Naval LCA Tejas

[Akula]

How trustworthy could this be?

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy’s Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy's Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?

Is India's HAL Tejas jet drowning to F-18 Super Hornet and Rafale jets as Indian Navy refuses to induct Tejas aircraft for INS Vikrant?

eurasiantimes.com

It's Eurasian times.

 

[Bleh]

Could something like this at the central pylon, be utilised to increase the skyjump takeoff speed & payload of NLCA?

 

[charlie]

Could something like this at the central pylon, be utilised to increase the skyjump takeoff speed & payload of NLCA?

Yes but operationally it’s not efficient.

isn’t this the one that Dr Kalam worked on, I think I read it in wings of fire.

 

[WolfPack86]

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy’s Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?
As India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant (IAC-1) commenced sea trials three weeks ago, the attention shifts to the possible carrier-based fighter to operate from its deck, since the Indian Navy rejected the Tejas LCA three years ago

With the Vikrant being at least two years away from being fully operational even after commissioning, the problems cited by the Navy with the LCA Navy are unlikely to be resolved by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) soon.

ADA under India’s Ministry of Defense is tasked with overseeing the development of the LCA program. In addition, US aerospace agency Boeing has aggressively pitched its F/A-18 Super Hornet Block III carrier-borne fighter to the Indian Navy.

Why Indian Navy Rejected Tejas
On December 2, 2016, then Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral Sunil Lanba announced the Navy’s rejection of the “overweight” LCA Tejas.

The LCA Navy was adjudged to be unable to optimally operate from a carrier owing to being a single-engine aircraft when the service primarily wishes a powerful twin-engine jet, poor thrust-to-weight ratio to take off with a full fuel and arms payload, and issues with a weak under fuselage and landing gear.

The Navy, therefore, plans to operate Russian MiG-29K carrier-borne fighters, that currently fly from the INS Vikramaditya, 45 of which are said to be in service. Both the Tejas and the MiG-29K were originally slated to operate from the INS Vikrant.


The Navy was supposed to get around 50 LCA Tejas jets before it declared its dissatisfaction with the plane. The Tejas had witnessed several milestones, with the biggest on January 15 last year after it took off from the INS Vikramaditya.

Prior to that on January 11, 2020, it landed on the Vikramaditya with the arrested hook perfectly connecting with the arrester cables.

The Navy by then had initiated its Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter (MRCBF) program, for which French Dassault Aviation is again pitching the carrier-capable version of the Rafale, along with the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet Block III.

Boeing even demonstrated the Hornet’s Short Takeoff But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) compatibility for Indian carriers on December 21 last year, during which it took off a ski-jump from a Shore-Based Test Facility (SBTF) from the Naval Air Station at Patuxent River.

Earlier that month, the Indian Navy had said it would combine its MRCBF program with the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) plan to procure 114 twin-engine fighters. Rafale and the Hornet are contenders for this IAF procurement too.
“We have the MiG-29K operating from the Vikramaditya and will operate from the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC-1). To replace them, we have taken up a case for the Multi-Role Carrier-Borne Fighters (MRCBF) which we are trying to do along with the IAF,” Navy chief Admiral Karambir Singh had said.

It was in 2017 that the Navy issued a Request For Information (RFI) to foreign players for 57 new fighters.

Twin-Engine TEDBF
Now, this is where it gets trickier. The Indian Navy has also announced working with the ADA and Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the indigenous Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF).

This commitment, along with budgetary constraints, has led the Navy to cut down the MRCBF procurement from 57 fighters to 36 units.

Even synergizing the program with the IAF would be challenging since the latter is open to even single-engine fighters whereas the Navy is particular about a twin-engine configuration for its MRCBF.

Veterans say the Tejas Navy should not be languishing in a hangar, awaiting trials, and India must not repeat its mistake with HF-24 Marut, in which prematurely abandoning a painstakingly developed jet, led to critical techno-industrial and aerospace manufacturing skills being lost.

“The design, production, and flight-testing of the LCA and LCA-Navy prototypes have generated invaluable experience, knowledge, and data which must not go waste. Its development must be pursued, and on successful completion of its ship-trials program, the LCA-Navy can be assigned a carrier-borne operational (or even training) role commensurate with the limitations imposed by its performance,” says Admiral Arun Prakash (retired), former navy chief and naval combat aviator.

