LCA Tejas vs JF-17 Thunder

[Ray]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

I agree to and extent about post 2000 era , but with many tech advancements now there are less and less dogfights , its who has better radar , data linking , navigation , radar avoidance , turning radii ,better BVR weapons who wins.

Also coming back to sabers and gnats from what i have read in all wars PAF has had much higher kill ratio than IAF , its only in kargill that BVR capable Mirage2k and Mig29 had upper hand over PAF , so please enlighten me if i am missing anything here .

IAF defeated PAF in 1965 War

IAF defeated PAF in 1965 War � Indian Defence Review

Let us consider the air-to-air kills. These need further subdivision i.e., the loss of strike aircraft and loss of pure air defence aircraft. No doubt both these types can engage in air combat albeit with varying degree of maneuverability. But a strike aircraft with heavy configuration with armament load and fuel tanks is no match for a similar fighter in air defence configuration. Of the total air to air losses, IAF's losses were 18 aircraft in strike role and 4 in air defence role. This is indicative of greater offensive forays by the IAF compared to the PAF. Even in pure air-to-air battle, the score is even, despite PAF's advantage of fighting over its own territory, with air-to-air missiles and better radar cover and control.

It would be worth the while to read
IAF defeated PAF in 1965 War � Indian Defence Review

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

IAF defeated PAF in 1965 War
It would be worth the while to read
IAF defeated PAF in 1965 War � Indian Defence Review

Thanks for sharing , any comments about current scenario of PAF vs IAF , PLAF vs IAF fighters considering long range radar and BVR oriented battles and how LCA mk1 stack up here.

 

[jouni]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

Can you even call that air war? In the last war FiAF shot down over 1600 Soviet planes. You have lost more planes in peacetime accidents than war?

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

self delete

 

[Ray]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

Thanks for sharing , any comments about current scenario of PAF vs IAF , PLAF vs IAF fighters considering long range radar and BVR oriented battles and how LCA mk1 stack up here.

Can't say.

We are down in squadrons.

Can you even call that air war? In the last war FiAF shot down over 1600 Soviet planes. You have lost more planes in peacetime accidents than war?

No. We were playing video games.

How long was the last war? You just shot 1600 over such a long war? Very poor effort I must say.

In peacetime we fly and not grounded like your PIAF.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

Disagree , mk1 has inferior radar , no BVR missile capability , lesser turning radius , lesser range / cr if compared to jf17.
Thats why mk2 is needed asap with aesa and better range/cr , turning radii.

disagree

Tejas has BVR capability .........

the BVR capability is NOT certified YET due to Radome problem

there is a difference between not having & not certified

also if radar range is the only issue holding back the induction and BVR in actula combat

then a workaroud is there

put them in swarm group formation - mix fleet with Su30 MKI

order more Su30 MKi - Su30 for 4 tejas

pair up 4 Tejas with 1 Su30 - Use Su30MKI radar to illuminatte targets and using data links fire off missiles BVR with 130+km range off Tejas

 

[Kharavela]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

i disagree a single Rafale can lock in multiple targets and engage / kill 4-5 tejas even before they detect it , it radar and weapons stack is far superiors along with high range speed , turning radii.

Sir, you might have forgotten that one Rafale have limited (12) hard points to carry AAM, whereas LCA has 7 hard points. So 4 LCA will carry 28 AAMs versus 12 AAMs of 1 Rafale.

Moreover, 90% surface area of LCA is made up of composite materials. Thus LCA is hard to detect. By the time Rafale radar detects LCA, it would be staring at the R-73 released by 4 LCA.

