Rajputs in medieval age - battles and discussions

[punjab47]

What about Jodha? Rajasthani Rajputs enjoyed pimping their women to Mughals.

&what are you some lankan refugee in Scarborough? Remember when we burnt your little island.

 

[asingh10]

Babur in his memoirs (Baburnama) says Raja of Vijayanagar was the most powerful Hindu ruler & Rana Sanga of Mewar was second.

 

[flamboyant]

That reminded me, the Mewar state emblem still shows Maharana Pratap & a Bhil tribesman to emphasize Rana's association with Bhil tribals.

As part of Rajput coronation ceremonies, it was the Bhil chieftain who would apply a Tilak on the new Rajput leader's head using his thumb's blood. I've said it time and again on this forum, Left-secular history completely booted out Dalits & tribals because they resisted Islamic and British invasions. It's actually a very subtle way of destroying their self esteem, much like how British branded some of them as "criminal tribes".

Rajput itself is a big conglomeration of Bhils,Santhals,Gonds , wide array of Dalits and other tribes who were living on fringes.
Process of becoming a Rajput was very simple.The complaisant rajput bards would promptly invent a Râjpût genealogy for the prospective candidate.

Mentioned below are excerpts from fantastic research papers on Medieval India.(Conquest and Resistance in Context:A Historiographical Reading of Sanskrit and Persian Battle Narratives - by Michael Boris Bednar,Univ of Texas ,Austin)

The status titles of ṭhakkura,rāuta, andrājaputra,therefore, were not synonymous with a Rajput social identity, since the Rajput identity applied to all members of society from kings and lords down to craftsmen and cobblers.(this is explained in detail)

Scholars generally link the Rajput identity to the kṣatriya warrior of classical Indic society. The Rajput identity, according to these scholars, trickled down from the social elite to the lower classes and to those living on the fringe of civilization.

This identity that emerged in the fifteenth century, developed in the sixteenth and subsequent centuries into the modern Rajput social identity.

The Rajputs developed a social identity that increasingly is replaced the ideological place of varṇa. Rajputs viewed themselves as warriors, but they did not necessarily come from the kṣatriya (warrior) varṇa nor did they necessarily engage in kṣatriya activities.The Rajput identity incorporated a warrior ethos even when Rajputs engaged in activities far removed from the kṣatriya’s traditional role in the Hindu social order. Rajput status was the product of social mobility or the means to attain a better social status.Many claims made by the Rajput ruling families may be seen as attempts to get away from the actual origin rather than to reveal it.Socially mobile families and clans employed a Rajput identity to mask less desirable aspects of their ancestry or to promote their status within society. Linking a family or a clan to a legendary warrior or a heroic companion simultaneously legitimated the family/clan and obscured the family/clan’s past.

The British distributed a series of handbooks to their recruitment officers so that they could distinguish the so-called High Rajputs from the Low Rajputs and, more importantly, those who were impersonating a Rajput lineage to enter the Indian Army.
Captain A.H. Bingley, Handbook on Rajputs (1899; reprint, New Delhi: Asian Educational Services, 1986).

For further reading
A discussion of the Rajput warrior identity from the end of the fifteenth century though the eighteenth century may be found in Dirk H. A. Kolff, Naukar, Rajput & Sepoy: The Ethnohistory of the Military Labour Market in Hindustan, 1450–1850 (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1990).

 

[Virendra]

Firstly, Rajput genealogies aren't kept just by bards, but also supplied by contemporary historians in their works and inscriptions etc.
If we refuse to believe primary sources of history, as fabrications, then it is a slippery road all the way.
If fabrications were that easy, a man like Shivaji would have cake walk in proving Rajput credentials. To the contrary his Rajput ancestry is a debated topic till date.

Secondly, Bhils, Dalits etc aren't Rajputs. There have been claims and attempts time to time, to appropriate such identity for various socio-political reasons.
Whatever is the cool thing to do. On the other side Pakistani communities tried to claim Arab ancestry. Because in their world now, that is the cool place to be. Same communities earlier used to claim Rajput identity till 19th century as then that was the cool thing to do.

Third, the Rajput identity didn't emerge in 15th century. It rather did much earlier in 7th-8th century A.D.

As far as Rajput history is concerned, Col. James Tod was the best that Colonials could come up with.
His work though monumental and useful in getting basic gist of Rajput history; is full of mistakes and not recommended for serious scholarship.

