Russian involvement in Syrian crisis

[Aaj ka hero]

Even the shittiest and most underfunded of militaries can hold their own in their territory

I think you didn't hear then neelam valley case just few months earlier.

 

[Waanar]

I think you didn't hear then neelam valley case just few months earlier.

Yes, true, but I'm talking more of a "Backed into a corner" case where there's nowhere to run. We'll just have to wait and see.
In any case, it'd be best if Porkis simply threw their guns to the ground like their fathers did.

 

[Neptune]

Not sure what to make of this but based on ridiculous Turkish fabrications and propaganda as of late I would say there is a good possibility it is a fake CGI or Borats spliced a bunch of frames together with CGI. Nothing matches between the first frame and second, different tire tracks and vegetation. Edit—I think the Turks probably took some drone video, either genuine footage or CGI or from elsewhere and spliced frames from other airstrikes to make it appear the target, real or fake got blown up.

 

[Neptune]

Another Turkish drone downed....funny all the people claiming Syrian Air defenses were ineffective trash....funny all the people claiming all these reports and claims of shot down drones were fake.

Yet slowly as Syria moved air defenses into Idlib more drones were downed. One must assume the drones shot down over Turkish controlled Idlib will never be acknowledged by the Turkish side nor will they want to share photos. There is talk that it has got so bad that Turkish drones are operating at low altitudes and mostly at night to a ovoid being shot down.



SwankyStas (@StasSwanky) Tweeted:
#Breaking

Очередной турецкий ударный БПЛА Bayraktar TB2 был сбит сирийскими Силами противовоздушной обороны в мухафазе Идлиб, Сирия. https://t.co/vgS1iHZbVD

 

[asianobserve]

Another Turkish drone downed....funny all the people claiming Syrian Air defenses were ineffective trash....funny all the people claiming all these reports and claims of shot down drones were fake.

Yet slowly as Syria moved air defenses into Idlib more drones were downed. One must assume the drones shot down over Turkish controlled Idlib will never be acknowledged by the Turkish side nor will they want to share photos. There is talk that it has got so bad that Turkish drones are operating at low altitudes and mostly at night to a ovoid being shot down.



SwankyStas (@StasSwanky) Tweeted:
#Breaking

Очередной турецкий ударный БПЛА Bayraktar TB2 был сбит сирийскими Силами противовоздушной обороны в мухафазе Идлиб, Сирия. https://t.co/vgS1iHZbVD

These drones are pretty much disposable assets. And they fly lower than combat jets. So, yes Assad's AD is useless:

Turkey once again destroyed Syrian Pantsir:

Turkey destroyed another Russian-supplied Pantsir-S1 in Syria
https://defence-blog.com/army/turkey-destroyed-another-russian-supplied-pantsir-s1-in-syria.html


And Syrian's attempt ay trying to ambush a Turkish F-16 went nowhere:

Syria attempted to shoot down Turkish F-16 fighter aircraft
https://defence-blog.com/news/syria-attempted-to-shoot-down-turkish-f-16-fighter-aircraft.html

 

[Neptune]

These drones are pretty much disposable assets. And they fly lower than combat jets. So, yes Assad's AD is useless:

Turkey once again destroyed Syrian Pantsir:

Turkey destroyed another Russian-supplied Pantsir-S1 in Syria
https://defence-blog.com/army/turkey-destroyed-another-russian-supplied-pantsir-s1-in-syria.html


And Syrian's attempt ay trying to ambush a Turkish F-16 went nowhere:

Syria attempted to shoot down Turkish F-16 fighter aircraft
https://defence-blog.com/news/syria-attempted-to-shoot-down-turkish-f-16-fighter-aircraft.html

Firstly no one takes a blogs seriously, secondly my friend, the Turks destroyed not just another Pantsirs but:



• 3,200 regime troops
• nearly 160 tanks
• 100 artillery units
• 3 warplanes
• 8 helicopters
• 7 air defense systems
• <10 ammunition depots

They also shot down Santa, the space station and for good measures killed another 50,000 Kurdish fighters


As for that blog claiming the Syrians tried to shoot down F-16. It said the S-200 tried to shoot down an F-16, the problem is you were probably not listening when I told you the S-200 can only hit high altitude targets, it’s also does help that it’s probably as old as your grandparents too. Apart from those two factors Turkish F-16 operate in an area with mountainous terrain where F-16s can simply avoid being spotted by radar or break a radar lock by dividing amongst the mountains.