Air Marshal Philip Rajkumar (Retd) stood up for the LCA program as a whole, countering the running criticism of it being the most delayed fighter program in the world and regretted that it was subject to “unwarranted criticism”.

Rajkumar, who flew the first 98 test flights of the Tejas as a test pilot, said the development timeline is wrongly taken from 1983 from when the project was merely approved by then PM Indira Gandhi.

“But the sum of Rs 2,188 crore was allotted only in 1993 and the first Technology Demonstrator (TD) flew in 2001.

The duration should therefore be calculated from either 1993 or 2001. Even the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, and SAAB Gripen took around 30 years, despite these countries having prior experience in aircraft design,” Rajkumar said.

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy's Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?

Is India's HAL Tejas jet drowning to F-18 Super Hornet and Rafale jets as Indian Navy refuses to induct Tejas aircraft for INS Vikrant?

eurasiantimes.com

 

[samsaptaka]

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy’s Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?
As India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant (IAC-1) commenced sea trials three weeks ago, the attention shifts to the possible carrier-based fighter to operate from its deck, since the Indian Navy rejected the Tejas LCA three years ago

With the Vikrant being at least two years away from being fully operational even after commissioning, the problems cited by the Navy with the LCA Navy are unlikely to be resolved by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) soon.

ADA under India’s Ministry of Defense is tasked with overseeing the development of the LCA program. In addition, US aerospace agency Boeing has aggressively pitched its F/A-18 Super Hornet Block III carrier-borne fighter to the Indian Navy.

Why Indian Navy Rejected Tejas
On December 2, 2016, then Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral Sunil Lanba announced the Navy’s rejection of the “overweight” LCA Tejas.

The LCA Navy was adjudged to be unable to optimally operate from a carrier owing to being a single-engine aircraft when the service primarily wishes a powerful twin-engine jet, poor thrust-to-weight ratio to take off with a full fuel and arms payload, and issues with a weak under fuselage and landing gear.

The Navy, therefore, plans to operate Russian MiG-29K carrier-borne fighters, that currently fly from the INS Vikramaditya, 45 of which are said to be in service. Both the Tejas and the MiG-29K were originally slated to operate from the INS Vikrant.


The Navy was supposed to get around 50 LCA Tejas jets before it declared its dissatisfaction with the plane. The Tejas had witnessed several milestones, with the biggest on January 15 last year after it took off from the INS Vikramaditya.

Prior to that on January 11, 2020, it landed on the Vikramaditya with the arrested hook perfectly connecting with the arrester cables.

The Navy by then had initiated its Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter (MRCBF) program, for which French Dassault Aviation is again pitching the carrier-capable version of the Rafale, along with the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet Block III.

Boeing even demonstrated the Hornet’s Short Takeoff But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) compatibility for Indian carriers on December 21 last year, during which it took off a ski-jump from a Shore-Based Test Facility (SBTF) from the Naval Air Station at Patuxent River.

Earlier that month, the Indian Navy had said it would combine its MRCBF program with the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) plan to procure 114 twin-engine fighters. Rafale and the Hornet are contenders for this IAF procurement too.
“We have the MiG-29K operating from the Vikramaditya and will operate from the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC-1). To replace them, we have taken up a case for the Multi-Role Carrier-Borne Fighters (MRCBF) which we are trying to do along with the IAF,” Navy chief Admiral Karambir Singh had said.

It was in 2017 that the Navy issued a Request For Information (RFI) to foreign players for 57 new fighters.

Twin-Engine TEDBF
Now, this is where it gets trickier. The Indian Navy has also announced working with the ADA and Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the indigenous Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF).

This commitment, along with budgetary constraints, has led the Navy to cut down the MRCBF procurement from 57 fighters to 36 units.

Even synergizing the program with the IAF would be challenging since the latter is open to even single-engine fighters whereas the Navy is particular about a twin-engine configuration for its MRCBF.

Veterans say the Tejas Navy should not be languishing in a hangar, awaiting trials, and India must not repeat its mistake with HF-24 Marut, in which prematurely abandoning a painstakingly developed jet, led to critical techno-industrial and aerospace manufacturing skills being lost.

