MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[nrj]

Nothing sates thirst like the warms salty tears of dalals (except sugarcane juice, and lassi, and thumsup, and... eh fuck it).

Say Goodbye To India’s Super F-16
David AxeContributor
Aerospace & Defense
May 16, 2020 | 03:46pm
Our chances of getting a new kind of F-16 just dramatically shrank. The Indian air force recently signaled it would cancel a tender for foreign-made warplanes.

You mean cancel the tender, so a Govt-to-Govt deal can be executed ?

 

[Bleh]

You mean cancel the tender, so a Govt-to-Govt deal can be executed ?

I have no qualms against G2G piecemeal orders for Rafale or mothballed Mig-29 (atleast it's definitely a jet we built infrastructure for), instead of a massive deal for 108-114 uber-expensive imported jets.

Both Tejas order & Su-30 upgrade will benifit from the freed up funds.

 

[nrj]

I have no qualms against G2G piecemeal orders for Rafale or mothballed Mig-29 (atleast it's definitely a jet we built infrastructure for), instead of a massive deal for 108-114 uber-expensive imported jets.

Both Tejas order & Su-30 upgrade will benifit from the freed up funds.

How much more Russian junk we want to keep? Rafale is not inexpensive either.

How about G2G deal between India-US ?

 

[vampyrbladez]

How much more Russian junk we want to keep? Rafale is not inexpensive either.

How about G2G deal between India-US ?

Buying F 15X , F 18SH instead of Rafale is height of stupidity. Only place where a US-India G2G deal makes sense is for the F 18SH in the 57 naval fighter contest.

 

[WARREN SS]

Only junk in IAF is the 40 year old Mig-21 & older Jaguars. All the Russian tech does not become junk, just because you wish it so.

FUCK your USA. They'll sell us F-21 & sold them F-16.
No commonality in parts or maintenance infra, nor have we used US legacy fighters ever. Not only that, we have to get separate batch of AMRAAM & AIM-9 for those that can't be used on any other Indian jet.

No matter how much you love US fighters, we don't want IAF to become a zoo like Saudi... Mig-29UPG & Rafale will do fine for now.

Without USA our So called Indigenous industry Will Fall flat

Hint GE404

So We Need Yanks To be happy

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I'm pretty sure we are not going to buy Fart-21.
We don't have infrastructure and are we going to give them 19-20 billion $ when we are having financial crunch American government have already closed the joint engine development program under DTTI with india if they can stand up for their interest by not giving away crucial technology we should also stand up and say no to junk fighters.
It's going to be very disappointing for me at least if we buy Junk-21.

 

[Bleh]

How much more Russian junk we want to keep? Rafale is not inexpensive either.

How about G2G deal between India-US ?

Only junk in IAF is the 40 year old Mig-21 & older Jaguars. All the Russian tech does not become junk, just because you wish it so.

No matter how much you love US fighters, we don't want IAF to become a zoo like Saudi. As we never used their legacy fighters we got no commonality in parts or maintenance infra, even have to get separate batch of AMRAAM & AIM-9 for those that can't be used on any other Indian jet. We are talking small orders here, few squadrons at best. It aint worth the investment.

So FUCK your USA. They'll sell us F-21 & sold them F-16.
Mig-29UPG & Rafale will do fine for now.

Without USA our So called Indigenous industry Will Fall flat
Hint GE404
So We Need Yanks To be happy

We'll have enough F404/414 with or without MMRCA. We already kicked them out of it once, and have more or less done it again... Will make no difference. They'll take what money they can earn. Just like before MMRCA2.

Because Eurojet exists.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Without USA our So called Indigenous industry Will Fall flat

Hint GE404

So We Need Yanks To be happy

US ain't gonna stop sales of GE-404 jet engine market is huge in India multiple vendors RR Safran are also interested in the party if US pentagon deny sales to india that will create huge distrust and further collaboration between the two countries.
US didn't stopped the sales after we rejected them in MMRCA 1 it's not Goin to happen in 2020 too.
It's not that simple.

