Reflections on Bangladesh

[bose]

I have a different take on this.

• Majority of the population of Bangladesh is secular.
• Bangladesh still has a government that controls the military, unlike Pakistan.
• Stern action is being taken against Islamists.
• Pakistani supporters and collaborators, even to this day, do not have citizenship and live in concentration camps in Bangladesh.

We love to think that the Bangladesh is secular, but what is secular to Indians has different meaning for Bangladeshi Muslims... For a Muslim secular does not mean equality of all religions or separation of religion from politics rather some concessions for non Muslims to live their life...

Somewhere down the line the Bangladeshi military knows that they are not in the league of their Pakistani counterpart... the Bangladeshi military at present is not in a position to dictate civilian government either they understand the difficulty of ruling the country themselves or the military leader is subservient to the political leadership ...

Bangladeshi government is still not been able to stem the violence from militants and some say the Hasina is more interested in finishing her opponents than those militants...

Considering the above points, those that "refused to believe that a Hindu Bengali has culturally and by thinking has moved away form a Muslim Bengali psyche," were not entirely incorrect in their beliefs. Frankly, I don't believe this (moving away culturally and by thinking) is true for majority of Bangladeshis or Indian Bengalis.

Whatever happened during partition is unfortunate, and there was considerable instigation of violence by vested interests.

It is indeed very unfortunate of what happened during partition and it is also true that was instigation of violence by vested interests...

But is also very true that majority of Muslims specially the Bengalis and Urdu speaking wanted separation from Hindus and that was their demand unlike we were taught in our school history books that few Musalmans demanded Pakistan and hence the partition...

My point is Muslims wholeheartedly wanted separation from Hindus [ there are exceptions] and majority of them supported to be so... My reservation is why we always deny the fact and pretend to close our eyes and as if something different reason for partition... yes there are also failure of leadership from Congress side and instigation of violence when the Muslim demands were not met.

Partition might have been an unavoidable demographic reality, but violence was avoidable. That this happened proves that at least part of the political leadership sought to benefit from it.

Violence was done to reach to one's goal for separation from others... there was instigation too supported by majority of Muslims who wanted separations..

 

[pmaitra]

We love to think that the Bangladesh is secular, but what is secular to Indians has different meaning for Bangladeshi Muslims... For a Muslim secular does not mean equality of all religions or separation of religion from politics rather some concessions for non Muslims to live their life...

You started off with secularism of Bangladeshi Muslims. Then you moved on to secularism of Muslims.

I think you are conflating the two.

It is not about what we love to think. It is about whether we are willing to look at the facts. The facts do indicate that a majority of Bangladeshi Muslims are indeed secular.

I don't think a generalized impression about Muslims is objective. Also, I don't think one should look at present day Bangladesh based on Partition Riots. If we see Bangladesh from the tinted glasses of the Partition days, we will always be tempted to generalize.

Let us agree to disagree on this.

Somewhere down the line the Bangladeshi military knows that they are not in the league of their Pakistani counterpart... the Bangladeshi military at present is not in a position to dictate civilian government either they understand the difficulty of ruling the country themselves or the military leader is subservient to the political leadership ...

The Bangladesh Army is very much in line. It is the Bangladesh Rifles, which has been renamed Bangladesh Border Guards, that had a good number of pro-Pakistan elements. Recall there was a spate of violence when the Bangladesh Rifles troops mutinied.

Bangladeshi government is still not been able to stem the violence from militants and some say the Hasina is more interested in finishing her opponents than those militants...

The Bangladeshi government is doing its best. The results are debatable, but the efforts are unquestionable. Hasina's opponents are the pro-Pakistan and Islamist elements. So, whatever her critics say, are what critics always do - criticize.

It is indeed very unfortunate of what happened during partition and it is also true that was instigation of violence by vested interests...

But is also very true that majority of Muslims specially the Bengalis and Urdu speaking wanted separation from Hindus and that was their demand unlike we were taught in our school history books that few Musalmans demanded Pakistan and hence the partition...