“The design, production, and flight-testing of the LCA and LCA-Navy prototypes have generated invaluable experience, knowledge, and data which must not go waste. Its development must be pursued, and on successful completion of its ship-trials program, the LCA-Navy can be assigned a carrier-borne operational (or even training) role commensurate with the limitations imposed by its performance,” says Admiral Arun Prakash (retired), former navy chief and naval combat aviator.

Air Marshal Philip Rajkumar (Retd) stood up for the LCA program as a whole, countering the running criticism of it being the most delayed fighter program in the world and regretted that it was subject to “unwarranted criticism”.

Rajkumar, who flew the first 98 test flights of the Tejas as a test pilot, said the development timeline is wrongly taken from 1983 from when the project was merely approved by then PM Indira Gandhi.

“But the sum of Rs 2,188 crore was allotted only in 1993 and the first Technology Demonstrator (TD) flew in 2001.

The duration should therefore be calculated from either 1993 or 2001. Even the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, and SAAB Gripen took around 30 years, despite these countries having prior experience in aircraft design,” Rajkumar said.

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy's Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?

Is India's HAL Tejas jet drowning to F-18 Super Hornet and Rafale jets as Indian Navy refuses to induct Tejas aircraft for INS Vikrant?

eurasiantimes.com

Usual hit job by media dalala. They keep rehashing old stuff. Any local defence product is subject to negative coverage, anything phoren and the deal is almost signed ! Navy to procure xxx yyy from US, UK blah blah...utter nonsense. Earlier I used to believe this, not anymore, ground reality is so different from what these "news" media dalala show

 

[Starlight]

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy’s Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?
As India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant (IAC-1) commenced sea trials three weeks ago, the attention shifts to the possible carrier-based fighter to operate from its deck, since the Indian Navy rejected the Tejas LCA three years ago

With the Vikrant being at least two years away from being fully operational even after commissioning, the problems cited by the Navy with the LCA Navy are unlikely to be resolved by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) soon.

ADA under India’s Ministry of Defense is tasked with overseeing the development of the LCA program. In addition, US aerospace agency Boeing has aggressively pitched its F/A-18 Super Hornet Block III carrier-borne fighter to the Indian Navy.

Why Indian Navy Rejected Tejas
On December 2, 2016, then Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral Sunil Lanba announced the Navy’s rejection of the “overweight” LCA Tejas.

The LCA Navy was adjudged to be unable to optimally operate from a carrier owing to being a single-engine aircraft when the service primarily wishes a powerful twin-engine jet, poor thrust-to-weight ratio to take off with a full fuel and arms payload, and issues with a weak under fuselage and landing gear.

The Navy, therefore, plans to operate Russian MiG-29K carrier-borne fighters, that currently fly from the INS Vikramaditya, 45 of which are said to be in service. Both the Tejas and the MiG-29K were originally slated to operate from the INS Vikrant.


The Navy was supposed to get around 50 LCA Tejas jets before it declared its dissatisfaction with the plane. The Tejas had witnessed several milestones, with the biggest on January 15 last year after it took off from the INS Vikramaditya.

Prior to that on January 11, 2020, it landed on the Vikramaditya with the arrested hook perfectly connecting with the arrester cables.

The Navy by then had initiated its Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter (MRCBF) program, for which French Dassault Aviation is again pitching the carrier-capable version of the Rafale, along with the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet Block III.

Boeing even demonstrated the Hornet’s Short Takeoff But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) compatibility for Indian carriers on December 21 last year, during which it took off a ski-jump from a Shore-Based Test Facility (SBTF) from the Naval Air Station at Patuxent River.

Earlier that month, the Indian Navy had said it would combine its MRCBF program with the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) plan to procure 114 twin-engine fighters. Rafale and the Hornet are contenders for this IAF procurement too.
“We have the MiG-29K operating from the Vikramaditya and will operate from the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC-1). To replace them, we have taken up a case for the Multi-Role Carrier-Borne Fighters (MRCBF) which we are trying to do along with the IAF,” Navy chief Admiral Karambir Singh had said.

It was in 2017 that the Navy issued a Request For Information (RFI) to foreign players for 57 new fighters.

Twin-Engine TEDBF
Now, this is where it gets trickier. The Indian Navy has also announced working with the ADA and Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the indigenous Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF).

This commitment, along with budgetary constraints, has led the Navy to cut down the MRCBF procurement from 57 fighters to 36 units.