 

[Neptune]

@asianobserve i forgot to mention about your comments about those Turkish drones being “disposable” well it first seem your tone changed from ‘those air defenses don’t work’ to well.... it’s disposable now.

The important thing I wanted to mention is that Turkish drones are not disposable. Firstly they already lost a good chunk of their heavy armed drones and secondly Turkey is under an arms embargo, meaning once those drones are shot down there is no way to replace them because of imported parts.

 

[panzerfeist1]

How much do these drones cost? Maybe Turkey should have bought the okhotnik-B. It has some pretty badass 120km 315kg glide bombs which 4 can be fitted inside internally or the option to use heavy glide bombs for a 65km range.

 

[asianobserve]

Firstly no one takes a blogs seriously, secondly my friend, the Turks destroyed not just another Pantsirs but:



• 3,200 regime troops
• nearly 160 tanks
• 100 artillery units
• 3 warplanes
• 8 helicopters
• 7 air defense systems
• <10 ammunition depots

They also shot down Santa, the space station and for good measures killed another 50,000 Kurdish fighters


As for that blog claiming the Syrians tried to shoot down F-16. It said the S-200 tried to shoot down an F-16, the problem is you were probably not listening when I told you the S-200 can only hit high altitude targets, it’s also does help that it’s probably as old as your grandparents too. Apart from those two factors Turkish F-16 operate in an area with mountainous terrain where F-16s can simply avoid being spotted by radar or break a radar lock by dividing amongst the mountains.

Actually it's not just any blog. It's a staffed online military magazine whose news are often ahead of mainstream media.

On the issue of altitude, after Gulf War 1 NATO fighters usually attack from high altitudes to give them a broader look at targets below amd more time to evade SAMs or other aerial threats.

On the other hand, UAVs like Predator and what Turkey is using are primarily designed for low to medium altitude use. Hence, these UAVs are vulnerable to SHORADS. But that's the whole point of these UAVs, tgey can go down low (compared to manned fighters) because they are disposables.

 

[asianobserve]

@asianobserve i forgot to mention about your comments about those Turkish drones being “disposable” well it first seem your tone changed from ‘those air defenses don’t work’ to well.... it’s disposable now.

The important thing I wanted to mention is that Turkish drones are not disposable. Firstly they already lost a good chunk of their heavy armed drones and secondly Turkey is under an arms embargo, meaning once those drones are shot down there is no way to replace them because of imported parts.

Disposable means they are relatively cheap to acquire and operate and can be lost to enemy fire without loosing pilots. Just look at the size of those Turkish UAVs, they're relatively small. So Turkey sent swarms of them over Idlib.

 

[StealthFlanker]

95% of F-16 kills are against ground attack aircraft, helicopters, trainer aircraft, drones or are simply made up