My point is Muslims wholeheartedly wanted separation from Hindus [ there are exceptions] and majority of them supported to be so... My reservation is why we always deny the fact and pretend to close our eyes and as if something different reason for partition... yes there are also failure of leadership from Congress side and instigation of violence when the Muslim demands were not met.





Violence was done to reach to one's goal for separation from others... there was instigation too supported by majority of Muslims who wanted separations..

Agreed.

 

[bose]

You started off with secularism of Bangladeshi Muslims. Then you moved on to secularism of Muslims.

There are no contradiction as it was in the context of Bangladesh...

I think you are conflating the two.

It is not about what we love to think. It is about whether we are willing to look at the facts. The facts do indicate that a majority of Bangladeshi Muslims are indeed secular.

I don't think a generalized impression about Muslims is objective. Also, I don't think one should look at present day Bangladesh based on Partition Riots. If we see Bangladesh from the tinted glasses of the Partition days, we will always be tempted to generalize.

Let us agree to disagree on this.

fine with me...

The Bangladesh Army is very much in line. It is the Bangladesh Rifles, which has been renamed Bangladesh Border Guards, that had a good number of pro-Pakistan elements. Recall there was a spate of violence when the Bangladesh Rifles troops mutinied.

The Bangladeshi government is doing its best. The results are debatable, but the efforts are unquestionable. Hasina's opponents are the pro-Pakistan and Islamist elements. So, whatever her critics say, are what critics always do - criticize.


Agreed.

 

[AnantS]

I believe the Punjabis are more practical and had feet on ground while the Bengalis are more illusionary by nature...

Punjabis quickly understood that Hindus / Sikhs are not compatible with Muslim Punjabis and rightly did what should have been done then to free all of East Punjab of Muslims [ except Malerkotla for reason we know]... I am happy for Indian Punjab as they showed the correct way to deal with the Muslims then... I still remember as one of my father's friend a Sikh from West Punjab even in 70's refuse to take Mutton / Goat slaughtered by Muslims ... He will travel far to get mutton / goat slaughtered in Jhatka or Hindu style...

Hindu Bengalis then still could not overcome the Bengal partition and refused to believe that a Hindu Bengali has culturally and by thinking has moved away form a Muslim Bengali psyche... Romanticism of a illusionary united Bengal did them in... Bengalis suffered more displacement and killings during partition ...

We have a lot of Punjabis suffering from WKK syndrome not dissimilar from Bengal. If Communists in Bengal have soft corner for BD & Muslims. So do Khali folks in Punjab and left leaning intellectuals in Punjab. And above all, all three hate "awakened Hindus" more than anything else on earth. The scale of terror on Hindus on Western side was much larger , given the size of Pakistan.

Eastern Punjab was home for persecuted Hindus from all over West Punjab, NWFP, Baloch, Upper Sindh. The sheer numbers of angered Hindu/Sikhs overwhelmed any pacifist ideas on this side.

 

[AnantS]

There was no scope of US intervention once the Soviet Union got involved.

Soviets gave a tight deadline and strict dos and dont's to Indira. They were not keen in prolonging conflict and hence increasing chances of possible WW 3. This is also the reason, Indira did not pursue PoK

 

[rockey 71]

We love to think that the Bangladesh is secular, but what is secular to Indians has different meaning for Bangladeshi Muslims... For a Muslim secular does not mean equality of all religions or separation of religion from politics rather some concessions for non Muslims to live their life...

Somewhere down the line the Bangladeshi military knows that they are not in the league of their Pakistani counterpart... the Bangladeshi military at present is not in a position to dictate civilian government either they understand the difficulty of ruling the country themselves or the military leader is subservient to the political leadership ...

Bangladeshi government is still not been able to stem the violence from militants and some say the Hasina is more interested in finishing her opponents than those militants...






It is indeed very unfortunate of what happened during partition and it is also true that was instigation of violence by vested interests...