Even synergizing the program with the IAF would be challenging since the latter is open to even single-engine fighters whereas the Navy is particular about a twin-engine configuration for its MRCBF.

Veterans say the Tejas Navy should not be languishing in a hangar, awaiting trials, and India must not repeat its mistake with HF-24 Marut, in which prematurely abandoning a painstakingly developed jet, led to critical techno-industrial and aerospace manufacturing skills being lost.

“The design, production, and flight-testing of the LCA and LCA-Navy prototypes have generated invaluable experience, knowledge, and data which must not go waste. Its development must be pursued, and on successful completion of its ship-trials program, the LCA-Navy can be assigned a carrier-borne operational (or even training) role commensurate with the limitations imposed by its performance,” says Admiral Arun Prakash (retired), former navy chief and naval combat aviator.

Air Marshal Philip Rajkumar (Retd) stood up for the LCA program as a whole, countering the running criticism of it being the most delayed fighter program in the world and regretted that it was subject to “unwarranted criticism”.

Rajkumar, who flew the first 98 test flights of the Tejas as a test pilot, said the development timeline is wrongly taken from 1983 from when the project was merely approved by then PM Indira Gandhi.

“But the sum of Rs 2,188 crore was allotted only in 1993 and the first Technology Demonstrator (TD) flew in 2001.

The duration should therefore be calculated from either 1993 or 2001. Even the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, and SAAB Gripen took around 30 years, despite these countries having prior experience in aircraft design,” Rajkumar said.

India’s Most-Ambitious HAL Tejas Could Succumb To F-18 Super Hornet In Navy's Carrier-Based Fighter Jet Deal?

Is India's HAL Tejas jet drowning to F-18 Super Hornet and Rafale jets as Indian Navy refuses to induct Tejas aircraft for INS Vikrant?

eurasiantimes.com

Does anyone think the India Naval air arm is filled with fools?! They have decided to buy more MIG-29 K fighter aircraft and make twin engine Tejas just as the third carrier is ready. Please remember the other aircraft have to fit on board, the SH and Rafale do not fit on both the IN carriers lift systems.

Only suggestion received here was to make a nose lifting assembly for the SH by Boeing to fit on lifts of both the carriers, who are nurturing the very fledgling indegenous naval air arm, the Rafale doesn't even have foldable wings. Looking at things such as flight crew and maintenance training, it would be idiotic to buy another type of aircraft and waste Naval Officer and Sailor career time on another training timeline instead of buying the current MIG-29 K with upgrades and avionics solutions for the apparent poor availability, which was written up only to bring the twin engine Tejas quicker to FOC.
And don't worry the twin engine LCA will out perform all the requirements.

Mikoyan has confirmed the quick upgrade and availability solutions to IN based on what flight and maintenance crews have learned from the decade spent with the Naval Fulcrum.

'Agar timeless Karna hai Babulog toh koi aur desh ke forum mein bakwas dalte raho aur faltu ego-boosting reply expect karo.'

 

[Sir pe tapla]

Does anyone think the India Naval air arm is filled with fools?! They have decided to buy more MIG-29 K fighter aircraft and make twin engine Tejas just as the third carrier is ready. Please remember the other aircraft have to fit on board, the SH and Rafale do not fit on both the IN carriers lift systems.

Only suggestion received here was to make a nose lifting assembly for the SH by Boeing to fit on lifts of both the carriers, who are nurturing the very fledgling indegenous naval air arm, the Rafale doesn't even have foldable wings. Looking at things such as flight crew and maintenance training, it would be idiotic to buy another type of aircraft and waste Naval Officer and Sailor career time on another training timeline instead of buying the current MIG-29 K with upgrades and avionics solutions for the apparent poor availability, which was written up only to bring the twin engine Tejas quicker to FOC.
And don't worry the twin engine LCA will out perform all the requirements.

Mikoyan has confirmed the quick upgrade and availability solutions to IN based on what flight and maintenance crews have learned from the decade spent with the Naval Fulcrum.

'Agar timeless Karna hai Babulog toh koi aur desh ke forum mein bakwas dalte raho aur faltu ego-boosting reply expect karo.'

How do we know that 3rd carrier is being made? Has this been officially confirmed?

 

[Bleh]

How do we know that 3rd carrier is being made? Has this been officially confirmed?

We're marlins a dry dock that can sit a 70k ton class ship... To be completed by 2023.

