Russian involvement in Syrian crisis

Knowitall

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Our planners must look at the Russian intervention in Syria and study it carefully.

Russia has in recent years have displayed their hybrid war capabilities.they have indeed learned a lot after the afghanistan fiasco.

Syria will be a good case study for us if we even decide to send our military into afghanistan.
Russia has throughout kept it's boots on the ground very less while has reformed the Syrian army and gave them new stocks.

They have heavily used their special forces and intelligence capabilities to take down HVT while at the same time doing proper diplomacy. They haven't deployed in the numbers US generally does but still got the job done.

In Ukraine their use of drones combined with artillery and their cyber warfare capabilities bought immediate destruction.

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/...n-artillery-strike-that-spooked-the-u-s-army/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49426724

https://www.unian.info/m/war/109965...-to-the-ground-by-russian-grads-year-ago.html


Overall a lot can be learned from them.
 

Atcjurvin

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But HQ-22 will.

All along I have really found this S-400 confounding. If the IAF does not like US SAM then there are very good Israeli and French analogues. But why buy a Strategic asset that your main enemy possesses and your smaller enemy no doubt have unfettered access to its tech and working...

Now the Turkish experience must be a rude awakening. Well, served that idi0t Erdo right. I hope he is deposed soon.
That's why we are developing our own xrsam which is better than hq22
 

asianobserve

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Our planners must look at the Russian intervention in Syria and study it carefully.

Russia has in recent years have displayed their hybrid war capabilities.they have indeed learned a lot after the afghanistan fiasco.

Syria will be a good case study for us if we even decide to send our military into afghanistan.
Russia has throughout kept it's boots on the ground very less while has reformed the Syrian army and gave them new stocks.

They have heavily used their special forces and intelligence capabilities to take down HVT while at the same time doing proper diplomacy.

In Ukraine their use of drones combined with artillery and their cyber warfare capabilities bought immediate destruction.

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/...n-artillery-strike-that-spooked-the-u-s-army/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49426724

https://www.unian.info/m/war/109965...-to-the-ground-by-russian-grads-year-ago.html


Overall a lot can be learned from them.
I think the lesson is bigger than that. For India it's strategic.

Russia in Syria is the best lesson that if push comes to shove Russia will side with China, much like how it stuck with Assad despite Turkish bromance.
 

asianobserve

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That's why we are developing our own xrsam which is better than hq22
1. XRSAM is only a short range SAM while HQ-22 is long range. XRSAM cannot enforce area denial, it's purely for self-defense of tactical assets; and,

2. XRSAM is still in development while HQ-22 is already fielded.
 

Atcjurvin

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1. XRSAM is only a short range SAM while HQ-22 is long range. XRSAM cannot enforce area denial, it's purely for self-defense of tactical assets; and,

2. XRSAM is still in development while HQ-22 is already fielded.
XRSAM is long range SAM with range of upto 250-350 km for various targets.
 

Atcjurvin

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1. XRSAM is only a short range SAM while HQ-22 is long range. XRSAM cannot enforce area denial, it's purely for self-defense of tactical assets; and,

2. XRSAM is still in development while HQ-22 is already fielded.
Xrsam is similar to Hq 9b..............
 

asianobserve

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XRSAM is long range SAM with range of upto 250-350 km for various targets.

Sorry my bad. I was referring to QMSAM. But nonetheless why spend Billions on S-400 that you cannot use against your 2 strategic foes China and Pakistan? It does not make sense.
 

Waanar

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To be fair Turks are not admitting to firing on Russian aircraft either, even one of their official state news agencies are denying Turks fired MANPADs at Russian aircraft even though there is 3-4 videos clearly showing otherwise. Turks have also bombarded Syrian positions from their “observation posts” and then complained Syria is breaking ceasefires and then has the audacity to demand the Syrian army pull out of Idlib which is obviously sovereign Syrian territory.


The Turks have pretty much annexed Idlib and are threatening Syria to stay away.
Immaterial in the long run. This ain't Golan Heights and Russia ain't FSA.
It'll become nigh hell for the Turkish troops to stay there longer than a month, seeing how their AF is impotent in the region and SAA, Russia AND the jihadis, all want Idlib.
I think the lesson is bigger than that. For India it's strategic.

Russia in Syria is the best lesson that if push comes to shove Russia will side with China, much like how it stuck with Assad despite Turkish bromance.
What, exactly, do you base that conclusion on?
 