 

[WARREN SS]

We'll have enough F404/414 with or without MMRCA. We already kick them out of MMRCA1 once.

What About Spares Logistics of LCC
What About 83 More LCA MK1A

I just Saying We Need To Make Yankees happy

If Its Not MMRCA it Will Some others Equipment
Yanks Will be happy With you if Satisfy there WAR corporate Firm

 

[WARREN SS]

US ain't gonna stop sales of GE-404 jet engine market is huge in India multiple vendors RR Safran are also interested in the party if US pentagon deny sales to india that will create huge distrust and further collaboration between the two countries.
US didn't stopped the sales after we rejected them in MMRCA 1 it's not Goin to happen in 2020 too.
It's not that simple.

No one Is Saying that I Just

I Said Ignoring USA Lobbies are Impossible we Need To align are policies

 

[Bleh]

No one Is Saying that I Just

I Said Ignoring USA Lobbies are Impossible we Need To align are policies

What About Spares Logistics of LCC
What About 83 More LCA MK1A

I just Saying We Need To Make Yankees happy

If Its Not MMRCA it Will Some others Equipment
Yanks Will be happy With you if Satisfy there WAR corporate Firm

We don't need to do anything. Our imports, from everyone, will decrease in forseeable future. Rest I'm just gonna copy-paste the same thing again.

We'll have enough F404/414 (plus spares) with or without MMRCA. We already kicked them out of it once, and have more or less done it again... Will make no difference. They'll take what money they can earn. Just like before MMRCA2.

Because Eurojet exists.

 

[WARREN SS]

Because Eurojet exists.

That Will Need Design changes It Will stretch induction of LCA And MWF 4-5 years ahead
From there actual date of induction

 

[Assassin 2.0]

No one Is Saying that I Just

I Said Ignoring USA Lobbies are Impossible we Need To align are policies

We need to buy technologies which are truly advanced and exclusive which we will have difficulties in developing indigenously.
If we keep buying junk in the name of diplomacy i would say we are acting like idiots.
India have been in the same place in past too.
In 1990s when india was having tender to buy mirage - 2000 and MIG-29 USA came ahead with some super modified F-20 aircraft which was nothing but updated F-5 they were claiming the same BS at that time to we will push airspace industry in india and bla bla bla but we humbly rejected that aircraft and went on with mirage - 2k and mig-29.

 

[Bleh]

That Will Need Design changes It Will stretch induction of LCA And MWF 4-5 years ahead
From there actual date of induction

Irrelevant. Won't come to that. They competed to win those engine tenders, they're still pitching for EPE partership. They'll take whatever they can manage.

MWF, AMCA, ORCA combined will mean 500 engines minimum, you think they'll pass such sales up... why exactly? Ok. Cool.

 

[WARREN SS]

We need to buy technologies which are truly advanced and exclusive which we will have difficulties in developing indigenously.
If we keep buying junk in the name of diplomacy i would say we are acting like idiots.
India have been in the same place in past too.
In 1990s when india was having tender to buy mirage - 2000 and MIG-29 USA came ahead with some super modified F-20 aircraft which was nothing but updated F-5 they were claiming the same BS at that time to we will push airspace industry in india and bla bla bla but we humbly rejected that aircraft and went on with mirage - 2k and mig-29.

Well Aligning With Powerful nations like USA and Russians is Like Signing Contract With Devil

You need Feed them Something

In Russian case Needless Purchase Or Cold Era Tech Which Substandard

Leasing A Nuclear Submarines

Buying Costly Second hand AC paying Equal to Building a new one

This is a Same case With USA now

We have buy Something Tangible To keep them Align To our Foreign policies

St-oping them To Make Shift

 

[Bleh]

You need Feed them Something

Yes, and order of initial 500 engines & their subsequent replacements is not "feeding something"?.. What's your logic here?

 

[WARREN SS]

Irrelevant. Won't come to that. They competed to win those engine tenders, they're still pitching for EPE partership. They'll take whatever they can manage.

MWF, AMCA, ORCA combined will mean 500 engines minimum, you think they'll pass such sales up... why exactly? Ok. Cool.