95%? that rubbish
During the Soviet–Afghan War, between May 1986 and January 1989, Pakistan Air Force F-16s shot down at least 10 intruders from Afghanistan. Four of the kills were Afghan Su-22s bombers, three were Afghan transports (two An-26s and one An-24), and one was a Soviet Su-25 bomber. Most of these kills were achieved using the AIM-9 Sidewinder
28 April 1981, Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mi-8
14 July 1981, Israel F-16 shot down 1 Syrian Mig-21
21 April 1982, Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mig-23
26 May 1982 Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mig-21
9 June 1982, Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Nazakh was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot recovered
9 June 1982, Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Sofie was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot killed
9 June 1982,Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Yasin was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot killed
all 3 pilots above come from 17 FBR Saygal AB
10 June 1982, 6 Syrian Mig-23BN from 17 FBR Saygal AB, 22 MiG-21bis , 4 Su-22M2 from 34 FBR Nasiriyah AB were shot down over Lebanon by F-15 and F-16, F-15 shot down 7 of them
11 June 1982, Israel F-16 piloted by Eilezer Shkedi shot down 42 Mig-23, 1 SU-22 and 1 Gazelle in one mission,
27 December 1992 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-25 – A MiG-25 crossed the no-fly zone and an F-16D shot it down with an AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. It is the first kill with an AIM-120, and also the first USAF F-16 kill
17 January 1993 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-23 – A USAF F-16C shoots down a MiG-23 when the MiG locks the F-16 up.
28 February 1994, four J-21 and two IJ-21 Jastrebs, and two J-22 Oraos had violated the no-fly-zone to conduct a bombing run on Novi Travnik, The pilots of the two J-22s spotted the F-16s above them and after their attack, they left the area in low-level flight towards Croatia, where the U.S. jets could not follow. Meanwhile, the rest of the group was engaged and attacked. Of the six Yugoslavian jets engaged, four were shot down (one by AMRAAM and the others by Sidewinders)
24 March 1999 – During Operation Allied Force, Dutch F-16AM J-063 flown by Major Peter Tankink shot down one Yugoslavian MiG-29, flown by Lt. Colonel Milutinovic, with an AMRAAM missile. The pilot of the stricken jet ejected safely. This marked the first air-to-air kill made by a Dutch fighter since WW2
4 May 1999 – A lone Yugoslav MiG-29 flown by Lt. Col. Milenko Pavlović attempted to intercept a large NATO formation that was returning to base having just bombed Valjevo (the pilot's home town). It was engaged by a pair of USAF F-16CJs from the 78th Fighter Squadron and shot down with AIM-120
23 March 2014 – A SyAAF MiG-23 was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16, when it allegedly entered Turkish air space during a ground attack mission against Al Qaeda-linked insurgents
16 May 2015 – Two Turkish Air Force F-16s shot down a Syrian Mohajer 4 UAV firing two AIM-9 missiles after it trespassed into Turkish airspace for 5 minute
16 October 2015 – An Orlan-10 Russian made (UAV) was downed by a Turkish F-16, after it had violated the Turkish airspace, near borders with Latakia
24 November 2015 – A Russian Sukhoi Su-24M was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16 near the Syria–Turkey border
27 February 2019 – India confirmed that it lost one MiG-21 in an air skirmish with PAF F-16
29 September 2019 – A Russian made Orlan-10 UAV was downed by a Turkish F-16, after it allegedly had violated the Turkish airspace for six times, near the border town of Kilis
1 March 2020 – Two Syrian Su-24 strike bombers were shot down by Turkish Air Force F-16's using air-to-air missiles over the Syria–Turkey border.
3 March 2020 – A Syrian Air Force L-39 combat trainer was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16 over Idlib province

The majority of aircraft that F-16 shotdown is Mig-23 and Mig-21, both are interceptor and fighter

 

[asianobserve]