Atcjurvin

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Sorry my bad. I was referring to QMSAM. But nonetheless why spend Billions on S-400 that you cannot use against your 2 strategic foes China and Pakistan? It does not make sense.
Deterrence............. mean while it will be fully used against porkis but for chinkis it is just for maintaing balance.
 

JBH22

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Our planners must look at the Russian intervention in Syria and study it carefully.

Russia has in recent years have displayed their hybrid war capabilities.they have indeed learned a lot after the afghanistan fiasco.

Syria will be a good case study for us if we even decide to send our military into afghanistan.
Russia has throughout kept it's boots on the ground very less while has reformed the Syrian army and gave them new stocks.

They have heavily used their special forces and intelligence capabilities to take down HVT while at the same time doing proper diplomacy. They haven't deployed in the numbers US generally does but still got the job done.

In Ukraine their use of drones combined with artillery and their cyber warfare capabilities bought immediate destruction.

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/...n-artillery-strike-that-spooked-the-u-s-army/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49426724

https://www.unian.info/m/war/109965...-to-the-ground-by-russian-grads-year-ago.html


Overall a lot can be learned from them.
You simply cannot match Russian pragmatism and shrewdness. Indian planners seems to be stuck with WW2 warfare style.
If you see Balakot strike the failure to address to information warfare is unpleasant.after Georgia war Russian realised it and now RT is most popular channel on you tube. Imagine how russkie adapt quickly with much smaller budget.
 

asianobserve

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Immaterial in the long run. This ain't Golan Heights and Russia ain't FSA.
It'll become nigh hell for the Turkish troops to stay there longer than a month, seeing how their AF is impotent in the region and SAA, Russia AND the jihadis, all want Idlib.

What, exactly, do you base that conclusion on?

Didn't I mention Syria? It's obvious that between Syria and Turkey Russia places more strstegic weight to the former. Now you see it in Russia's actions in Northern Syria despite promises of dawn of new partnership and cooperation with Turkey and lots of meetings and the S-400 buy.

Now, between China and India, which do you think Russia is placing more strategic weight on based on its recent actions?
 

Aaj ka hero

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One thing I have noticed, and I always find it funny, is Russia blatantly, on your face denies it did it.

Handprints of interference in American elections?- Nah, what handprints you talking bout? Hoofprints? Pawprints? Megyn Kelly's daughter's? :p

Uniformed soldiers in Crimea?- Nah, just uniformed Pro Russia Crimeans.

Russian Ship blockading Ukranian Ship from leaving port?- Nah, they just don't want to leave.

Active duty Russian paratroopers and FSB among guerrillas fighting side by side with guerrillas at Donetsk Airport?- Nah, just private volunteers fighting for their Ukrainian relatives and friends.

You bombed Turkish military convoy- Oh, that was the Syrians. They getting better on bombing runs with their MiGs.

WAIT! YOU JUST BOMBED TURKISH ARMY HQ!?- What Turkish HQ? I don't see none. Who bombed you, breh?
:pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:
Man this is really funny in it's own sense but I hoped the way putin massacred ambitions of Chechnya jihadis in russia modiji could had done the same but no, let's see.
And mind you all MODIJI is our only hope as well as YOGI and SHAH, but look like shah is still in shock over this jihadi riots, but again let's see, I hope he prove me wrong.
 

Assassin 2.0

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Who are you deterring S-400? It's not working for Turkey against Assad.
S-400 is cheapest system when we see how much area it covers.
And we all know how well patriots or thaad are IAF out rightly rejected them. If S-400 couldn't fulfil the requirements in testing periods it would have been rejected too.
You should just tell me how pakistan can spoof S-400 in with logical capabilities?.
 

Waanar

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Man this is really funny in it's own sense but I hoped the way putin massacred ambitions of Chechnya jihadis in russia modiji could had done the same but no, let's see.
And mind you all MODIJI is our only hope as well as YOGI and SHAH, but look like shah is still in shock over this jihadi riots, but again let's see, I hope he prove me wrong.
I see Chechnya as failure. On a societal level, Islam is celebrated openly in Chechnya. It'd have been a victory if they managed to finish off Islam and ended up christiening the land.

Let's save that discussion for a proper thread though.

Chechnya, as of yet, is a barrel of oil waiting to be lit, although, with Russia capturing South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008, it'll be nigh impossible for arabs or Americans to fund the Chechnyans now.
Goddamnit, is there any year this century the Russians weren't engaged in a war? o_O
 

Aaj ka hero

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I see Chechnya as failure. On a societal level, Islam is celebrated openly in Chechnya. It'd have been a victory if they managed to finish off Islam and ended up christiening the land.

