pakistan nukes (assumed capability) were possible to fall into terrorist hands that would cause havoc and panic. Its good India made that statement for Pakistan since they appreciate the principle behind that.

Further more pertinent to Pakistan is the international and worldwide countries are still waiting for the why, what and how from this guy:

Abdul Qadeer Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abdul Qadeer Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't think that the only parameter that India and the international looks at with reference to Pakistan having (assumed) nuclear capability is "safety" from "terrorists". Being a responsible nuclear state is much more profound.

.
We don't need India's opinion about our nuclear safety, the US is confident that our nukes are safe.
And about being a responsible nuclear state, safe us the crap! US got the nuclear technology from Germans and passed it to UK and later Israel.
You abused your nuclear agreement with Canada and detonated a bomb in 1974.

If we are not a responsible state, please enlighten us how China built 5 reactors in Chashma which was abandoned by France in 1978? How can China now build two mega reactors in Karachi? Why is USA silent on that??

 

[thethinker]

Nonetheless the economy is showing signs of recovery with fast growth in LSM and exports.
Last quarter recorded 5% growth, much higher than 3% in previous year.

Just wait and see how $6 billion per hear FDI from China will help us stabalise the country within two years.

Optimistic.

Three things to consider :

First : What is the plan to revive and sustain employment? 2 years won't cut it if you plan to grow and sustain.

It is disappointing as of now :

Unemployment in Pakistan set to increase in 2014: ILO report – The Express Tribune

The Global Employment Trends report issued by the International Labour Organisation (ILO) projected that Pakistan's unemployment rate — 5.17% in 2013 — is set to rise slightly increase and then remain more or less the same for five more years due to the kind of political unrest plaguing the country.

For 2014, ILO claimed unemployment rate will likely rise to 5.29%.

The report stated that in the fifth year of the global recession, growth across the world decelerated and unemployment started to increase again, leaving an accumulated total of some 197 million people without a job in 2012.

Second : What is the plan to safeguard foreign investments in Pakistan given the current situation? You can't simply expect foreign funds to come and stay in when safety and security of life and production assets are at a constant risk of disruption.

Third : What about the power shortage that exists as of now? I believe India is/will be supplying electricity yes? What is your govt's long term policy on electricity production?

 

[Neo]

expect gazi army to get boost as 80% will $$$ will go to gazi fauj

Yes, as the economy expands there will be more funds for the defence of the country. But the Chinese FDI is going into economic development.
You can troll as much as you want but the economic growth will speak for itself.

 

[Blackwater]

Yes, as the economy expands there will be more funds for the defence of the country. But the Chinese FDI is going into economic development.
You can troll as much as you want but the economic growth will speak for itself.

chinese investment will be to build nuke reactor and development of gawadar port..

its another story how will that help common man of pakistan or only 500 wadere families and fauj and Chinese companies

 

[Neo]

Optimistic.

Three things to consider :

First : What is the plan to revive and sustain employment? 2 years won't cut it if you plan to grow and sustain.

It is disappointing as of now :

Unemployment in Pakistan set to increase in 2014: ILO report – The Express Tribune

The Global Employment Trends report issued by the International Labour Organisation (ILO) projected that Pakistan's unemployment rate — 5.17% in 2013 — is set to rise slightly increase and then remain more or less the same for five more years due to the kind of political unrest plaguing the country.

For 2014, ILO claimed unemployment rate will likely rise to 5.29%.

The report stated that in the fifth year of the global recession, growth across the world decelerated and unemployment started to increase again, leaving an accumulated total of some 197 million people without a job in 2012.

Second : What is the plan to safeguard foreign investments in Pakistan given the current situation? You can't simply expect foreign funds to come and stay in when safety and security of life and production assets are at a constant risk of disruption.

Third : What about the power shortage that exists as of now? I believe India is/will be supplying electricity yes? What is your govt's long term policy on electricity production?

.
Lot of these prognoses need to be reviewed. I agree that we have a long way to go but if you compare the situation with 1999 when Musharraf took over, you will see that we are back to same point. Under Musharraf we booked high growth of 8.4% in his fourth year.

