Pakistan outruns India in nuclear weapons race: ICAN

[sabari]

No difference

 

[jackprince]

Remember 1965 .....................?

Yeah, we do. It was a stalemate favouring India as India occupied more area in Punjab region -fertile and inhabited when Pakistan occupied less area in desert of Rajasthan. So? Even with your uncle tom providing with latest tech in weaponary you could not get an upperhand then. What do you think you can achieve now, except getting buggered? Btw, don't shout we have nuclear weapons to threaten us, as if we don't have any. India has a no first use policy, which as pointed out by a member doesn't apply againt another nuclear power. Which means India doesn't have any no first use policy when it comes to Porkistan. We guys will do well to remember that after all you have so few cities that Indi needs only a few warheads to wipe out.

 

[bengalraider]

You mean to tell me that the western intelligence agencies who had no idea we were planning to conduct a nuclear test in 74 and in 98 notwithstanding the fact that the preparations for both tests were done in the open now suddenly claim to know the exact number of bombs we have?
Sheer hogwash!
As far as nuclear material is concerned Mr David Albright deposed in front of the U.S senate in 1999 that India had 4200kgs of unsafeguarded weapons grade nuclear material. Enough for 700 bombs.

 

[DingDong]

They are really gonna eat grass pretty soon. This Nuclear blackmail has become so stale and predictable that even our government has been to laughing at it.

In fact it plays in our favour, Pakistan has been jumping the Nuclear gun so rabidly that we may use the pretext of launch of a Unguided Rocket to launch full-scale Nuclear second-strike and nobody would question our motive.

 

[sabari]

That's ="DingDong, post: 1070784, member: 15366"]They are really gonna eat grass pretty soon. This Nuclear blackmail has become so stale and predictable that even our government has been to laughing at it.

In fact it plays in our favour, Pakistan has been jumping the Nuclear gun so rabidly that we may use the pretext of launch of a Unguided Rocket to launch full-scale Nuclear second-strike and nobody would question our motive.[/QUOTE]
That's true

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

Of Course hun that's the reason behind posting this thread. Lets have a reasonable discussion on it. I am not in the mood to TROLL. According to you its just a Media House i agree, you must be having an idea how many people are involved in telecasting a single report right? They showed it for 10 MINUTES for a reason. Lets get which is the fact. If you try and focus on what the reporters said ( DUNIYA BHAR K LIYE KHATRA) lol idk how can you be so unrealistic. Its not just a Channel its a complete mentality portray a complete network. If i am not wrong the network is called INDIA TV One of the leading ones dear!

It is really funny to watch your denial and diverting tactics. Just the name India TV doesn't mean it represents the entire nation. Some media house somewhere broadcasting some crap in order to drag in more viewers, we simply do not care, we are not Pakistan to waste time on such crowd pulling reels and rant and whine. Who told you India TV is a leading entity? Are you saying that just because you shared it here? What we ask is that is it really worth to spend that much money into nukes by starving your people? Even if you produce 10,000 nukes it will be of no use to you.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

Remember 1965 .....................?

Yes, Pakistan lost both militarily and diplomatically.
USA backed India on its stand on Kashmir.

 

[praneet.bajpaie]

Remember 1965 .....................?

Yes, this happened

 

[praneet.bajpaie]

@Barak2, weren't you coming to India? Please don't come, we don't want terrorists here.

 

[praneet.bajpaie]

That's because your brain is filled with Cow Dung your only seeing that everywhere lol

Why they dress like girls



is enough for you to get an explanation. sit back and relax!

Big deal. What are you trying to prove here?


Go to youtube, you will see how insecure and obsessed your country and your media is with India. Here nobody gives two hoots about you and your nation. Fact, believe that.

 

[Neo]

Pakistan takes its nuclear responsibilities seriously: White House
By Web Desk
Published: August 29, 2015

PHOTO: INTER-SERVICES PUBLIC RELATIONS

The White House said on Saturday that it is confident Pakistan is aware of its responsibilities pertaining to the safety and security of its nuclear weapons.