95%? that rubbish
During the Soviet–Afghan War, between May 1986 and January 1989, Pakistan Air Force F-16s shot down at least 10 intruders from Afghanistan. Four of the kills were Afghan Su-22s bombers, three were Afghan transports (two An-26s and one An-24), and one was a Soviet Su-25 bomber. Most of these kills were achieved using the AIM-9 Sidewinder
28 April 1981, Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mi-8
14 July 1981, Israel F-16 shot down 1 Syrian Mig-21
21 April 1982, Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mig-23
26 May 1982 Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mig-21
9 June 1982, Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Nazakh was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot recovered
9 June 1982, Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Sofie was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot killed
9 June 1982,Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Yasin was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot killed
all 3 pilots above come from 17 FBR Saygal AB
10 June 1982, 6 Syrian Mig-23BN from 17 FBR Saygal AB, 22 MiG-21bis , 4 Su-22M2 from 34 FBR Nasiriyah AB were shot down over Lebanon by F-15 and F-16, F-15 shot down 7 of them
11 June 1982, Israel F-16 piloted by Eilezer Shkedi shot down 42 Mig-23, 1 SU-22 and 1 Gazelle in one mission,
27 December 1992 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-25 – A MiG-25 crossed the no-fly zone and an F-16D shot it down with an AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. It is the first kill with an AIM-120, and also the first USAF F-16 kill
17 January 1993 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-23 – A USAF F-16C shoots down a MiG-23 when the MiG locks the F-16 up.
28 February 1994, four J-21 and two IJ-21 Jastrebs, and two J-22 Oraos had violated the no-fly-zone to conduct a bombing run on Novi Travnik, The pilots of the two J-22s spotted the F-16s above them and after their attack, they left the area in low-level flight towards Croatia, where the U.S. jets could not follow. Meanwhile, the rest of the group was engaged and attacked. Of the six Yugoslavian jets engaged, four were shot down (one by AMRAAM and the others by Sidewinders)
24 March 1999 – During Operation Allied Force, Dutch F-16AM J-063 flown by Major Peter Tankink shot down one Yugoslavian MiG-29, flown by Lt. Colonel Milutinovic, with an AMRAAM missile. The pilot of the stricken jet ejected safely. This marked the first air-to-air kill made by a Dutch fighter since WW2
4 May 1999 – A lone Yugoslav MiG-29 flown by Lt. Col. Milenko Pavlović attempted to intercept a large NATO formation that was returning to base having just bombed Valjevo (the pilot's home town). It was engaged by a pair of USAF F-16CJs from the 78th Fighter Squadron and shot down with AIM-120
23 March 2014 – A SyAAF MiG-23 was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16, when it allegedly entered Turkish air space during a ground attack mission against Al Qaeda-linked insurgents
16 May 2015 – Two Turkish Air Force F-16s shot down a Syrian Mohajer 4 UAV firing two AIM-9 missiles after it trespassed into Turkish airspace for 5 minute
16 October 2015 – An Orlan-10 Russian made (UAV) was downed by a Turkish F-16, after it had violated the Turkish airspace, near borders with Latakia
24 November 2015 – A Russian Sukhoi Su-24M was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16 near the Syria–Turkey border
27 February 2019 – India confirmed that it lost one MiG-21 in an air skirmish with PAF F-16
29 September 2019 – A Russian made Orlan-10 UAV was downed by a Turkish F-16, after it allegedly had violated the Turkish airspace for six times, near the border town of Kilis
1 March 2020 – Two Syrian Su-24 strike bombers were shot down by Turkish Air Force F-16's using air-to-air missiles over the Syria–Turkey border.
3 March 2020 – A Syrian Air Force L-39 combat trainer was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16 over Idlib province

The majority of aircraft that F-16 shotdown is Mig-23 and Mig-21, both are interceptor and fighter

He has his parallel narrative. He even refuse to believe Assad's own news outlet....

 

[Neptune]