Current situation is better because we have serious grants from China who intends to invest between $7-10 billion per year during the next five years. Half the investment is going in energy sector.

And donot forget the GSP Plus status from EU valid from January 1st this year which will help us increase the exports with 30-40%!

I am not a fan of Nawaz but what he has achieved in past 10 months is in redible! I am hopeful that we will ne back on track within a few years.

 

[Compersion]

.
We don't need India's opinion about our nuclear safety, the US is confident that our nukes are safe.
And about being a responsible nuclear state, safe us the crap! US got the nuclear technology from Germans and passed it to UK and later Israel.
You abused your nuclear agreement with Canada and detonated a bomb in 1974.

If we are not a responsible state, please enlighten us how China built 5 reactors in Chashma which was abandoned by France in 1978? How can China now build two mega reactors in Karachi? Why is USA silent on that??

The statement India had made ought to have been done by Pakistan. But it was not. India made it for Pakistan because the message of terrorists taking over nukes is really eccentric. The possibility of it even being talked about with reference to Pakistan is scary (and is not a good sign for Pakistan). And also India does not want to have such implications in its neighborhood especially when Pakistan does some illegal act(s) and the world and region would associate Pakistan with terrorists (that is already the case) and them having nukes. It is a unnecessary deviation.

Further if US is confident about Paki nukes. Why does US have contingency plans in place for Pakistan. What is the contingency plans it does not say "nuclear wearpons" it might be "nuclear plants" it might be "nuclear leaders - like AQ Khan". why does that mean. Yet there is contingency in place (and able to execute). You do not have contingency on something that you are confident about. Do you know what contingency planning is.

Next you mention about [x] getting nuclear technology from others. For example you mention Germany -> USA -> UK -> Israel. Also you state that India abused a nuclear agreement with Canada in 1970s. The discussion on Pakistan is much different since the countries and states that Pakistan was sending its (non-working) nuclear technology to were states that had signed Nuclear treaties (Iran, Libya, and North Korea and who knows which others).

Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan breached and went about clandestinely providing (now know to be non-working) nuclear technology to develop nuclear weapons to states that had signed international agreements saying they would not.

The examples you state were in place well before international agreements and the CTBT. What Pakistan did was after. What Pakistan did was unprecedented and a threat to the world order and peace and stability to the world and regions. Why did AQ Khan confess the way he did. What is he saying now. Pakistan really fails to understand international relations and law it seems and this is not the only instance.

Also with respect to Canada what has India done wrong do you mind to spell it out. If there were any issues with what you said India has resolved that and also the world and global world order does not think the same since India is moving in the right direction of being a responsible, credible and respectable nuclear weapon state with the appropriate agreements and recognition in place that the current system allows. That is admirable you must admit (since some of Paki leaders don't know what to say and respond and simply ask for the same - which would not be wise).

Finally you mention about how PRC built 5 reactors in Chashma. Are you saying that PRC has to thank Pakistan for its nuclear industry and nuclear capability.

Also the reason PRC can build reactors in Karachi is because of this absurd term used in international relations called "grand-fathering". But how much grand-fathering is allowed and why is it allowed i leave it to you to think about. Also what happens after "grand-fathering" for Pakistan is stopped and finished. What happens when there are guidelines and standards on "grand-fathering". Think about that.

Chinese-Pakistani Reactor Deal Moves Ahead | Arms Control Association

 

[thethinker]

.
Lot of these prognoses need to be reviewed. I agree that we have a long way to go but if you compare the situation with 1999 when Musharraf took over, you will see that we are back to same point. Under Musharraf we booked high growth of 8.4% in his fourth year.

Current situation is better because we have serious grants from China who intends to invest between $7-10 billion per year during the next five years. Half the investment is going in energy sector.

And donot forget the GSP Plus status from EU valid from January 1st this year which will help us increase the exports with 30-40%!

