MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[bose]

Exactly people here saying tejas won't do the job must understand that tejas will fit it's job very well that is:-

Flying defensive caps
Replacing the old mig-21
Providing a solid groundwork for our aerospace industry and help us in future projects.

India's posture towards china will remain defensive in the coming decade while our military will have sufficient advantage over pakistan throughout the decade.

So tejas is more than enough for our current needs after that we can concentrate on AMCA and other future platforms.

IAF need an aircraft that can take Chinese J20 head on ....

MWF is another 5 - 6 years out from production line ...

AMCA is another 8 - 10 years out from production line ...

 

[Defcon 1]

No that capacity already exists... We made 12 Su-30 per year until now, plus Hawk-i, plus seperate jigs for trainer Tejas.

Some modifications are required, but that will require orders.

50-60 jet capacity exists? What is the production capacity of hawk-i with HAL? Also, when did tejas trainer production capacity became separate from single seater?

 

[abhay rajput]

IAF need an aircraft that can take Chinese J20 head on ....

MWF is another 5 - 6 years out from production line ...

AMCA is another 8 - 10 years out from production line ...

Rafale are enough for j20. The numbers aren't. We need 36 Rafale more on Chinese borders .even if MWF come it will still not match rafale in any way. Our best plane will be rafale for years to come until amca became operational.

 

[Knowitall]

IAF need an aircraft that can take Chinese J20 head on ....

MWF is another 5 - 6 years out from production line ...

AMCA is another 8 - 10 years out from production line ...

Ok so what is wrong in that I ask you.

The MMRCA fiasco is a very good example of what we need and what we want.

Countries around the globe plan their defense expenditure by spending on thing they consider a necessity a capability that they must have.

While rafale is an excellent aircraft and if we have the money worth buying but we must understand our present constraints.

India is not planning to invade china or even pakistan any time soon china on the other hand will not Invade India in the next decade their main focus is USA they want to achieve economic parity with USA get the same amount if not more influence in Africa and other countries they won't risk a war with India because of this they have a proper national policy which they will follow as they have for decades.

Pakistan is no position to Invade us we will also be concentrating on our economy for a long time to come.

Plus the main thing Indian planners are looking at things with an eye on the future simply put by the time india becomes an economic powerhouse we also want our defense industry to be Indigenous so that we don't have to depend on anyone when we start a war on our own terms.

And when you take that into consideration tejas and AMCA seem like a good idea and a step in the right direction.

 

[Bleh]

50-60 jet capacity exists? What is the production capacity of hawk-i with HAL? Also, when did tejas trainer production capacity became separate from single seater?

Oh no not 50-60. Between 30 to 35. Upto 40 if the trainer (i remember 8) line is operational.

There were a few news and tweets made, by HVT & HAL. You will find them somewhere in LCA Tejas thread. I don't think all of the jigs are different but at least some part of it are apparently separate.
Edit: Found it.

LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Doubling range to 200 km, @porky_kicker @Chinmoy is this for Astra Mark2? Also, the present Banshee target drone is only 3g capable & is completely subsonic, while Abhyas is 2g & reached Mach 0.5 (Lakhsya-2 reach Mach 0.7)... unlike older Ulka target drone that could do Mach 1.5! Are tests...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[bose]

Rafale are enough for j20. The numbers aren't. We need 36 Rafale more on Chinese borders .even if MWF come it will still not match rafale in any way. Our best plane will be rafale for years to come until amca became operational.

That is my argument is 36 Rafale is not enough for both China & Pakistan ...

IAF need atleast 36 or 2 squadron of Rafale for China only ... There will also be 2 - 3 squadron of SU 30 MKI upgraded ...

My take MMRCA 2.0 will not get cancelled rather it will be staggered with 36 more Rafale and rest could be MIG - 35s a cheaper options that too with comonality with Mig - 29s...

 

[bose]

Ok so what is wrong in that I ask you.

The MMRCA fiasco is a very good example of what we need and what we want.

Countries around the globe plan their defense expenditure by spending on thing they consider a necessity a capability that they must have.

While rafale is an excellent aircraft and if we have the money worth buying but we must understand our present constraints.

India is not planning to invade china or even pakistan any time soon china on the other hand will not Invade India in the next decade their main focus is USA they want to achieve economic parity with USA get the same amount if not more influence in Africa and other countries they won't risk a war with India because of this they have a proper national policy which they will follow as they have for decades.

