Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Kumaoni]

If Babus are buying small number of these show off kits for international exercises then Babus clearly understand the importance and concept of modern soldiers' PPE. But why Babus won't make these kits standard issue? Like what the actual fcuk???

They are LAZY ASSES. That’s it. They know what needs to be done but are too lazy to do it.

 

[mcpo117]

They are LAZY ASSES. That’s it. They know what needs to be done but are too lazy to do it.

What lazy? Just 100 to 1000 orders for a battalion.

 

[RedHood108]

What lazy? Just 100 to 1000 orders for a battalion.

I think the biggest problem is the procurement process.

COs have reserve funds allocated to them for making small purchases. But when we go for a bigger procurements. It has to be through tendering process. And L1 bidder gets the contract.

I am sure anyday. Companies making these type of BPJs will quote lower price

Than companies making these BPJ.

The main problem I believe arises from the fact that for large procurements. There is a big communication gap between the end Users & MOD that makes the procurement.

This issue could have been resolved by involving the end users during the procurement process. But then again, there comes the problem of hierarchy of decision making & also potential kick-backs.

One potential solution for this issue could be standardization of Plate Carrier design.

(On a different note the Armasen vest seem to be in active use with different SoF groups in the valley)

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[mcpo117]

I think the biggest problem is the procurement process.

COs have reserve funds allocated to them for making small purchases. But when we go for a bigger procurements. It has to be through tendering process. And L1 bidder gets the contract.

I am sure anyday. Companies making these type of BPJs will quote lower price
View attachment 218498

Than companies making these BPJ.
View attachment 218499View attachment 218500

The main problem I believe arises from the fact that for large procurements. There is a big communication gap between the end Users & MOD that makes the procurement.

This issue could have been resolved by involving the end users during the procurement process. But then again, there comes the problem of hierarchy of decision making & also potential kick-backs.

One potential solution for this issue could be standardization of Plate Carrier design.

(On a different note the Armasen vest seem to be in active use with different SoF groups in the valley)

Agree with what you said. I'm aware of the L1. But the Army must have a minimum standards for specs in order to filter out the one like kavach etc.

 

[Kumaoni]

What lazy? Just 100 to 1000 orders for a battalion.

Yeah but those jokers in the MoD are busy countering their salaries instead of working for the betterment of the jawans.
Only frontline troops have half this kits, and those are just thousands in number

 

[Kumaoni]

Indian infantry in 1965 during a search operation

US infantry in 1968

“There was time when Indian forces were on par with their contemparies. That time has long gone.”

 

[Kumaoni]

@abingdonboy Indian infantry troops in a 2003 Operarion (Sarp Vinash which saw deaths of 50-60 terrorists in a single op and “Tora bora like bunkers”.).

 

[Kumaoni]

RR in 2002

RR In 2023

 

[The Shrike]

Indian army excersise in Rajasthan, 2001View attachment 218319
In 2023:
View attachment 218320

I'm getting the - they are going to break into "Sandese aate hai" song - vibe.

 

[Kumaoni]

I'm getting the - they are going to break into "Sandese aate hai" song - vibe.
View attachment 218563

Forget 90s, they look the exact same as they were in 1971

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

 

[abingdonboy]

I think the volume matters thought.

We can compare the PPE of Indian Army with million dollar economics. But is the volume of soldiers those countries have to equip similar compared to us ? That's a big issue.

To be honest if I was in a position to decide. I would have equiped every Indian soldiers like this.
View attachment 218482
View attachment 218483View attachment 218485
View attachment 218484

I know there can be more optimal setup. But this one just seems realistically achievable.

If this was going to be the FINSAS standard no one would really have much to grumble instead they’ve gone for the most junk of specs. Proof they could do better they just don’t care

 

[Love Charger]

Good morning

 

[RedHood108]

If this was going to be the FINSAS standard no one would really have much to grumble instead they’ve gone for the most junk of specs. Proof they could do better they just don’t care

I think one of the biggest issue with the FINSAS program is this abomination.

SMPP has supplied 1.86 lakh of these to the Army 4 years ago. This looks like the cheapest product availabile with them.

They didn't even showcase this one in the Brazilian Expo held recently.