“We continue to be confident that the government of Pakistan is aware of those responsibilities and takes those responsibilities quite seriously,” White House spokesperson Josh Earnest said at a news conference.

The remark came a day after two leading US think tanks claimed in a report that Pakistan would have more than 350 nuclear weapons in a decade, which means that the country would have the third largest stock piles of nuclear weapons after the US and Russia.

Read: Report on weapons: ‘Pakistan outpacing India in nuclear race’

Commenting on the report, Earnest said, “I did see the report. I don’t have an official administration assessment to share with you. I would say there a couple things that come to mind.”

The spokesperson went on to add that responsibility for nuclear stockpile remains with all countries who have secureda nuclear stockpile.

“This applies not just to Pakistan but to countries around the world that have a nuclear stockpile – they have a responsibility for securing that nuclear stockpile.”

Read: Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal could become world’s third-biggest: report

Meanwhile a statement issued by Pakistan’s Foreign Office, regarding the nuclear report said “Such utterly baseless reports are designed to divert attention from the exponential increase in India’s fissile material stockpiles.”

The White House spokesperson also added that President Barack Obama had set a long-term goal of a world free of nuclear weapons. A year after becoming president, Obama had hosted the first nuclear security summit in Washington to galvanise world leaders to achieve this goal.

“The President’s made clear that he has a long-term goal of a world without nuclear weapons. And the President has convened, you know, every couple of years at an international summit to try to counter nuclear proliferation. And that continues to be a top foreign policy priority of his. I believe we’re cited to have a next meeting next year. So the president is certainly looking forward to that,” Earnest said.

Read: ‘Fastest growing’: Pakistan dismisses nuclear arsenal report as baseless

The US president has also announced to host the fourth and last Nuclear Security Summit of his presidency March-April of next year. Many world leaders including Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected to attend the summit.

Soon after the report was released in Washington, the US State Department had cautioned Pakistan from flaunting its nuclear status as it would worsen tensions between India and Pakistan.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/946957/...clear-responsibilities-seriously-white-house/

 

[Neo]

Is third largest large enough?
Pervez Hoodbhoy

MANY Pakistanis are thrilled by the news originating from two think tanks in Washington. Although no real evidence has been presented, they claim that the Pakistani nuclear arsenal may become the world’s third largest over the next five to 10 years. The current number, estimated at around 120 Hiroshima-sized warheads, could increase to around 350.

This would exceed numbers held by France (290), China (240), and UK (190).

Is the sky the limit? If not, what is the number that Pakistan “must have”? Seventy years ago, just one bomb had turned Hiroshima to rubble. Today, if Pakistan and India use even half their arsenals, the radioactive ash and smoke would destroy not just both countries but also cause a global catastrophe. Nevertheless, neither specifies a cap. The only figures I have ever seen are speculations published by a retired Pakistani air force officer.

His logic goes something like this: adequate deterrence requires two Indian cities to be hit with five nuclear bombs each. Assume 50pc probability of successfully penetrating enemy defences. Suppose also that 50pc of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are destroyed in an Indian pre-emptive first strike. Using rules of arithmetic that even a 10-year old knows, he puts the desired number at 40 bombs. Then, changing probabilities from 50pc to 90pc, he raises the cap to a staggering 1,000! For the reader: change two cities to three, and five bombs to six, and calculate the change. It’s huge!

Why this open-ended warhead and missile race between India and Pakistan?
The illogic stares you in the face. Arbitrary input parameters generate arbitrary outputs. And yet all this can be made to appear as the end product of a logical process. But deterrence is purely psychological and nobody has a clue about what is sufficient. Probabilities in a nuclear war environment cannot be properly estimated because the unknown massively outweighs the known. Garbage in, garbage out!