I am not a fan of Nawaz but what he has achieved in past 10 months is in redible! I am hopeful that we will ne back on track within a few years.

What about internal security, as in protecting foreign investments from radicals? Any steps taken to counter those threats? Nothing will happen if this isn't fixed first you know.

 

[Neo]

Vertical Proliferation is discussed in lengths in Worlsaffairsboard with very good argumengs by Canadian-Chinese veteran "OOE".
I don't have time or energy to debate it here.

Pakistan is a non signitory of NPT and therefor we and not under the obligation to trade our technology with other countries. This has always been our stance.

Current agreements with China stand for the capacity to produce 8800MW nuclear energy. By the time we have installed that, we will aready have mastered the technology to build our own reactors.
Afterall the Khushab heavy water reactors are locally designed with the help of China.
Total of five reactors is being built with the second plant expected to be completed this year.

 

[Neo]

What about internal security, as in protecting foreign investments from radicals? Any steps taken to counter those threats? Nothing will happen if this isn't fixed first you know.

Ofcourse this is a major concern, one that China seeks guarantees for.
It will be provided with heavier point defence. We are not going to mis the opportunity to waste $52 billions of investment from China over security concerns.

 

[Compersion]

Pakistan is a non signitory of NPT and therefor we and not under the obligation to trade our technology with other countries. This has always been our stance.

What are you trying to say - that what Pakistan did and what AQ Khan did was not wrong and does not break any international law and obligations and was correct. Do you mind to find a official source where that is said. That has got to be the biggest statement of the decade. What was the need for the AQ Khan confession.

Vertical proliferation.

The increase of weapon stockpiles by countries that currently have nuclear weapons, the improvement of technical sophistication or reliability of these weapons, and the development of new weapons, such as "mini-nukes" or battlefield nuclear weapons (vertical proliferation).

Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons: Opportunities for Control and Abolition

What does Vertical proliferation have any relation with a state breaking international law and obligations and went about clandestinely providing (non-working) nuclear technology to develop nuclear weapons to states that had signed international agreements saying they would not. Where does it say that nuclear weapon technology is given to others to improve the nuclear capability of the offeror from the offeree. Thats exceptional. Perhaps there is a confusion in your use of words.

Current agreements with China stand for the capacity to produce 8800MW nuclear energy. By the time we have installed that, we will aready have mastered the technology to build our own reactors.
Afterall the Khushab heavy water reactors are locally designed with the help of China.
Total of five reactors is being built with the second plant expected to be completed this year.

Its good to hear the Pakistan has its priorities right and is in tune with the rest of the world and understand international law.

 

[Blackwater]

@Neo ur finance minister mukar gaya

$1.5b does not have to be repaid: Ishaq Dar

$1.5b does not have to be repaid: Ishaq Dar – The Express Tribune

 

[BangersAndMash]

Nothing is free in this world and nothing is done from the goodness of the heart. The saudis will be getting "something" in the return, may be turn a blind eye to what happens in saudi funded madrassas in pakistan, who knows what favours the pakis are doing for the saudis!

 

[bennedose]

Ofcourse this is a major concern, one that China seeks guarantees for.
It will be provided with heavier point defence. We are not going to mis the opportunity to waste $52 billions of investment from China over security concerns.

LOL Good one! That should be a first for Pakistan!

52 billion is a standard Paki bluff to maintain honor and dignity. The Chinese are stupid, but not that stupid. Pakis bluff all the time and they are a nation of liars

Here
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/01/the-limits-of-the-pakistan-china-alliance

The Economic Relationship: Surprisingly Limited

Pakistan's portrayal of its relationship with China features exaggeration of the economic dimension of the relationship. Pakistani media routinely report huge numbers for investment and financing with the People's Republic of China (PRC), numbers that cannot be verified by any independent source, including by the Chinese government or the Chinese companies supposedly involved. While Pakistani officials talk of a total of $25 billion in Chinese investment in Pakistan so far, the PRC's official figure of direct investment through 2010 is $1.83 billion.[24]

PS where are those Jordanian F 16s you Paki liars?