Let's save that discussion for a proper thread though.

Chechnya, as of yet, is a barrel of oil waiting to be lit, although, with Russia capturing South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008, it'll be nigh impossible for arabs or Americans to fund the Chechnyans now.
Goddamnit, is there any year this century the Russians weren't engaged in a war? o_O
Well everybody want their land, just like jihadis want ours.
Just look at the condition of Pakistan territory which before partition was proud part of us.
 

asianobserve

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S-400 is cheapest system when we see how much area it covers.
And we all know how well patriots or thaad are IAF out rightly rejected them. If S-400 couldn't fulfil the requirements in testing periods it would have been rejected too.
You should just tell me how pakistan can spoof S-400 in with logical capabilities?.

I don't think S-400 is cheap. But even if it is you're still paying something that's useless against your strategic enemies. The money used in S-400 would have been better employed if invested in thst XRSAM.
 

AbRaj

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33 Turkish soldiers killed in Syrian air raid in Idlib
Russia deploys warships to Syria's coast as Turkey says it 'opens the gates' for refugees who want to cross into Europe.

5 minutes ago

MORE ON BATTLE FOR IDLIB
At least 33 Turkish soldiers were killed in an air strike by Syrian government forces in northwestern Idlib province as Turkey vowed "to respond in kind" with attacks on "all" their positions.

The rapid escalation of the conflict on Friday also threatened another refugee crisis as media reports cited Turkish officials as saying they "opened the gates" for Syrian refugees to transit unimpeded to Europe.

More:
Russia, meanwhile, said Ankara failed to inform it that Turkish troops were fighting alongside rebels in Idlib - comments denied by Turkey.

"Turkish soldiers who were in the battle formations of terrorist groups came under the fire of Syrian troops," the defence ministry said in a statement.

Russian state television reported Turkish military specialists were using shoulder-fired missiles to try to shoot down Russian and Syrian military aircraft over Idlib.

The deaths were the largest number of fatalities suffered by Turkey in a single day since it first intervened in Syria in 2016. In response, Turkey warned it will attack "all known targets of the Syrian regime".

Turkey vows to drive Syrian forces back from Idlib


"The Assad regime represents a threat to our national security, the region and Europe since it began acting like a criminal network terrorising its own citizens," Fahrettin Altun, the head of Turkey's presidential communications department, told Al Jazeera.

"The regime has taken advantage of the international silence in the face of its crimes for years."

Retaliatory strikes
Turkish reprisals killed 16 Syrian soldiers on the battlefield in Idlib on Friday, a UK-based war monitor reported.

Retaliatory drone and artillery strikes hit Syria army positions in southern and eastern parts of the province, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

Al Jazeera could not immediately confirm the reported deaths and there was no response from Damascas.

Fighting took place during a Russia-backed Syrian government offensive to seize the war-torn country's last opposition-held stronghold, which is home to more than three million people.

The ferocious bombing campaign and ground assault have displaced nearly one million people since December, more than half of whom are children. The Syrian offensive has also engulfed many of the 12 military observation posts Turkey has in Idlib.

Rhami Dogan, the governor of Turkey's Hatay province bordering Syria's Idlib region, said 32 wounded troops were being treated in hospitals. Turkey has had 54 soldiers killed in Idlib since the beginning of February.

'Greater escalation'
In a statement, UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres expressed "grave concern" of an escalation of violence and called for an immediate ceasefire. He said "the risk of even greater escalation grows by the hour" without urgent action.

As fighting raged, the United Nations said it was having "catastrophic" humanitarian consequences, with at least 134 civilians, including 44 children, killed in February, and schools and hospitals destroyed.

Seven children were among 11 people killed when an air strike hit a school in northern Idlib on Tuesday, according to the UN.


A Turkey-backed Syrian fighter fires a truck-mounted gun towards the town of Saraqeb on Wednesday [Omar Haj Kadour/AFP]
Through his spokesman, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg issued a statement condemning the "indiscriminate" air strikes by the Syrian regime and Russian forces. He urged de-escalation by all parties of "this dangerous situation".

NATO nations will meet on Friday to address the crisis.

Following the air attack, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan held a two-hour emergency security meeting in Ankara that was attended by ministers and military officials.

Defence Minister Hulusi Akar and Turkish commanders directed operations in Syria at the Turkish border, state-owned Anadolu news agency said.