 

[Panjab47]

Lol that's why our gotras trace back earlier basically as earlier poster said all you want to do is ignore all sources except melech ones that push your narrative.

How does a Bhil or Gond claim Rajput & then marry into a Rajput family? Even an attempt at this invites murder Today.

Keep fantasizing about this happening in the past furthermore, not everyone has abrahamic self hatred & inferiority complex that they would want to claim something else.

Even adivasis & chandals worship their ancestors.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Firstly, Rajput genealogies aren't kept just by bards, but also supplied by contemporary historians in their works and inscriptions etc.
If we refuse to believe primary sources of history, as fabrications, then it is a slippery road all the way.
If fabrications were that easy, a man like Shivaji would have cake walk in proving Rajput credentials. To the contrary his Rajput ancestry is a debated topic till date.

Secondly, Bhils, Dalits etc aren't Rajputs. There have been claims and attempts time to time, to appropriate such identity for various socio-political reasons.
Whatever is the cool thing to do. On the other side Pakistani communities tried to claim Arab ancestry. Because in their world now, that is the cool place to be. Same communities earlier used to claim Rajput identity till 19th century as then that was the cool thing to do.

Third, the Rajput identity didn't emerge in 15th century. It rather did much earlier in 7th-8th century A.D.

As far as Rajput history is concerned, Col. James Tod was the best that Colonials could come up with.
His work though monumental and useful in getting basic gist of Rajput history; is full of mistakes and not recommended for serious scholarship.

In 17th century at the time of Shivaji it was definitely difficult. But may be not so in 8-9th century.

 

[asingh10]

Yesterday was the birthday of Swami Shraddhanand who conducted the original Ghar Wapisi. Shraddhananda began his reconversion drive with the Malkana Rajputs located primarily in Mathura-Agra region. As the Shuddi movement gained momentum and close to 1,63,000 Malkana Rajputs reconverted to Hinduism, the Muslims went against Shraddhananda and assassinated him.

 

[dhananjay1]

varṇa-jātī system was never based on rigid exclusive principles that it is made out to be by anglo social scientists. There was a lot of influx from all the three varṇa-s into kshatriya clans. There are countless examples of brahman-vaishya-shudra establishing ruling dynasties and later coming to be counted as kshatriya-s.

 

[Panjab47]

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad you're blinded by ideology. This is another part of ait. Rajputs part of 36 rajkul which non Ikshvaaku lineage is?

& they may be counted as ksytria but not BharatVanshis which is what it's really about. Keep believing what you want,

Fact is pind doesn’t care for your 'intellectualism' lol. @dhananjay1

 

[dhananjay1]

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad you're blinded by ideology. This is another part of ait. Rajputs part of 36 rajkul which non Ikshvaaku lineage is?

& they may be counted as ksytria but not BharatVanshis which is what it's really about. Keep believing what you want,

Fact is pind doesn’t care for your 'intellectualism' lol. @dhananjay1

I really don't know what you mean, elaborate.

 

[flamboyant]

Firstly, Rajput genealogies aren't kept just by bards, but also supplied by contemporary historians in their works and inscriptions etc.
If we refuse to believe primary sources of history, as fabrications, then it is a slippery road all the way.
If fabrications were that easy, a man like Shivaji would have cake walk in proving Rajput credentials. To the contrary his Rajput ancestry is a debated topic till date.

Secondly, Bhils, Dalits etc aren't Rajputs. There have been claims and attempts time to time, to appropriate such identity for various socio-political reasons.
Whatever is the cool thing to do. On the other side Pakistani communities tried to claim Arab ancestry. Because in their world now, that is the cool place to be. Same communities earlier used to claim Rajput identity till 19th century as then that was the cool thing to do.

Third, the Rajput identity didn't emerge in 15th century. It rather did much earlier in 7th-8th century A.D.

As far as Rajput history is concerned, Col. James Tod was the best that Colonials could come up with.
His work though monumental and useful in getting basic gist of Rajput history; is full of mistakes and not recommended for serious scholarship.

If only you could support your views with some authentic documents/research would be great.
There are whole lot of gazetteers lying in the libraries and govt departments which if you read will pop your eyes out in absolute astonishment.
Col Tod was assigned to write a favorable Rajput history because It was the Rajputs who first came forward to help them in getting a foothold in India.Mind you,Tod failed miserably to portray Rajputs in glory as was desired of him.For how long could he go on jotting sheer white lies when all the authentic documents in front of him,telling a story diametrically opposite to what he actually wanted to portray.