Point Is What Geopolitical advantage Europeans Will offer Against our Adversary Specially against Chinese

Rest Copy Paste from above


Aligning With Powerful nations like USA and Russians is Like Signing Contract With Devil

You need Feed them Something

In Russian case Needless Purchase Or Cold Era Tech Which Substandard techs when We have French And Israeli's Options available

Leasing more Nuclear Submarines

Buying Costly Second hand AC paying Equal to Building a new one

This is a Same case With USA now

We have buy Something Tangible To keep them Align To our Foreign policies

St-oping them To Make Shift

One MLU For PAF F-16 Like upgrading it To BLK 60 or Access To UAE ones Can change Dynamics for us


So We Don't Need To Poke "The Eagle"

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Irrelevant. Won't come to that. They competed to win those engine tenders, they're still pitching for EPE partership. They'll take whatever they can manage.

MWF, AMCA, ORCA combined will mean 500 engines minimum, you think they'll pass such sales up... why exactly? Ok. Cool.

Not only that if they back off from tender. US companies will also be sacked from the procurements were we option from france or EU.

Well Aligning With Powerful nations like USA and Russians is Like Signing Contract With Devil

You need Feed them Something

In Russian case Needless Purchase Or Cold Era Tech Which Substandard

Leasing A Nuclear Submarines

Buying Costly Second hand AC paying Equal to Building a new one

This is a Same case With USA now

We have buy Something Tangible To keep them Align To our Foreign policies

St-oping them To Make Shift

India also have multiple leverages at different levels just see what happened with Russia
They started to blackmail india in ins Vikramaditya case and were playing with adversary when india did nuclear tests what happened india increased it's options for defence equipment. Slowly and steadily started procuring equipments from different entities.

We all were thinking that after S-400 purchase this will happen that will happen nothing happened.
India have singed multiple agreements with USA if they will back out in sales after singing deals how india will trust them in case of conflict.
Btw heck US even provide support to Pakistani equipments for which they singed agreements.

 

[WARREN SS]

Not only that if they back off from tender. US companies will also be sacked from the procurements were we option from france or EU.

India also have multiple leverages at different levels just see what happened with Russia
They started to blackmail india in ins vikrant case and were playing with adversary when india did nuclear tests what happened india increased it's options for defence equipment.

We all were thinking that after S-400 purchase this will happen that will happen nothing happened.
India have singed multiple agreements with USA if they will back out in sales after singing deals how india will trust them in case of conflict.
Btw heck US even provide support to Pakistani equipments for which they singed agreements.

USA is More Important To For us than Russians (We have keep them Too) against Chinese

Providing them minimum Support is different from Giving them Weapons that can change Geopolitical strategy

500 AMRAAM's are already a Major threat


Neither I am saying that USA Will Do anything after MMRCA 2.0

US Firms are already knew that Rafale was Top priority for india

But Reality is USA Foreign Policy are Runs on two Principle

Sell oil or Sell weapons

Indian Establishment has Very difficult Task ahead after Post corona

If USA goes against Chinese What Will be our Move
'
Russians Will Align With Chinese its there Geopolitics

Covid-19 May Start another Cold war

And India will be Sandwiched btw Two Fronts

 

[nrj]

Only junk in IAF is the 40 year old Mig-21 & older Jaguars. All the Russian tech does not become junk, just because you wish it so.

No matter how much you love US fighters, we don't want IAF to become a zoo like Saudi. As we never used their legacy fighters we got no commonality in parts or maintenance infra, even have to get separate batch of AMRAAM & AIM-9 for those that can't be used on any other Indian jet. We are talking small orders here, few squadrons at best. It aint worth the investment.

So FUCK your USA. They'll sell us F-21 & sold them F-16.
Mig-29UPG & Rafale will do fine for now.

Calm down dude. Just saying that bilateral relations are very good right now. And long tenders are not in fashion. You never know what bonhomie can leave us with. And if Russian tech was so good, it'd have pushed out Rafale in competition.