Syrian state news agency, SANA, carried a brief report saying Turkey acknowledged its forces were killed "in operations of the Syrian Arab Army against a terrorist organization", adding Syrian troops were repelling attacks by "terrorist groups backed by Turkey".

Turkey has sent thousands of troops and heavy military hardware into Syria and Erdogan has warned Turkey would launch a full-scale offensive to repel Syrian forces unless they pulled back from Turkish observation posts in the region.

Vladimir Dzhabarov, a senior Russian lawmaker, said on Friday any full-scale Turkish military operation in Idlib would end badly for Ankara, the Interfax news agency reported.

Erdogan's spokesman, Ibrahim Kalin, who plays a senior role in foreign affairs, spoke about the situation to US National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien.

"We stand by our NATO ally Turkey and continue to call for an immediate end to this despicable offensive by the Assad regime, Russia, and Iranian-backed forces," the US State Department said in a statement.

Syrians fleeing attacks in Idlib find shelter in caves
The Turkish army was retaliating with artillery fire at Syrian government positions in Syria.

"All known" Syrian government targets are under fire by Turkish air and land support units, Turkey's communications director Fahrettin Altun said on Friday, adding it will "respond in kind" to the deadly air strike.

Russia, meanwhile, deployed two warships equipped with Kalibr cruise missiles to the Mediterranean Sea towards the Syrian coast, the Interfax news agency cited Russia's Black Sea Fleet as saying on Friday.

Attacks on Turkish forces have caused severe tensions between the Syrian government's key ally, Russia, and Turkey, which backs certain opposition groups in Idlib.

Erdogan has previously pledged to launch a military operation to push back Syrian government forces if they did not retreat from a line of Turkish observation posts by the end of February.

Syria's war: Doctors take precautions to protect hospitals
Meanwhile, Turkish media quoted officials as saying Turkey's police, coastguard and border security officials had been ordered against trying to stop Syrian refugees from reaching Europe, in anticipation of their imminent arrival from Idlib.

"We have decided, effectively immediately, not to stop Syrian refugees from reaching Europe by land or sea," one official who requested anonymity told Reuters news agency. "All refugees, including Syrians, are now welcome to cross into the European Union."

The threat to open the way for refugees to Europe would, if executed, reverse a pledge Turkey made to the European Union in 2016 and could quickly draw Western powers into the standoff over Idlib and stalled negotiations between Ankara and Moscow.

The burden of hosting refugees "is too heavy for any single country to carry", the official said.

Nearly 300 migrants arrived in Edirne province on the border with Greece in a bid to go to Europe, the private DHA news agency reported.

The group included Syrians, Iranians, Iraqis, Moroccans and Pakistanis, who told the agency they had come to the border after hearing the news about the killing of the Turkish soldiers.

Another group of migrants arrived at the coast of Ayvacik in Canakkale, western Turkey, and wanted to go to Lesbos by boat after reading reports of an "open-door policy", DHA reported.

The agency published images of people carrying their belongings, walking in the dead of night in Edirne and Canakkale.



Some 950,0000 civilians have fled the government offensive this year.

Turkey already hosts more than 3.6 million Syrian refugees and fears a new influx of hundreds of thousands of others, said Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from the Turkish-Syrian border.

"In the coming days, [it is likely] to see Turkey take an aggressive role and ask the European Union and NATO, in particular, to take a very strong stance when it comes to what is happening now in Idlib," he said.

"Turkey feels that it is fighting this fight on its own, while it considers what it is doing as an attempt to put an end to the humanitarian [crisis in Idlib]."

The fast-moving events came as Turkey-backed Syrian opposition fighters retook a strategic northwestern town from government forces on Thursday, opposition activists said, cutting a key highway just days after the government reopened it for the first time since 2012.

Despite losing the town of Saraqeb, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces made major gains to the south. Al-Assad now controls almost the entire southern part of Idlib province after capturing more than 20 villages on Thursday, state media and opposition activists said.
 

Assassin 2.0

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I don't think S-400 is cheap. But even if it is you're still paying something that's useless against your strategic enemies. The money used in S-400 would have been better employed if invested in thst XRSAM.
I'm just asking how it's useless?
As far as i know S-400 is having decent strategic depth it's capable to monitor half of the Pakistani airspace if it's deployed in Punjab region it's having highest range in it's competition of 400km. It's cheaper when you see how much patriot systems will be required to cover the same range which S-400 is covering.
Actually deployment of several different systems gives india a edge it's quite difficult for pakistan to spoof different system from different countries.
MR-SAM is build to fill Mid range gap left by S-400.
 

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