It was only when the British established themselves firmly in India that the English historians and writers started to open the can of worms i.e Rajput 'real' history.
It was only after they had regimentalized Sikhs and Gurkhas well and proper did they start to despise Rajputs.

(The best troops now are the Sikhs, Gôrkhâs, and frontier Muhammadans. Oudh men(Rajputs) still enlist in large numbers, but do not enjoy their old prestige -Rambles and Recollections of an Indian Official Author: William Sleeman)

But Rajputs as they were,did not get deterred with this indifference/contempt and persisted with same old time tested tactics of appeasement and buttressing and thus continued getting undeserving favours.

I recollect reading a diary of a British officer(of colonial times) where he says," These Rajputs talk a lot about aan,baan,shaan and all those lofty ideals but in reality this is only in theory,their real life is sheer stranger to these pompous principles". or words to that effect.

You mean to say only Tod was right and hundreds of British/Indian/other writer and officers who were maintaining a daily diary of events happening in those times were all wrong.

Yes,had it been the medieval times,Pakistanis could have easily become Arabs.These are modern times,no scope of falsifying things.These are times to live in reality and not on red herrings/folklores/pomp.

In case of Shivaji,this custom (of connecting to a 'glorious' genealogy) took the hit because the marathas themselves had become a force to reckon with.Yes,a force/clan far superior than rajputs themselves.
Now they didnt need any fake genealogical support to prove themselves.
Shivaji is worshipped as the superstar of Maratha glory.Who would like to connect himself to some dubious Rajput genealogy.Hence the clash.Mind you it is the Rajputs who have started to malign Shivaji.
It is a case where somebody became many times more big than the size he was actually claiming for.

But this does point to something very obvious.
Shivaji was a ruler of a region which was placed quite far off from the place he was trying to establish his genealogy.
If a person of maratha origin from deccan is promptly provided with the Rajput genealogy certificate then you can very well imagine how easy it was for the people inhabiting regions of present day Rajasthan,UP,MP,Bihar & Gujarat to get this 'coveted' degree (status symbol).Those tribal heads/clan sardars/men risen through ranks etc

Lastly I leave you with an excerpt from Rambles and Recollections of an Indian Official Author: William Sleeman.It points at three things
Bardic history acoounts based on untruth
How Rajput genealogy was invented for new applicants.
Strong and inherent tribal connection of Rajputs
This is just a small sample as to how Rajputs actually evolved

"The marriage of Durgâvatî is no proof that her father, the Chandêl Râjâ, was powerful in Mahoba in the time of Akbar. It is rather an indication that he was poor and weak. If he had been rich and strong, he would probably have refused his daughter to a Gond,even though complaisant bards might invent a Râjpût genealogy for the bridegroom. The story about the army of fifty thousand men cannot be readily accepted as sober fact. It looks like a courtly invention to explain a mésalliance. The inducement really offered to the proud but poor Chandêl was, in all likelihood, a large sum of money, according to the usual practice in such cases. Several indications exist of close relations between the Gonds and Chandêls in earlier times".

 

[Bornubus]

Yesterday was the birthday of Swami Shraddhanand who conducted the original Ghar Wapisi. Shraddhananda began his reconversion drive with the Malkana Rajputs located primarily in Mathura-Agra region. As the Shuddi movement gained momentum and close to 1,63,000 Malkana Rajputs reconverted to Hinduism, the Muslims went against Shraddhananda and assassinated him.

Fatehpur Sikri (derived from Sikarwar villages) was itself a Bastion of Sikarwar Rajputs,some of them joined Babar and were granted khan title and Jagir and in East UP/Bihar after conversion.

Their ancestors were known as KhanZadas in Mughal Nobility.Even today the entire region around fatehpur Sikri is dominated by Hindu Rajputs and Jats.

 

[Bornubus]

Yesterday was the birthday of Swami Shraddhanand who conducted the original Ghar Wapisi. Shraddhananda began his reconversion drive with the Malkana Rajputs located primarily in Mathura-Agra region. As the Shuddi movement gained momentum and close to 1,63,000 Malkana Rajputs reconverted to Hinduism, the Muslims went against Shraddhananda and assassinated him.