Pakistan is no position to Invade us we will also be concentrating on our economy for a long time to come.

Plus the main thing Indian planners are looking at things with an eye on the future simply put by the time india becomes an economic powerhouse we also want our defense industry to be Indigenous so that we don't have to depend on anyone when we start a war on our own terms.

And when you take that into consideration tejas and AMCA seem like a good idea and a step in the right direction.

You are so sure China will not attack India ? The same China was singing Hindi - Chini bhai bhai in 1962 ... what did they do ?

What will you do if Pakistan does another Phulwama or Uri ?

 

[BangaliBabu]

AMCA is another 8 - 10 years out from production line ...

will it even have have a production line? I have my doubts coz IAF will see this AMCA as more of a specialized recce/air-superiority/SEAD/DEAD asset than a full-fledged frontline fighter. Max. 100 pieces spread out over 7-10 years (at current production pace). Not even HAL but a specialized team the likes of the B-2 development team might handle it........

 

[bose]

will it even have have a production line? I have my doubts coz IAF will see this AMCA as more of a specialized recce/air-superiority/SEAD/DEAD asset than a full-fledged frontline fighter. Max. 100 pieces spread out over 7-10 years (at current production pace). Not even HAL but a specialized team the likes of the B-2 development team might handle it........

It was most optimistic expectation ... We are late by 15 years due to congressi thugs ...

 

[ashdoc]

It was most optimistic expectation ... We are late by 15 years due to congressi thugs ...

The worst defence minister ever: AK Antony's tenure, the longest for a defence minister, has seen scams, crises, unpreparedness

AK Antony missed an opportunity to transform the armed forces in an era of peace. His tenure, the longest for a defence minister, has seen scams, crises, unpreparedness.

www.indiatoday.in

Yeah A K Antony was worst defence minister.

 

[Knowitall]

You are so sure China will not attack India ? The same China was singing Hindi - Chini bhai bhai in 1962 ... what did they do ?

What will you do if Pakistan does another Phulwama or Uri ?

1962 was because of nehru and his policies.

See tejas may tale 5-6 years as you said but rafale will also take the same around of time by the time we sign the contract and start building the aircraft it will pretty much take the same amount of time.

If we attack pakistan due to a terrorist attack and say china joins we won't be on the offense against china we will be holding them there.

For that tejas is enough.

 

[nrj]

We need more multi role fighters, so much that we do also need indigenous engine to power it.

Anyone offering ToT on engines in 2.0 ? Can we pick Typhoon or Gripen for cheap now ?

 

[Bajirao]

The worst defence minister ever: AK Antony's tenure, the longest for a defence minister, has seen scams, crises, unpreparedness

AK Antony missed an opportunity to transform the armed forces in an era of peace. His tenure, the longest for a defence minister, has seen scams, crises, unpreparedness.

www.indiatoday.in

Yeah A K Antony was worst defence minister.

The worst defence minister ever: AK Antony's tenure, the longest for a defence minister, has seen scams, crises, unpreparedness

AK Antony missed an opportunity to transform the armed forces in an era of peace. His tenure, the longest for a defence minister, has seen scams, crises, unpreparedness.

www.indiatoday.in

Yeah A K Antony was worst defence minister.

it's tough competetion between antony and menon and what a co-incident both from same state..

 

[captscooby81]

No Engine tech in offer by anyone in MMRCA 2.0 , Saffran is still has to execute its offset part of the first 36 rafales contract . They were supposed to invest in development of Kaveri but i think they backed out . Gripen don't have the engine of their own its again american .which we are already getting from GE directly for LCA

We need more multi role fighters, so much that we do also need indigenous engine to power it.

Anyone offering ToT on engines in 2.0 ? Can we pick Typhoon or Gripen for cheap now ?

 

[captscooby81]

I think with today's announcement of defence import restrictions MMRCA 2.0 is dead for sure . there is only one way ahead

36 more rafales a follow on order placed by 2022 once the economy recovers a bit from slowdown

or with new FDI increase upto 74 % Dassault can increase its stake in DRAL and start manufacturing Rafales here .

We can say Rafale is expensive and can't afford all . In the ocean of Russian tech we have we badly need one good western tech platform

Classic example We Used Mirage2k to bomb kargil heights and what did we used 20 years later to bomb balakote ? Again Mirage2k . Shows the level of confidence IAF has on this one machine

Rafale will exactly play that role for IAF in future conflicts that one silver bullet

We can have 400 Tejas bla bla it can't replace Rafale any day for the missions Rafale will under take .