The Indian side is just as guilty of massive leaps of logic. The high priest of India’s nuclear policy in the 1990s, K. Subrahmanyam, vehemently asserted that nuclear arms racing was a Cold War concept totally alien to subcontinental thinking. In the late 1980s and early 1990s he, as well as his hawkish Pakistani counterparts, claimed that the nuclear philosophy of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) was the product of twisted Western minds. We, the people of South Asia, were supposedly wiser and would limit destruction only to “what was needed”.

Subrahmanyam and I had first clashed on the subject of India’s nuclear intentions at a meeting held at the University of Chicago in 1992, held to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Enrico Fermi’s nuclear reactor. This was six years before India actually tested. We crossed swords off and on at various meetings for nearly 20 years.

The last time I met this guru of India’s nuclear votaries was just before he died of cancer. This was in Delhi at a meeting held in 2010 at IDSA (Institute of Defence and Strategic Analysis) of which he had been director. I reminded him of his earlier belief that Pakistan could not develop nuclear weapons. Hadn’t he and his colleagues actually weakened India by producing a level playing field? And where was his theory of no racing? Perhaps because of his illness,

Subrahmanyam’s response was weak and unconvincing. But the real reason is that events have proved him wrong.

Like Pakistan, India also refuses to set an upper limit on its arsenal. But why have they gone into open-ended racing when both are saddled with enormous problems of resource scarcity and poverty? A large part of the answer has to do with the nature of modern industrial production.

Imagine setting up a factory that makes jam from peaches. You need to invest in expensive machinery, train management and engineering staff, and set up an acquisition process for raw materials. If you produced only one batch of jam, each jar would probably cost Rs1 million. But when in steady production, that cost could decrease to Rs100.

While the price reduction for warheads is not quite so dramatic, every additional one costs much less than the first one once the machinery, management, and personnel are in place. After routine procedures are established, the system goes on autopilot. The urge to keep production increases because the livelihood of tens of thousands now hinges upon this. There is, of course, a crucial difference. The public buys jam, but the consumer of warheads is the missile-making complex. The system feeds on its own output, and keeps expanding.

To keep everything going, nothing is better than a real threat. Failing that, one needs to be invented. Pakistan’s militarists got lucky in 2010 when India’s former army chief, Gen Deepak Kapoor, blurted out his infamous Operation Cold Start. Although it proved impossible to operationalise, Cold Start provided yet another reason for jacking up Pakistan’s numbers. Now tactical nuclear weapons (TNW) could be developed as a defensive measure. Although much is made of TNWs, in fact they are not very effective militarily — invading frontline combat units can be sufficiently well-hardened and dispersed so as to not make good nuclear targets.

India and Pakistan are seeing the emergence of a nuclear military-industrial complex that is distorting priorities. This term was first used by president Dwight D. Eisenhower in his speech of 1961. He hit the nail on the head when he declared that, “we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex”. But America’s mad rush towards militarisation became unstoppable. By 1967, the Cold War saw the US warhead count reach a peak of 31,255 — enough to destroy the world four and a half times over.

In the present climate of a tribal blood feud between two nuclear-armed neighbors, vision and judgement have been severely impaired. Since 1998 we have pretended to be two responsible nuclear states. But calling off talks and hurling accusations (as well as artillery shells) exposes this myth. Meanwhile, those who stand to gain more power and influence from nuclear expansion are multiplying in numbers. It is hard to imagine what can restore sanity.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1203511/is-third-largest-large-enough

 

[sorcerer]

You have to do this if you have good neighbour like India as Pakistan was actually forced to become nuclear power for its survival and security . Now India will stay away from doing any misadventure as that of 1971

Its the other way around...you cant even use or tactical pukes on India any more.
Basically...your nuke factories are just making them tactical nukes for Saudi which is now getting flanked by ISIS which rightfully funds your nuke program.

 

[bengalraider]

Is third largest large enough?
Pervez Hoodbhoy

MANY Pakistanis are thrilled by the news originating from two think tanks in Washington. Although no real evidence has been presented, they claim that the Pakistani nuclear arsenal may become the world’s third largest over the next five to 10 years. The current number, estimated at around 120 Hiroshima-sized warheads, could increase to around 350.