Remind me of another murder of an Arya Samji and a great communal dispute over a book "Rangila Rasool"

The writer was also a Arya samaji and was killed by a Musalman.

 

[asingh10]

Remind me of another murder of an Arya Samji and a great communal dispute over a book "Rangila Rasool"

The writer was also a Arya samaji and was killed by a Musalman.

Yeah and Ahmadiyas being British loyalists did their bit to pacify Punjab. Brit elite conceded to the demand of Muslims to impose blasphemy laws.

 

[Panjab47]

@dhananjay1 village knows its history, your narrative just switches women freely mix to 'its part of jaati'

@flamboyant royals did many things, britshits also thought jaat & Jatt are same. Guess there's reason Rajputs in thread are ignoring you.

 

[asingh10]

Hasan Khan Mewati was a Khanzada that fought on the side of Rana Sanga against Babur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Khan_Mewati

These Mewatis, were neither Hindu, nor purely Muslim, followed many Hindu traditions but were Islamized completely by Brits who boxed them in the Muslim category. There were many borderline Hindu communities like this across the subcontinent but were written as Muslims to give Muslims majority in 1881 census. Harjot Oberoi has written in his book 'The Construction of Religious Boundaries: Culture, Identity, and Diversity ' about this ossification of many ethnic groups that happened during British raj.

Harjit Oberoi on blurred lines between Sikhs and Hindus of Punjab.

 

[asingh10]

In 1597, on January 19, died mahArANA pratApa siMha, the foremost luminary in the galaxy of all Hindu leaders that raised the standard of tumult to answer the jehAd. But before he died he fulfilled the mission of his life of regaining control over his mAtR^ibhUmi, and even at his deathbed he made his heir and his band of men swear by Lord Ekalinga to continue fighting the battle for Hindu independence.

Never did that dharmAbhimAnI compromise on Hindu liberty and never did he submit even to the lucrative offers of moghal tyrant. His insignia read “जो दृढ राखै धरम कौ ताहि रखै कर्तार”: Those Who Stiffly Protect Dhrama find Protection of The Creator. It is by his grit and that of his followers that the sapling of Hindu revival was kept nourished, which would in next century become the mighty vaTa. Thus while negotiating treaty at Purandar with Jai Singh, cHatrapati recalled mahArANA and his hardships.

But for that vIra-pu~Ngava, all was lost beyond hope, as says surAyajI, a contemporary rAjasthAnI poet:

हिन्दू हिन्दूकार, राणा जे राखत नहीं
तो अकबर एकार, पहो सहो करत परतापसी
हिन्दूपति परताप, पत राखी हिन्दवाणरी
सहे विपति संताप, सत्य सपथ कर आपणी

[Had rANA not kept the Hindu flag independent,
Akbar had all but succeeded in crushing them to joining/becoming Moslems
But O Hindupati Pratap, You kept the Hindu pride undiminished
Even bearing hardships and pains, never did you waver from your grit]

Even a rAjpUt courtier of Akbar, ADhA dUrasA of sirohI, wrote in his “viruddha cHihattarI”:

एही भुजे अरीति । तसलीमत हिन्दू तुरक
माथै निकर मसीत परताप कै परसादसी
रोहै पाताल राण । जाँ तसलीम न आदरै
हिन्दू मुस्सलमाण एक नहीं ता दोय हैं

[When such is the usage of the day that Hindus have to bow low and perform Tasleem to Musalmans,
It is only in your country, O Pratap, that the temples are seen reconstructed where mosques were squatting
Only if, O Pratap, you hold the Hindu Banner high and don’t acknowledge (Akbar’s) suzerainty
Hindus will retain their independence and identity and not get merged with Musalmans]

रोकै अकबर राह । लै हिन्दू कूकुर लखां
बीअर तो बाराह पाडै घणा परताप सी
सुख हित स्याल समाज, हिन्दू अकबर बस हुए
रोसीलो मृगराज पजै न राण परताप सी

[Akbar obstacles the path of pratApa with help from a lakh Dog-Hindus (those who have gone to Akbars side)
But when did they stop the Boar-like march of pratApa! A single vArAha-Hindu is enough.
For sake of comfort some coward jackal-Hindus have taken Akbar as overlord
But when did Lion-Hindus like pratApa ever accept his suzerainty!]

