Pakistan's Ideology and Identity crisis

[Sikh_warrior]

Land of Pure!

 

[SpArK]

 

[mayfair]

A must watch video for those who understand and/or wish to understand Pakistaniyat

The video deserves to be a sticky

 

[vijaytripoli]

A must watch video for those who understand and/or wish to understand Pakistaniyat

The video deserves to be a sticky

Its a repost . I already posted it another forum.
Chau

 

[mayfair]

Its a repost . I already posted it another forum.
Chau

You posted it on BRF? That's where I got this link.

 

[vijaytripoli]

No in DFI only.

Is Pakistan heading for disaster in Balochistan?
http://defenceforumindia.com/baloch...52-pakistan-heading-disaster-balochistan.html
Chau

 

[hit&run]

 

[Bangalorean]

Here is an excellent video about Pakistan's ummah delusions:

 

[Bangalorean]

Another excellent video about Pakistan's Kashmir delusions.


Some people may not like the way the Pakistani journalist praised Nehru. But I always say one thing - much as I hate Nehru's economic policies, I give him credit for establishing a firm foundation for democracy in India. He needs to get the credit for that.

 

[KS]

Some people may not like the way the Pakistani journalist praised Nehru. But I always say one thing - much as I hate Nehru's economic policies, I give him credit for establishing a firm foundation for democracy in India. He needs to get the credit for that.

Kashmir problem exists only because of "Pandit" Nehru

 

[Bangalorean]

Kashmir problem exists only because of "Pandit" Nehru

Yes, and many other issues too. Most major issue being economic problem.

All the same, you need to give him credit for building the foundations of India's democracy. You cannot deny that he could have established a brutal dictatorship if he wanted to. Give him credit where due.

 

[Bangalorean]

Here is the Paki passport application. This tells a lot:

http://www.pakmission.ca/Forms/Manual Passport Application.pdf

...

7. Religion
â–¡ Muslims â–¡ Christian â–¡ Parsi â–¡ Hindu â–¡ Sikh
â–¡ Budhist â–¡ Qadiani â–¡ Other ( Pl Specify)________

...

DECLARATION (FOR ALL APPLICANTS)
I declare on solemn affirmation as under:
1. To the best of my knowledge and belief the information given in this application is correct.
2. I have not previously held or applied for a passport of any description or been refused passport facilities
3. All previously passports granted to me have been surrendered other than the passport or travel document noted in Column 15, which is
attached, I have made no other no other applications for a passport since the attached passport or travel document was issued to me.
Note : If applicant had a passport which had a passport which has been lost, he/ she should furnish particulars in columns 16, in
the
event of its coming again into possession, the applicant undertakes to return it to the Regional Passport Office Consulate
General of Pakistan, Toronto.
4. I have never been repatriated at government expenses.
5. I am/am not a government servant, an employee of semi government. A municipality, any other local body or a state owned industry.
6. I have/ have not served in Armed Forces
7. I am /am not a reservist in the Armed Forces
8. I am/am not a subject of Jammu & Kashmir, if yes, place and period ___________________________________________________
of continuous residence in Pakistan / Azad Kashmir of the Applicant /Father.
__________________________
Signature


DECLARATION (FOR MUSLIMS ONLY)
I ________________________________ S/O D/O W/O_________________________________ d.o.b ___________________, adult
Muslim, Resident of _________________________________________________________ herby solemnly declare that:
I am a Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) the last of the prophets. I
do not recognize any person who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or of any description what so ever after Muhammad
(peace be upon him) or recognize such a claimant as prophet or religious reformer as a Muslim. I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani to
be an imposter nabi and also consider his followers, whether belonging to the Lahori or Qadiani group to be non Muslims.
Date _____________ ___________________________
Signature
Requirements

...

 

[Bangalorean]

^^ The stuff written in this Paki passport application clearly shows many things about that country.

What the devil is the need to write all the bullshit about "Qadiani" (Ahmadiyya) Muslims at the bottom of the application, and making everyone sign a declaration to that effect? This is a passport form, for God's sake!

What idiocy!

 

[KS]

Yes, and many other issues too. Most major issue being economic problem.

All the same, you need to give him credit for building the foundations of India's democracy. You cannot deny that he could have established a brutal dictatorship if he wanted to. Give him credit where due.

He was incapable of that too even if he wanted.He was basically a confused man, neck deep in ideals and they are not the qualities of a dictator.

I still cant understand why Gandhiji preferred Nehru over the Sardar and why death struck Sardar in an untimely manner.

 

[parijataka]

Another excellent video about Pakistan's Kashmir delusions.


Some people may not like the way the Pakistani journalist praised Nehru. But I always say one thing - much as I hate Nehru's economic policies, I give him credit for establishing a firm foundation for democracy in India. He needs to get the credit for that.

Bangalorean, in the years immediately after 1947 Congress and other parties had giants of the stature of Sardar Patel, Lal Bahadur Shastri, Babasaheb Ambedkar, Maulana Azad, etc and many more who enriched democracy in India. Nehru is given too much importance imho. If a decisive leader like Sardar Patel had not been around India would have looked much different, smaller. In another thread, there is an article on how a contingent of IA took Arunachal and Nehru chided them afterwards. Nehru must be blamed for many more things it seems apart from Kashmir.

 

[mayfair]

^^ The stuff written in this Paki passport application clearly shows many things about that country.

What the devil is the need to write all the bullshit about "Qadiani" (Ahmadiyya) Muslims at the bottom of the application, and making everyone sign a declaration to that effect? This is a passport form, for God's sake!

