MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[Sridhar_TN]

we need to remember that DRDO and Russian OEM are competitor

Well, I guess , it’s livefistdefences word VS harshvardhan Thakur then...

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I highly doubt su 30 has rwr

SU-30 have two different types of RWR system one is drdo build Tarang and other one is Russian.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Well, I guess , it’s livefistdefences word VS harshvardhan Thakur then...

Livefist defence haven't disclosed the name of the officials and didn't even have official statements. Hence its one of the many non useful article by livefist.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

SU-30 have two different types of RWR system one is drdo build Tarang and other one is Russian.

Hope that’s the case..and they are effective. And hope they did detect those amraams launched at them.

 

[WARREN SS]

Need Of Rafale for IAF must Even If We have cancel S-400 And IAC-3
both are Needless

 

[IndianHawk]

Whoa. Dude. MAWS is very critical for fighter jets. What are you saying. I highly doubt su 30 has rwr. Why else did it need ground control to instruct it of amraam launches.

What do you mean jamming pods are coming? Coming from where? It was part of the super sukhoi program. AESA, jamming, rwr, maws etc.

That program has not even started yet.

H v thakur (ex IAF pilot) said that maws is more useful against ground launched surface to air missiles . That's why helicopter have them at priority.
Also low flying jets need them more.

Su30 has Indian made 6 channels rwr. It's now being turned digital .even lca has it so does mig29 .

Su30 has been getting upgrades continuously regardless of any declared program.

Bramhos Astra and ngram have been integrated with su30 . Indian irst and maws are under development.

Pods are available from russia Israel and dare pods.
Hbj pod is also under development . And one more unnammed pad is under development.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Hope that’s the case..and they are effective. And hope they did detect those amraams launched at them.

Their is no actual information on 27feb episode thing but all i know is a package with so many aircrafts failed to shoot down a blind aircraft who's Jamming system doesn't work doesn't have RWR it seems highly unlikely.
Till the time SU-35 came many experts believed that SU-30MKI was most advanced jet in su-30 series.

 

[nrj]

Need Of Rafale for IAF must Even If We have cancel S-400 And IAC-3
both are Needless

Let's not prioritize our needs that way. It doesn't have to be a trade-off. IACs are essential; with Chinese navy building consistently, we very well do need our way of power projection. Looking at how Chinese are pushing land borders, not sure if they'll any lenient on the seas either.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Their is no actual information on 27feb episode thing but all i know is a package with so many aircrafts failed to shoot down a build aircraft who's Jamming system doesn't work doesn't have RWR it seems highly unlikely.
Till the time SU-35 came many experts believed that SU-30MKI was most advanced jet in su-30 series.

Again, these missiles were fired at dmax. Wasting their energy is easy at that point with defensive maneuvres. Which is exactly what the sukhois did after being instructed by ground control. Even a mig 21 would follow the same procedure if being shot at over that long a distance. Those missiles can be rendered useless at that range.


The lingering question is, why the sukhoi didn’t Detect first and fire. Of course, the ratio of paf fighters were a lot. And practically not possible for the sukhoi to take them head on. But when the iAf chief says the presence of rafale, would have turned the tables....or when he says if India had the rafale , the paf wouldn’t even come close...it makes you think.

Why would the iAf chief say something like that? Worse...admit something like that

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Again, these missiles were fired at dmax. Wasting their energy is easy at that point with defensive maneuvres. Which is exactly what the sukhois did after being instructed by ground control. Even a mig 21 would follow the same procedure if being shot at over that long a distance. Those missiles can be rendered useless at that range.


The lingering question is, why the sukhoi didn’t Detect first and fire. Of course, the ratio of paf fighters were a lot. And practically not possible for the sukhoi to take them head on. But when the iAf chief says the presence of rafale, would have turned the tables....or when he says if India had the rafale , the paf wouldn’t even come close...it makes you think.

24 VS 5
In which 2 were 1970s i don't think it would be very strategic to just rush and fall into enemy trap and get yourself killed and second you don't have the info the radar of SU-30 acts like mini awacs it's one of the most powerful pesa radar.
Anyway altitude issue F-16 had altitude advantage. R-77 have lesser range than AIM-120-C5 firing allowance issue remember air commander of replaced after this conflict.
With upcoming Astra missile SU-30 will regain bvrm edge.
If taking down SU-30 mki was so easy why Pakistan didn't moved ahead and blasted the military compound? They obviously targeted the compound but mysteriously bomb failed. This could be because of SU-30 jamming system.
And you don't have access to classified files hence you will never know what tactics SU-30 applied.