95%? that rubbish
During the Soviet–Afghan War, between May 1986 and January 1989, Pakistan Air Force F-16s shot down at least 10 intruders from Afghanistan. Four of the kills were Afghan Su-22s bombers, three were Afghan transports (two An-26s and one An-24), and one was a Soviet Su-25 bomber. Most of these kills were achieved using the AIM-9 Sidewinder
28 April 1981, Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mi-8
14 July 1981, Israel F-16 shot down 1 Syrian Mig-21
21 April 1982, Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mig-23
26 May 1982 Israel F-16 shot down 2 Syrian Mig-21
9 June 1982, Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Nazakh was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot recovered
9 June 1982, Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Sofie was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot killed
9 June 1982,Syrian MiG-23MF piloted by Yasin was shot down by Israel F-16, pilot killed
all 3 pilots above come from 17 FBR Saygal AB
10 June 1982, 6 Syrian Mig-23BN from 17 FBR Saygal AB, 22 MiG-21bis , 4 Su-22M2 from 34 FBR Nasiriyah AB were shot down over Lebanon by F-15 and F-16, F-15 shot down 7 of them
11 June 1982, Israel F-16 piloted by Eilezer Shkedi shot down 42 Mig-23, 1 SU-22 and 1 Gazelle in one mission,
27 December 1992 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-25 – A MiG-25 crossed the no-fly zone and an F-16D shot it down with an AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. It is the first kill with an AIM-120, and also the first USAF F-16 kill
17 January 1993 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-23 – A USAF F-16C shoots down a MiG-23 when the MiG locks the F-16 up.
28 February 1994, four J-21 and two IJ-21 Jastrebs, and two J-22 Oraos had violated the no-fly-zone to conduct a bombing run on Novi Travnik, The pilots of the two J-22s spotted the F-16s above them and after their attack, they left the area in low-level flight towards Croatia, where the U.S. jets could not follow. Meanwhile, the rest of the group was engaged and attacked. Of the six Yugoslavian jets engaged, four were shot down (one by AMRAAM and the others by Sidewinders)
24 March 1999 – During Operation Allied Force, Dutch F-16AM J-063 flown by Major Peter Tankink shot down one Yugoslavian MiG-29, flown by Lt. Colonel Milutinovic, with an AMRAAM missile. The pilot of the stricken jet ejected safely. This marked the first air-to-air kill made by a Dutch fighter since WW2
4 May 1999 – A lone Yugoslav MiG-29 flown by Lt. Col. Milenko Pavlović attempted to intercept a large NATO formation that was returning to base having just bombed Valjevo (the pilot's home town). It was engaged by a pair of USAF F-16CJs from the 78th Fighter Squadron and shot down with AIM-120
23 March 2014 – A SyAAF MiG-23 was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16, when it allegedly entered Turkish air space during a ground attack mission against Al Qaeda-linked insurgents
16 May 2015 – Two Turkish Air Force F-16s shot down a Syrian Mohajer 4 UAV firing two AIM-9 missiles after it trespassed into Turkish airspace for 5 minute
16 October 2015 – An Orlan-10 Russian made (UAV) was downed by a Turkish F-16, after it had violated the Turkish airspace, near borders with Latakia
24 November 2015 – A Russian Sukhoi Su-24M was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16 near the Syria–Turkey border
27 February 2019 – India confirmed that it lost one MiG-21 in an air skirmish with PAF F-16
29 September 2019 – A Russian made Orlan-10 UAV was downed by a Turkish F-16, after it allegedly had violated the Turkish airspace for six times, near the border town of Kilis
1 March 2020 – Two Syrian Su-24 strike bombers were shot down by Turkish Air Force F-16's using air-to-air missiles over the Syria–Turkey border.
3 March 2020 – A Syrian Air Force L-39 combat trainer was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16 over Idlib province

The majority of aircraft that F-16 shotdown is Mig-23 and Mig-21, both are interceptor and fighter

Not only does your generic copy and paste prove my point but it also contains many fake kills. For instance to this day Pakistanis claim they downed two Mig-23s over Afghanistan one being Bort #55 yet here is that “shot down” Mig-23 after it got “shot down”. Those Soviet pilots have stated Pakistanis are liars too.

Notice how some of those F-16 kills have been debunked with hard irrefutable evidence however obnoxious F-16 fanboys still still continue to spread fake shoot downs.


There is more pictures of Bort #55 with light damage too if you want to see.

As for the Mig-23, many of them were actually used for ground strike roles especially over Afghanistan so you can scream interceptor all you want. Many Soviet and Arab historians have argued for year that some of those kills are simply not true, for years F-16 fanboys laughed yet slowly time have proven the F-16 kills to be fabricated.

 

[Neptune]

He has his parallel narrative. He even refuse to believe Assad's own news outlet....