लोपै हिन्दू लाज सगपण रोपै तुरकसूँ
आरज कुल री आज पूंजी राण प्रतापसी

[When Hindu honour has disappeared; they shamelessly give their daughters to musalmans;
O Pratap rANA, today You are the only refuge left for the Aryakula honour]

pratApa siMha, the standard forever of Hindu bravery, had no hesitation to denounce the cowardly deeds of his father and used to openly lament that had udaya not been born between his grandfather Sangram Singh the ‘Hindupat’, and himself, the Moslem rule in hindusthAn would have been wiped out in the time of bAbur himself. (This is not a mere boast)

सांगो धरम सहाय बाबुर सूं भिडियो बिहस
अकबर कदमा आय पडै न राण प्रताप सी
मन अकबर मजबूत! फूट हिन्दवाँ बेफिकर
काफिर कौम कपूत! पकडूँ राण प्रताप सी

[If for the protection of dharma had rANA sAMgA gone to clash with bAbUr
It is for the same reason that pratApa does not give in to Akbar
Akbar’s mind is carefree and strong seeing the prevailing disunity among the Hindus
But even he knows that amongst Kafirs these are the black sheep; So he goes after Pratap]

Once a rumour was spread in Agra that mahArANA was willing to accept Akbar’s overlordship and had sent such communication to Patsah. Alarmed about this, a rAjpUt prince of bIkAner, Rai Prithviraj who was at Akbar’s court, wrote to pratApa seeking the truth of the matter. He wrote:

पातल जो पातसाह बोलै मुख हूता बयण
मिहर पच्छम दिस माह उगै कासप राववत
पटकूँ मुच्छाँ पाण कै पटकूँ निज तन करद
लीजै लिख दीवान इण दो महली बात इक

[I have been told that pratApa has started calling Akbar his Patsah,
which to me seems as impossible as the Sun rising from the west
But tell me O Regent (of EkaliMga) where I stand –
Shall I proudly put my fingers on my moustaches or sword on my neck?
Just write back which of the two is for me?]

To which pratApa siMha wrote back the below lines which are proudly memorised by every true Rajput:

तुरक कहासी मुख पतो इण तन सौं इकलिंग
ऊगै जाहीं ऊगसी प्राची बीच पतङ
खुसी हूँत पीतल कमध पटको मूच्छा पाण
पछटन है जेतै पटौ कलमा सिर केवाण
सांगा मूड सहै सको समजस जहर सवाद
झड पीतल जीतो झलाँ वैण तरकसूँ वाद

[By Lord Ekalinga, I shall call Akbar Turak alone (and not Patsah),
as surely as the Sun would rise tomorrow from the East.
You may, O Prithviraj, continue proudly stroking your moustaches
As pratApa’s sword continues to dangle on the Mughal heads, and,
Let the Sanga’s blood be on my hands if I ever rest before crushing them
You would, Prithvi, no doubt, have the better of this quarrel of rumours at the court.]

When the news of pratApa’s death reached Akbars court, it is said that Akbar mourned for his death (so say also the persian sources). At this, a rAjasthAnI poet at Akbar’s court expressed his homage to pratApa like this:

अस लैगो अनदाग पाघ लैगो अणनामी
गौ आडा अवडाय जिको बहतो धुर बामी
नवरोजे नह गयो न गो आतसाँ नवल्ली
न गओ झरोखा हेठ दुनियाण दहल्ली
गहलोता राणा जीती गयो दसन मून्द रसना डसी
निसास मूक भरिया नयन मृतु शाह प्रतापसी !

[Kept his horses unbranded (of mughal seal), Head unbowed and fame untarnished
Carried on his fight against vidharmI yoke merely by his singular fortitude
Never went to Navroz and Atish festivals of Patsah nor mounted guard at his jharokha darshan
O rANA the guhilota! The victory be yours. Even in death you make Patsah speechless and blind
Breathless, Patsah’s tongue is stuck in throat and blinded, as his eyes are moistened from sadness]

http://bharatendu.com/2011/01/20/maharanas-punya-divasa/

 

[asingh10]

Another contemporary bard on Maharana Pratap's death

 

[Screambowl]

oh so my posts where deleted

which said about how Ramsingh a Rajput from Rajasthan fought along with mughals and Lost against The Ahoms badly...


very good keep deleting the posts!!

 

[dhananjay1]

Pratap is a semi-divine figure, a fierce spirit inducing dread among Mogals that ruled almost entire north India. A people who don't respect an ancestor like him are not worthy of survival.