Anyway let's don't go off topic with ill mature assumptions. Which don't have factual backing

 

[WARREN SS]

Let's not prioritize our needs that way. It doesn't have to be a trade-off. IACs are essential; with Chinese navy building consistently, we very well do need our way of power projection. Looking at how Chinese are pushing land borders, not sure if they'll any lenient on the seas either.

We already Have Vikrant For that It already

SSN's are better way to deal With CBG

Unlike PLAAF & PLAAN in not direct threat To Indian army but PLAAF is

Rafale is Some how makes parity With Jaguars being Legacy fighters now
I didn't said it If We had Enough Deep Strike fighters like Mirage-2000 Mk2 in our inventory

We need Full fill Immediate Need of Mig-23 And Mig-27

Of Replacing multi-role fighters

36 More Rafale's is Essential And You Will See IAF Will Destroy Navy's IAC-3 Plan
Which At this Stage not really required Due to Lag in Economy

 

[Sridhar_TN]

24 VS 5
In which 2 were 1970s i don't it would be very strategic to just rush and fall into enemy trap and get yourself killed and second you don't have the info the radar of SU-30 acts like mini awacs it's one of the most powerful pesa radar.
Anyway altitude issue F-16 had altitude advantage. R-77 have lesser range than AIM-120-C5 firing allowance issue remember air commander of replaced after this conflict.
With upcoming Astra missile SU-30 will regain bvrm edge.
If taking down SU-30 mki was so easy why Pakistan didn't moved ahead and blasted the military compound? They obviously targeted the compound but mysteriously bomb failed. This could be because of SU-30 jamming system.
And you don't have access to classified files hence you will never know what tactics SU-30 applied.

We’re digressing. No ones saying taking down su30 was easy. It never was taken down in the first place. Also this magical mini awacs is bs. Everyone accepts that. And the paf could not keep up with the migs on their tails or the mirages approaching as well. Why are we digressing to these topics again. The fact is the kept the su30 at bay by firing a bunch of missiles at dmax. That’s all.

We need to understand and accept that the su 30’s capability will not match up to a recently upgraded gen4 or gen4.5 aircraft. That is an admission by the iAf chief.

Either we upgrade the sukhoi to super sukhoi, or buy rafales. That’s all. We are not doing either. No matter how much self assurance we give ourselves.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

We’re digressing. No ones saying taking down su30 was easy. It never was taken down in the first place.

We need to understand and accept that the su 30’s capability will not match up to a recently upgraded gen4 or gen4.5 aircraft. That is an admission by the iAf chief.

Either we upgrade the sukhoi to super sukhoi, or buy rafales. That’s all. We are not doing either. No matter how much self assurance we give ourselves.

Sometimes IAF chief says SU-30 is fabulous aircraft.
but i don't think they were idiot's to induct 270 aircrafts which they think were useless. If you have some personal bias against SU-30 i can't help you but non the less SU-30 will remain India's most front line jet for a decade.

SU-30 remains one of the most deadliest air superiority aircraft especially when it's armed with Bhramos missile. There are many things which SU-30 can do and rafale can't.
Super Sukhoi update will happen but it will take it's own time SU-30 are not super old production started after 2002.

Anyway let's stick to the topic.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Sometimes IAF chief says SU-30 is fabulous aircraft.
but i don't think they were idiot's to induct 270 aircrafts which they think were useless. If you personal bias against SU-30 i can't help you but non the less SU-30 will remain India's most front line jet for a decade.

Non the less SU-30 remains one of the most deadliest air superiority aircraft especially when it's armed with Bhramos missile. There are many things which SU-30 can do and rafale can't.
Super Sukhoi update will happen but it will take it's own time SU-30 are not super old they production started after 2002.

Anyway let's stick to the topic.

The su30s were inducted in early 2000s. The iAf chief is not an idiot to say something like that about su 30s capability.

I don’t have a personal bias against su30. I’m being realistic. Grow up. What do you mean deadliest air superiority aircraft with brahmos? Brahmos is for ground attack. Not air superiority.