 

[bose]

No Engine tech in offer by anyone in MMRCA 2.0 , Saffran is still has to execute its offset part of the first 36 rafales contract . They were supposed to invest in development of Kaveri but i think they backed out . Gripen don't have the engine of their own its again american .which we are already getting from GE directly for LCA

We should explore if we can work with Roles Royce for engine development ...

 

[vampyrbladez]

I think with today's announcement of defence import restrictions MMRCA 2.0 is dead for sure . there is only one way ahead

36 more rafales a follow on order placed by 2022 once the economy recovers a bit from slowdown

or with new FDI increase upto 74 % Dassault can increase its stake in DRAL and start manufacturing Rafales here .

We can say Rafale is expensive and can't afford all . In the ocean of Russian tech we have we badly need one good western tech platform

Classic example We Used Mirage2k to bomb kargil heights and what did we used 20 years later to bomb balakote ? Again Mirage2k . Shows the level of confidence IAF has on this one machine

Rafale will exactly play that role for IAF in future conflicts that one silver bullet

We can have 400 Tejas bla bla it can't replace Rafale any day for the missions Rafale will under take .

Minimum 110 Rafale with 11 aircraft bought per year or 2 more tranches of 36 Rafale(s) will be bought (36 + 36 + 36) .

 

[nrj]

What are the chances that american lobby rides on bonhomie between country leaders and Boeings/Lockheeds surprise the fighter jet acquisition party ?

Modi has already demonstrated that he can execute govt-govt deal and suppress the detractors in way of good business. That's a break from decades of babu culture. Indo-US ties are much closer than people realize.

Also this Indo-Pacific paper talks, China OBOR and moving away from Nato can push more permanent presence of American goods in Indian inventory. India has already ratified many of the controversial american demands in last 15yrs. Some members here would remember debate around inspection and logistics requirements from US side. Washington is slowly building more leverages against India, some could come handy. No better time to cripple european manufacturers than 2020, I doubt US counterparts will miss that chance. We should negotiate best end to that deal if so comes up.

 

[captscooby81]

F-35 ? I don't see it will happen . May be if Trump gets re elected and returns to oval office . There is a possibility . Issues with F-35 will be Integrating it with S-400 american fighter jet integrated to Russian Air defence

What are the chances that american lobby rides on bonhomie between country leaders and Boeings/Lockheeds surprise the fighter jet acquisition party ?

Modi has already demonstrated that he can execute govt-govt deal and suppress the detractors in way of good business. That's a break from decades of babu culture. Indo-US ties are much closer than people realize.

Also this Indo-Pacific paper talks, China OBOR and moving away from Nato can push more permanent presence of American goods in Indian inventory. India has already ratified many of the controversial american demands in last 15yrs. Some members here would remember debate around inspection and logistics requirements from US side. Washington is slowly building more leverages against India, some could come handy. No better time to cripple european manufacturers than 2020, I doubt US counterparts will miss that chance. We should negotiate best end to that deal if so comes up.

 

[abhay rajput]

What are the chances that american lobby rides on bonhomie between country leaders and Boeings/Lockheeds surprise the fighter jet acquisition party ?

Modi has already demonstrated that he can execute govt-govt deal and suppress the detractors in way of good business. That's a break from decades of babu culture. Indo-US ties are much closer than people realize.

Also this Indo-Pacific paper talks, China OBOR and moving away from Nato can push more permanent presence of American goods in Indian inventory. India has already ratified many of the controversial american demands in last 15yrs. Some members here would remember debate around inspection and logistics requirements from US side. Washington is slowly building more leverages against India, some could come handy. No better time to cripple european manufacturers than 2020, I doubt US counterparts will miss that chance. We should negotiate best end to that deal if so comes up.

Sir ji have you forgotten caatsa restrictions..? Or have you forgotten that there USCIRF words about our home minister, ? You are right about inspection aspect. There are a lot of us contractor roaming around naval/air bases. They have pretty good leverage over India now to blackmail us a little bit. But the problem is that USA will never give us engine tech. They withdraw from dtti for this reason. I think french/UK are our best shot regarding engine tot . I would vote for UK.

But the bigger problem is can we afford western weapons in numbers for our both neighbours. ? We need a mix of cheap (indigenous/Russian) and quality (western/USA) weapons.