What idiocy!

I was quite intrigued by this bit

I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani to be an imposter nabi

If he's an impostor then why call him a nabi at all?

This document is a true reflection of the low-on-IQ-high-on-rhetoric collective Paki mindset.

 

[hit&run]

 

[hit&run]

 

[Virendra]

Arab origins – The Express Tribune
I found this article by Salman Rashid.

Excerpts:

Every single Muslim in the subcontinent believes s/he is of Arab descent. If not
direct Arab descent, then the illustrious ancestor had come from either Iran or
Bukhara. Interestingly, the ancestor is always a great general or a saint. Never
ever have we heard anyone boasting of an intellectual for a forebear. We hear of
the progeny of savage robber kings, but there is no one who claims Abu Rehan
Al-Beruni or Ibn Rushd as a distant sire.

Arab origin is the favourite fiction of all subcontinental Muslims. Most claim
their ancestor arrived in Sindh with the army under Mohammad bin Qasim (MbQ).
But, I have heard of lineages reaching back to Old Testament prophets as well.
An elderly Janjua (Rajput), from the Salt Range told me of a forefather named
Ar, a son of the Prophet Isaac. Ar, he said, was the ancestor of the races that
spoke the Aryan tongue! ...

...Most of us are the progeny of converts. In their need to escape the
discrimination of the so-called higher castes, our ancestors converted to a
religion that in theory claimed to profess human equality regardless of colour
or caste. I use the words `in theory' because even as the Arabs converted our
ancestors to Islam, they discriminated against them for being "Hindis" as we
learn this from Ibn Batuta's own prejudices. And he is not alone...

...The challenge then is for all those, Baloch, Pathan, Punjabi et al, who have
invented illegitimate fathers for ourselves to get ourselves tested and know the
bitter truth...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What now heh?
But I would not suggest the neighbors to introspect. Because I'd like to see them gutted forever in the same mess as they are today.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[ejazr]

Kashmir problem exists only because of "Pandit" Nehru

That is an overstatement based on improper understanding of the historical context.

The Mirpur and western part of the J&K state has a large number of Punjabis and were pro-Pakistan. The Muslim Conference that was a rival to the valley based National Conference was aligned with the Muslim League. So while we had a pro-India population in the Kashmir valley, Jammu and Ladakh, we would have to face a more hostile population which was ethnically and linguistically Punjabi. After the first elections were held in Indian Kashmir in 1951, Sheikh Abdullah constituted the first constituent assembly and also passed a resolution re-affirming the ascension to India.

The second aspect that should be mentioned is that the British generals were still running the army of both countries and had already decided that J&K state will be part of Pakistan. Part of the Wavell's plan in 1942 apart from the partition was to consolidate Baluchistan and J&K alongwith other princely states around Pakistan to make it a bulwark against the USSR. This was a very powerful force which alongwith the US worked at an International level to force a settlement on the Kashmir issue. Nehru took the Kashmir issue to the UN in good faith were the basis of the UN formation was that there will be no accumalation of territory by force which is what Pakistan had tried to do. The understanding was that the UN would force a withdrawal of Pakistani forces and once a plebescite is conducted, it would be in India's favour. This is because the biggest concentration of the population was in the valley and alongwith the Jammu population, Nehru was sure of winning the plebescite.
But the Cold war alignments were soon visible to Nehru and after the realisation that the UN will not ask Pakistan to withdraw its troops and the 1954 US-Pakistan military pact Nehru completely rejected the plebesicte option as expected.

Sardar Patel is on record of having told the Pakistani negotiating parties that he was ready to offer J&K if Pakistan agreed to drop its claims from the Hyderabad state. This was in the early stages of the negotiations until Jinnah died in 1948.

An interesting relation between Kashmir & Hyderabad is little known. During the initial stages of the Kashmir conflict, Sardar Patel sent a back channel offer to Pakistan to swap Hyderabad for Kashmir. Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan, a Pakistani politician who carried the message, later recorded that rulers in Karachi, particularly Liaqat Ali Khan told him not to worry about the "Kashmir that would come to Pakistan anyhow". Hyderabad, deep inside India, inhabited by 20 million people was the "real prize". This is confirmed by Chaudhri Muhammad Ali, Liaquat's close confidant, in his masterly biography "The emergence of Pakistan" and is corroborated by a host of impeccable sources.

Hyderabad and Kashmir some parallels Lastupdate:- Sat, 2 Jul 2011 18:30:00 GMT GreaterKashmir.com

Nehru was one of the characters in the issue and not the only issue.
Other mistakes particularly in the post-independance era was agreeing to dismissing Sheikh Abdullah's govt unconstitutionally in Kashmir rather than handle dissenting opinions in a democratic manner. It took until 1974 to restore the confidence back in democracy. But soon after in the 1980s we again had Centre meddling in state politics which alongwith Pakistani help resulted into the first full blown insurgency in Kashmir which has taken 2 decades to quell.
We have examples of states all over India which show that when the centre starts meddling in state politics from Punjab to Tamil Nadu and from Gujarat to NE India that there is always a severe backlash fromt he local public and J&K is no different.

Some more further reading on this issue
Excerpts From The Speech Made By Mr.Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah (India) In The Security Council Meeting No.241 Held On 5 February 1948
Excerpts from Sheikh Abdullah's Opening Address to the J&K Constituent Assembly, 5 November 1951
Also important to read is what Shyama Prasad Mukherjee had discussed about this issue with Nehru and Abdullah
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...erjee-nehru-sheikh-abdullah-autonomy-j-k.html