Their newer products are much better.

On a different note I do find this particular BPJ of SMPP pop up here & there.

Like in these particular photos.

There are many more problems with the FINSAS. Like they should have gone for duel tube NVG or why is there a bayonet on the Ak-203 etc. But the BPJ is what stands out to me.

Anyways FINSAS just seemed to me nothing more than a stunt by the MOD to hastily put together what ever they think accounts as 'modern equipment'. I don't think it will ever be standardized.

 

[abingdonboy]

I think one of the biggest issue with the FINSAS program is this abomination.
View attachment 218689
SMPP has supplied 1.86 lakh of these to the Army 4 years ago. This looks like the cheapest product availabile with them.

They didn't even showcase this one in the Brazilian Expo held recently.

Their newer products are much better.
View attachment 218690

On a different note I do find this particular BPJ of SMPP pop up here & there.
View attachment 218691

Like in these particular photos.
View attachment 218693

There are many more problems with the FINSAS. Like they should have gone for duel tube NVG or why is there a bayonet on the Ak-203 etc. But the BPJ is what stands out to me.

Anyways FINSAS just seemed to me nothing more than a stunt by the MOD to hastily put together what ever they think accounts as 'modern equipment'. I don't think it will ever be standardized.

That BPJ was not developed by SMPP, it was won by them to manufacture. IA’s specs created that abomination and you can see in pictures that it’s already sagging in frontline use. IA could’ve specd the most modern PC but instead this was their design fulfilment.

ample modern PCs in India but this was what the army bought at scale. Competence as usual

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

I think one of the biggest issue with the FINSAS program is this abomination.
View attachment 218689
SMPP has supplied 1.86 lakh of these to the Army 4 years ago. This looks like the cheapest product availabile with them.

They didn't even showcase this one in the Brazilian Expo held recently.

Their newer products are much better.
View attachment 218690

On a different note I do find this particular BPJ of SMPP pop up here & there.
View attachment 218691

Like in these particular photos.
View attachment 218693

There are many more problems with the FINSAS. Like they should have gone for duel tube NVG or why is there a bayonet on the Ak-203 etc. But the BPJ is what stands out to me.

Anyways FINSAS just seemed to me nothing more than a stunt by the MOD to hastily put together what ever they think accounts as 'modern equipment'. I don't think it will ever be standardized.

Biggest problem is that the ones at MoD are like "hey let's go for the cheapest instead of the most optimal option because saving money is our business"

The main thing that needs to be eliminated first is that mentality where the cheapest bidder wins. It's not just for the Infantry or our armed forces, but in general that's how things work here. Requirements generally come in second place.


We should really start putting quality over saving costs, because that's the main thing plaguing the current infantry (or our armed forces in general, except the Navy).


Well MoD will always have my spite no matter what. The ones who work there are really some nasty devils

 

[vampyrbladez]

I think the volume matters thought.

We can compare the PPE of Indian Army with million dollar economics. But is the volume of soldiers those countries have to equip similar compared to us ? That's a big issue.

To be honest if I was in a position to decide. I would have equiped every Indian soldiers like this.
View attachment 218482
View attachment 218483View attachment 218485
View attachment 218484

I know there can be more optimal setup. But this one just seems realistically achievable.

2022

2023

The most modern kit available for the Indian Army appears to be for Ghataks as evidenced by the MP9s.

The rule of thumb that I have observed is that the standard of kit observed with Ghataks starts moving to frontline units after 2-3 years.

I personally believe that F-INSAS is a dead idea since it has been fragmented into too many individual programs that don't work together any more.

The vision has not been upgraded over the years and thus the final result looks like something from 2003-2007 GWOT, around the same time when F-INSAS was conceptualized.

However I also feel that the nonstop whinging and doompilling by a lot of members on this forum is childish at best.

When an amalgam of a military system like India undergoes a fundamental change, it will take time for all the layers to absorb modernization while a true MIC is built and integrated.

So somewhere down the line until the 2030s you can expect to see these things as well.

P.S: Identify the Indian Army troops from the Kashmir Police and BSF troops in the photograph

 

[abingdonboy]

https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1692815314801541479?s=46&t=8QPJecNQmmoeL0BRyMQdjg