Super sukhoi will take its own time. It’s been taking its own time for the past 6 years. We keep digging this hole.

Look. I’m not here to deflate anyone’s feeling of self security. If we can’t accept facts about our shortcomings... thats ok. We ‘ll face the music. That’s all.

 

[IndianHawk]

Again, these missiles were fired at dmax. Wasting their energy is easy at that point with defensive maneuvres. Which is exactly what the sukhois did after being instructed by ground control. Even a mig 21 would follow the same procedure if being shot at over that long a distance. Those missiles can be rendered useless at that range.


The lingering question is, why the sukhoi didn’t Detect first and fire. Of course, the ratio of paf fighters were a lot. And practically not possible for the sukhoi to take them head on. But when the iAf chief says the presence of rafale, would have turned the tables....or when he says if India had the rafale , the paf wouldn’t even come close...it makes you think.

Why would the iAf chief say something like that? Worse...admit something like that

Su30 did detect those missiles . It was instructed by ground station because that's how networked warfare works. If there was no ground instructions su30 would act on their own. Either manuver or jamm the incoming missile.

Regarding rafale and IAF statement. Rafale with meteor would have not allowed paf to feel safe even at 100 km away. Paf will have to remain 150-200 km away from rafale to feel safe .

But that's mostly meteor capability . Hell even astar mk2 with dual pulse or similar derby ER will force paf to stay 150 km away from lca . Aim120 will be totally useless in these situations.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Su30 did detect those missiles . It was instructed by ground station because that's how networked warfare works. If there was no ground instructions su30 would act on their own. Either manuver or jamm the incoming missile.

Regarding rafale and IAF statement. Rafale with meteor would have not allowed paf to feel safe even at 100 km away. Paf will have to remain 150-200 km away from rafale to feel safe .

But that's mostly meteor capability . Hell even astar mk2 with dual pulse or similar derby ER will force paf to stay 150 km away from lca . Aim120 will be totally useless in these situations.

Good to know. So when will Astra mk2 be inducted. Again, all im hearing is..’will’ and ‘should’. In the future tense. Let’s see when they get inducted and perform as they are touted to be.

 

[WARREN SS]

What is with you man. The su30s were inducted in early 2000s. The iAf chief is not an idiot to say something like that about su 30s capability.

I don’t have a personal bias against su30. I’m being realistic. Grow up. What do you mean deadliest air superiority aircraft with brahmos? Brahmos is for ground attack. Not air superiority.

Super sukhoi will take its own time. It’s been taking its own time for the past 6 years. We keep digging this hole.

Look. I’m not here to deflate anyone’s feeling of self security. If we can’t accept facts about our shortcomings... thats ok. We ‘ll face the music. That’s all.

you are right Su-30 Need Of MLU that Will cost around 5-6 billion $ Need of AESA is Must

2 Squadrons are Needed Lets hope We Make Follow Orders of 36 More

 

[IndianHawk]

Good to know. So when will Astra mk2 be inducted. Again, all im hearing is..’will’ and ‘should’. In the future tense. Let’s see when they get inducted and perform as they are touted to be.

Astra mk1 itself outranges paki f16 aim120c5/c7. And it's already integrated with su30 . So game has already changed.

Astra mk2 dusl pulse is supposed to undergo testing this year itself. It will use same dual motor already used on ngram. Should be ready in 2 years.

Lca mk1a will get derby ER directly as it is already mated with elta 2052 aesa radar . So lca mk1a should come with derby ER as standard weapon.

Su30 could also see derby ER integrated if Astra mk2 is delayed.

 

[nrj]

You Will See IAF Will Destroy Navy's IAC-3 Plan

You could be very right there. But we still need meaningful carriers though

 

[IndianHawk]

Let's not prioritize our needs that way. It doesn't have to be a trade-off. IACs are essential; with Chinese navy building consistently, we very well do need our way of power projection. Looking at how Chinese are pushing land borders, not sure if they'll any lenient on the seas either

China has halted their carrier planes for now. Even USA is looking to retire two carriers early and to go for distributed lethality . Hypersonic missile are real threat now to large carriers and there is no realistic defense against them as of now.

Us navy studies have shown that even a bramhos solvo is impossible to defense against for a large sized Target.