This would exceed numbers held by France (290), China (240), and UK (190).

Is the sky the limit? If not, what is the number that Pakistan “must have”? Seventy years ago, just one bomb had turned Hiroshima to rubble. Today, if Pakistan and India use even half their arsenals, the radioactive ash and smoke would destroy not just both countries but also cause a global catastrophe. Nevertheless, neither specifies a cap. The only figures I have ever seen are speculations published by a retired Pakistani air force officer.

His logic goes something like this: adequate deterrence requires two Indian cities to be hit with five nuclear bombs each. Assume 50pc probability of successfully penetrating enemy defences. Suppose also that 50pc of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are destroyed in an Indian pre-emptive first strike. Using rules of arithmetic that even a 10-year old knows, he puts the desired number at 40 bombs. Then, changing probabilities from 50pc to 90pc, he raises the cap to a staggering 1,000! For the reader: change two cities to three, and five bombs to six, and calculate the change. It’s huge!

Why this open-ended warhead and missile race between India and Pakistan?
The illogic stares you in the face. Arbitrary input parameters generate arbitrary outputs. And yet all this can be made to appear as the end product of a logical process. But deterrence is purely psychological and nobody has a clue about what is sufficient. Probabilities in a nuclear war environment cannot be properly estimated because the unknown massively outweighs the known. Garbage in, garbage out!

The Indian side is just as guilty of massive leaps of logic. The high priest of India’s nuclear policy in the 1990s, K. Subrahmanyam, vehemently asserted that nuclear arms racing was a Cold War concept totally alien to subcontinental thinking. In the late 1980s and early 1990s he, as well as his hawkish Pakistani counterparts, claimed that the nuclear philosophy of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) was the product of twisted Western minds. We, the people of South Asia, were supposedly wiser and would limit destruction only to “what was needed”.

Subrahmanyam and I had first clashed on the subject of India’s nuclear intentions at a meeting held at the University of Chicago in 1992, held to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Enrico Fermi’s nuclear reactor. This was six years before India actually tested. We crossed swords off and on at various meetings for nearly 20 years.

The last time I met this guru of India’s nuclear votaries was just before he died of cancer. This was in Delhi at a meeting held in 2010 at IDSA (Institute of Defence and Strategic Analysis) of which he had been director. I reminded him of his earlier belief that Pakistan could not develop nuclear weapons. Hadn’t he and his colleagues actually weakened India by producing a level playing field? And where was his theory of no racing? Perhaps because of his illness,

Subrahmanyam’s response was weak and unconvincing. But the real reason is that events have proved him wrong.

Like Pakistan, India also refuses to set an upper limit on its arsenal. But why have they gone into open-ended racing when both are saddled with enormous problems of resource scarcity and poverty? A large part of the answer has to do with the nature of modern industrial production.

Imagine setting up a factory that makes jam from peaches. You need to invest in expensive machinery, train management and engineering staff, and set up an acquisition process for raw materials. If you produced only one batch of jam, each jar would probably cost Rs1 million. But when in steady production, that cost could decrease to Rs100.

While the price reduction for warheads is not quite so dramatic, every additional one costs much less than the first one once the machinery, management, and personnel are in place. After routine procedures are established, the system goes on autopilot. The urge to keep production increases because the livelihood of tens of thousands now hinges upon this. There is, of course, a crucial difference. The public buys jam, but the consumer of warheads is the missile-making complex. The system feeds on its own output, and keeps expanding.

To keep everything going, nothing is better than a real threat. Failing that, one needs to be invented. Pakistan’s militarists got lucky in 2010 when India’s former army chief, Gen Deepak Kapoor, blurted out his infamous Operation Cold Start. Although it proved impossible to operationalise, Cold Start provided yet another reason for jacking up Pakistan’s numbers. Now tactical nuclear weapons (TNW) could be developed as a defensive measure. Although much is made of TNWs, in fact they are not very effective militarily — invading frontline combat units can be sufficiently well-hardened and dispersed so as to not make good nuclear targets.