But technically we won't know until then, but the pressure for a 3rd carrier is building

 

[Sir pe tapla]

We're marlins a dry dock that can sit a 70k ton class ship... To be completed by 2023.

But technically we won't know until then, but the pressure for a 3rd carrier is building

Tell the Navy to draw up plans for a 70k class Catobar Carrier from now itself instead of waiting for the dock to get completed. That way there won't be any time wasted.

And do we have enough strong warships to act as a carrier escort for this?

 

[LakshmanPST7]

Tell the Navy to draw up plans for a 70k class Catobar Carrier from now itself instead of waiting for the dock to get completed. That way there won't be any time wasted.

And do we have enough strong warships to act as a carrier escort for this?

Problem is not Navy... It is the budget... It is the Govt. that needs to sanction the 3rd Carrier...

 

[Starlight]

How do we know that 3rd carrier is being made? Has this been officially confirmed?

How do we know that 3rd carrier is being made? Has this been officially

It's not official, it based on a timeline which can be done. As the twin engine Tejas gets ready with LSPs and recives FOC after testing, the 3rd carrier should be in sea trails. That's one choice I can believe is perfect for the next 15 years.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Not sure why people are discussing up third carrier in this thread. Most of the people themselves know another carrier is out of the question atleast till 2030. IAF and the army has more pressing needs than the Navy themselves need for an carrier. Infact Navy is getting budget for SSBN and SSN under special fund separate from MoD. Better concentrate on subs and twin engine fighter this decade.

 

[Marliii]

Not sure why people are discussing up third carrier in this thread. Most of the people themselves know another carrier is out of the question atleast till 2030. IAF and the army has more pressing needs than the Navy themselves need for an carrier. Infact Navy is getting budget for SSBN and SSN under special fund separate from MoD. Better concentrate on subs and twin engine fighter this decade.

The third carrier is gonna be sanctioned by the 2025 or 2026 just see.when type 003 touches water

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The third carrier is gonna be sanctioned by the 2025 or 2026 just see.when type 003 touches water

And what purpose does it exactly serve? Even in face value, construction timeline is 10 years with conventional propulsion, you are looking 20B worth project including fighters and helis. Not to forget to dedicate one future SSN, destroyer, frigate, ASW corvette and a fleet tanker. And for what? If it's nuclear then we need to start investing in a shore based reactor now and cost to balloon to 15B expectedly.
Let's plug the gaps in Navy for now with MCVs, ASW helis (we ordered just 24, but that requirement is quite a lot), NUH (hanging fire since a decade) and P75i or P76. These projects will cost approximately 20B themselves and they actually help us win a war very very effectively even without an third carrier in Indian ocean.

IAF squadron strength is at around 34 squadron and with expected retirement of 4 MiG 21 and 2Jags squadron and expected induction of 4, Mk1A will just balance them. Our sanctioned sqd is 42. Need ....

Shouldn't be thinking of a third carrier until we reach 8-10T economy.

 

[Starlight]

And what purpose does it exactly serve? Even in face value, construction timeline is 10 years with conventional propulsion, you are looking 20B worth project including fighters and helis. Not to forget to dedicate one future SSN, destroyer, frigate, ASW corvette and a fleet tanker. And for what? If it's nuclear then we need to start investing in a shore based reactor now and cost to balloon to 15B expectedly.
Let's plug the gaps in Navy for now with MCVs, ASW helis (we ordered just 24, but that requirement is quite a lot), NUH (hanging fire since a decade) and P75i or P76. These projects will cost approximately 20B themselves and they actually help us win a war very very effectively even without an third carrier in Indian ocean.

IAF squadron strength is at around 34 squadron and with expected retirement of 4 MiG 21 and 2Jags squadron and expected induction of 4, Mk1A will just balance them. Our sanctioned sqd is 42. Need ....

Shouldn't be thinking of a third carrier until we reach 8-10T economy.

When you say We you mean Canada?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

When you say We you mean Canada?

Ok newbie. I have been long before I even moved to Canada. So get your horses straight.

 

[LakshmanPST7]

 

[Bleh]

 

[another_armchair]

Are we sure the 3rd aircraft carrier won't be nuclear powered?

 

[Bleh]

Are we sure the 3rd aircraft carrier won't be nuclear powered?

We aren't sure of anything