More like I have evidence, you and your boy peddle propaganda, be it Turkish or Pakistani. You are only good at copying and pasting junk, you however, lack the skills to conduct deep research or cross check references.

People laughed at me when I posted reports about shot down Turkish drones, calling it fake. Now since I posted pictures of those drones the fanboys have had their assholes turn inside out from embarrassment

 

[asianobserve]

More like I have evidence, you and your boy peddle propaganda, be it Turkish or Pakistani. You are only good at copying and pasting junk, you however, lack the skills to conduct deep research or cross check references.

People laughed at me when I posted reports about shot down Turkish drones, calling it fake. Now since I posted pictures of those drones the fanboys have had their assholes turn inside out from embarrassment

Backread my posts. I'd like to see Erdogan humiliated and removed from power. I think he's weakening both his country and NATO and stengthening Putin by his megalomania.

But Syria is not upto the job. I hope Russia directly confront Assad's forces, but even Putin wants to please his soulmate Erdogan.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Not only does your generic copy and paste prove my point but it also contains many fake kills.

It doesn't prove your point in any shape or form, in reverse in fact.
The majority of aircraft that F-16 shoot down are in fact fighter and interceptor, only small amount were trainer and attack aircraft

For instance to this day Pakistanis claim they downed two Mig-23s over Afghanistan one being Bort #55 yet here is that “shot down” Mig-23 after it got “shot down”. Those Soviet pilots have stated Pakistanis are liars too.
Notice how some of those F-16 kills have been debunked with hard irrefutable evidence however obnoxious F-16 fanboys still still continue to spread fake shoot downs.
There is more pictures of Bort #55 with light damage too if you want to see.
View attachment 43973

Firstly, Bort #55 was not in the list I have written.
Secondly, just because in one singular case where a Mig-23 code name Bort #55 was lightly damage by F-16 and managed to fly back to base doesn't mean others kill done by F-16 (owned others airforce) suddenly doesn't happen. To simply claim "oh some of those F-16 kills have been debunked with hard irrefutable evidence" is insufficient and mean absolutely nothing. You have to provide the evidence. How many kills among 79 kills that F-16 achieved that you can provide the so called irrefutable evidence? even if say you can prove 1-2 are fakes there are still 77-78 more to goes, and most of them are fighters and interceptor.

As for the Mig-23, many of them were actually used for ground strike roles especially over Afghanistan so you can scream interceptor all you want. Many Soviet and Arab historians have argued for year that some of those kills are simply not true, for years F-16 fanboys laughed yet slowly time have proven the F-16 kills to be fabricated.

F-16 can be used for ground strike, F-15 can be used for ground strike, Su-27 can be used for ground strike, Su-57 can be used for ground strike if one wish. That doesn't make them ground attack aircraft. Most aircraft are designed with multi role purpose in mind.And most Mig-23 that got shot down in Syria-Israel war is Mig-23MF - the fighter version with main weapon being AA-8 and AA-7.

 

[StealthFlanker]

More like I have evidence, you and your boy peddle propaganda, be it Turkish or Pakistani.

Then why don't you provide evidence to show that the majority of F-16 kills are trainer, drone and attack aircraft and the so called irrefutable evidence that many are fake

 

[Tactical Frog]

It somehow reminds me of WWI and the beginnings of military aviation. The first warplanes were reconnaissance planes with a little offensive charge.Then the pilots slowly experimented with ideas to shoot down the ennemy’s planes. We are getting there soon with drones.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Secondly, the S-200 was designed for targeting high altitude threats such as bombers. So aircraft can simply fly under 5,000 feet and avoid being shot down. That Israeli F-16 that was shot down was shot down because it flew too high and as a result the S-200 did what it was designed to do.

Minimum engagement altitude of S-200 is 300 meter

 

[Tactical Frog]

https://youtu.be/z9HYLe7SI2u

Turkish convey entering Syria. With a pedestal-mounted air defence missile system (PMAD) in the end (1:53)

More on Turkish PMADs at

https://tanknutdave.com/the-turkish-pmads/