India and Pakistan are seeing the emergence of a nuclear military-industrial complex that is distorting priorities. This term was first used by president Dwight D. Eisenhower in his speech of 1961. He hit the nail on the head when he declared that, “we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex”. But America’s mad rush tow

http://www.dawn.com/news/1203511/is-third-largest-large-enough

You know I read the online edition of the dawn at least 6 days a week. Mr hoodbhoy is undoubtedly one of the better Pakistani commentators.
Anyhoo love the articles on food &travel in Pakistan the dawn publishes, good stuff!

 

[Screambowl]

Calm down it was your Indian mate who brought this hunger thing and said we are having more nuclear weapons while our population don't have enough for basic things

I just wana say, that we have more fissile material than you can ever imagine to have. Hence we can produce seriously a lot of N weapons.

But if you wana troll, then that's your level

 

[Barak2]

Come on guys firstly don't bring religious talk because it has nothing to do with such things. When you guys go speechless you take a comfort zone from talking nonsense. Well to us its a sensitive topic so i won't really be commenting on it because i don't afford some creeps talking of something like that. If any can talk like a MAN then its welcoming for me. Using swear words and and all the creepy stuff isn't gonna make sense in an way. You guys are 99% of the forum and barely 1% or members belongs to Pakistan so it isn't a deal for me to take care of each n every comment. Its enough for me to understand the insecurity level. NUKES can't be denied so better get the fact peeps ! and the AWFUL part you guys are 1.252 billion but still 182.1 million of PAKISTANI'S are the biggest threat for you and can make your forces and govt sleepless. IF YOU GUYS KEPT POSTING BS sadly ill have to to stop responding because i RESPECT RELIGIONS. Bringing out the hatred awfully and screaming isn't PAKISTAN'S Thing!

 

[rock127]

Another wave of ISI trained Paki troll brigade from Paki forum.

Does DFI need this?

 

[thethinker]

Come on guys firstly don't bring religious talk because it has nothing to do with such things. When you guys go speechless you take a comfort zone from talking nonsense. Well to us its a sensitive topic so i won't really be commenting on it because i don't afford some creeps talking of something like that. If any can talk like a MAN then its welcoming for me. Using swear words and and all the creepy stuff isn't gonna make sense in an way. You guys are 99% of the forum and barely 1% or members belongs to Pakistan so it isn't a deal for me to take care of each n every comment. Its enough for me to understand the insecurity level. NUKES can't be denied so better get the fact peeps ! and the AWFUL part you guys are 1.252 billion but still 182.1 million of PAKISTANI'S are the biggest threat for you and can make your forces and govt sleepless. IF YOU GUYS KEPT POSTING BS sadly ill have to to stop responding because i RESPECT RELIGIONS. Bringing out the hatred awfully and screaming isn't PAKISTAN'S Thing!

But here is what you commented on another thread :

"Lol don't forget your Bollwood ( Backbone) is being ruled by MUSLIMS!! Like the whole country was ruled by them (MUGHALS). Better be realistic and love posting cars for sell from OLX shows how dumb you are."

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...wer-to-saif-ali-khan-lady.69539/#post-1070926

Hypocrisy much or just playing victim..again?

 

[Screambowl]

Lol your brief answer proves the smell right. Let's keep it straight. I don't want you to Google more and put all the stuff that barely someone will read.
Well if these are the facts what's wrong with India Media? Its that simple boi I wanna know the cause behind this report Lmao.

Beta there is leak in your nuclear establishment, which is giving so correct figures out about your nuclear stregth LOL .. some one has literally f*cked ISI's security apparatus on Pak's nuclear security hahahaha!!

 

[Screambowl]

Remember 1965 .....................?

yes, we entered Lahore's outer canal and then seize fire was announced damn .. .

Doesn't matter, my gf is a Paki .. tu mera sala hai bey.. chal salam thok