But is also very true that majority of Muslims specially the Bengalis and Urdu speaking wanted separation from Hindus and that was their demand unlike we were taught in our school history books that few Musalmans demanded Pakistan and hence the partition...

My point is Muslims wholeheartedly wanted separation from Hindus [ there are exceptions] and majority of them supported to be so... My reservation is why we always deny the fact and pretend to close our eyes and as if something different reason for partition... yes there are also failure of leadership from Congress side and instigation of violence when the Muslim demands were not met.





Violence was done to reach to one's goal for separation from others... there was instigation too supported by majority of Muslims who wanted separations..

Bengalis, whether of India or BD, are a tolerant and culturally accomodative people.Let us not use the term "secular" which is a political concept conveniently used by politicians to promote their point.

 

[bose]

Bengalis, whether of India or BD, are a tolerant and culturally accomodative people.Let us not use the term "secular" which is a political concept conveniently used by politicians to promote their point.

exactly my point, I was arguing that let us not give certificates of who is or not a secular...

secular is much maligned term...

 

[Bornubus]

Bengalis, whether of India or BD, are a tolerant and culturally accomodative people.Let us not use the term "secular" which is a political concept conveniently used by politicians to promote their point.

Really ! So what the fuck was that on Paki Forum where your dirty mouth brazenly supporting ISIS.

@asad 71 was justifying BD ISIS attack as a hate for "secular" BAL govt and comparatively liberal BD society, and openly supporting insurgency in India Bengal, Assam and Arakan (Myanmar)

I bet you are so shameless that you still call those turds as terrorists.

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad
@Kunal Biswas
@pmaitra

Mods kindly keep an eye on potential IS sympathizer.

 

[hardip]

bangladesh attck behind ISI: report / officel of bAN..

WHO is surprise after this statement.... HA HA.... Even chines,turkeys.. also believe..in this

 

[maomao]

I would like to add that before East Bengalis came to WB the Ghotis here were getting massacred. It was only after East Bengali refugees came here that the Hindus of Bengal could stop the Muslims from killing them and preventing rape of their women.

If East Bengalis like our family had not migrated, entire WB would have been under Pakistan. Infact even now in districts like Nadia there is a huge influx of Muslims and hardly any Hindus can be found near the place.

In fact we have Metiabruz,Khidderpore et al. This only shows how the previous/current WB govt allows Muslim gundas and hooligans to grow.

And sir you vote for Commies and DIDIs!

 

[maomao]

In all the debates of so called great Calcutta Killings and what not, I don't hear the name of a hero who saved bengali Hindus from getting killed or converted! The Lion of Bengal is not even mentioned by shameless Bhadralok of bengal....too much of marxist BS has demented the brains of many Bengalis who shy away to name him, rather call him 'killer of bengal' or 'butcher of bengal'? One person who is responsible for protecting bengalis bhadraloks when they were running away from the fight and leaving their women behind to be raped by muslims hordes call him a butcher of bengal? Shame on these Pseudo intellectual shameless bengali scums, bloody self-haters who wants whole of India to become like them in the name of being secular liberal!

BTW for fellow bengalis the name of this Man was Gopal 'Patha' Mukhopadhyaya!! Learn his name by heart, read about him get some inspiration and give your children lessons about him. Mark my words you will need many more Gopal Pathas in coming days or you will be refugees like kashmiris in your own country!

 

[pmaitra]

Really ! So what the fuck was that on Paki Forum where your dirty mouth brazenly supporting ISIS.

@asad 71 was justifying BD ISIS attack as a hate for "secular" BAL govt and comparatively liberal BD society, and openly supporting insurgency in India Bengal, Assam and Arakan (Myanmar)

I bet you are so shameless that you still call those turds as terrorists.

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad
@Kunal Biswas
@pmaitra

Mods kindly keep an eye on potential IS sympathizer.

I don't go to other fora and we don't encourage discussing other fora here. I am tagging @Yusuf and @Singh to look into this and take appropriate action. Please don't bring in feuds from other fora into DFI.