Hence 1 Rafale doesn't stand any chance against 4 LCA.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

disagree

Tejas has BVR capability .........

the BVR capability is NOT certified YET due to Radome problem

there is a difference between not having & not certified

also if radar range is the only issue holding back the induction and BVR in actula combat

then a workaroud is there

put them in swarm group formation - mix fleet with Su30 MKI

order more Su30 MKi - Su30 for 4 tejas

pair up 4 Tejas with 1 Su30 - Use Su30MKI radar to illuminatte targets and using data links fire off missiles BVR with 130+km range off Tejas

Plane which has turning radius problem , very less maneuverability is useless even in such formations and it sucks on range too , ada has made this light combat aircraft heavier beyond imagination with this useless delta wing design

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

Sir, you might have forgotten that one Rafale have limited (12) hard points to carry AAM, whereas LCA has 7 hard points. So 4 LCA will carry 28 AAMs versus 12 AAMs of 1 Rafale.

Moreover, 90% surface area of LCA is made up of composite materials. Thus LCA is hard to detect. By the time Rafale radar detects LCA, it would be staring at the R-73 released by 4 LCA.

Hence 1 Rafale doesn't stand any chance against 4 LCA.

where are the numbers , by the time tejas is mass produced 2025 this will be completely obsolete

 

[Kharavela]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

where are the numbers , by the time tejas is mass produced 2025 this will be completely obsolete

No Sir, you are misinformed. HAL is ready with production line for 16 LCA per year. Series production has started & SP1 is done, SP2 is currently under construction. 4 SP aircrafts would be delivered to IAF in IOC-1 configuration for initial test purposes before FOC.

I strongly believe (can't reveal my sources) #ModiSarkar will go for another production line (either with private players or HAL) doubling the numbers.

Just wait & watch.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

No Sir, you are misinformed. HAL is ready with production line for 16 LCA per year. Series production has started & SP1 is done, SP2 is currently under construction. 4 SP aircrafts would be delivered to IAF in IOC-1 configuration for initial test purposes before FOC.

I strongly believe (can't reveal my sources) #ModiSarkar will go for another production line (either with private players or HAL) doubling the numbers.

Just wait & watch.

hope this is true :thumb:

 

[rvjpheonix]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

You need to read about tejas before saying such stuff. Type less read more on forums like this bharat rakshak and you will come to know about different factors of maneuverability like ITR and STR at different altitudes .Let me just say for now that the low wing loading of the tejas is better for high altitude fights and has a better ITR thanks to itrs large wing which I suppose will be more crucial in futerure dogfights with off boresight missiles.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

You need to read about tejas before saying such stuff. Type less read more on forums like this bharat rakshak and you will come to know about different factors of maneuverability like ITR and STR at different altitudes .Let me just say for now that the low wing loading of the tejas is better for high altitude fights and has a better ITR thanks to itrs large wing which I suppose will be more crucial in futerure dogfights with off boresight missiles.

sir there must be good reasons if veterans like air marshal naik calling tejas mig 21++ at best ?

 

[rvjpheonix]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

that was at IOC . The media took onlly part of what he said to potray it in a bad image. if i remember correctly the entirte statement was something to the tune rthat at present its capabilities are limited but in the future at FoC it will be a good bird.
Anyways since you are comparing it to the jf 17 you musst know that the tejas as far as technologies involved is way ahead. Let it be the RSS system or the fly by wire or the mission computers or the composite, blending of wings, etc. Its technology allows us to build a far better bird in future.
Also do you know that the IAF primarily bought the mirages as a counter to PAF's f 16. Our main test pilot has himself said that the tejas exceeds the mirage in crucial parameters. Couple thast with better fire control system electronic warfare package and much harder to detect, the tejas can be effectively used to counter the f 16's with the correct tactics. If the IAF was confident about countering f 16s with mirages back then isnt it better now when our lowest rung fighter is comparable to their best f solahs:thumb:
ALso no sir for me.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

that was at IOC . The media took onlly part of what he said to potray it in a bad image. if i remember correctly the entirte statement was something to the tune rthat at present its capabilities are limited but in the future at FoC it will be a good bird.
Anyways since you are comparing it to the jf 17 you musst know that the tejas as far as technologies involved is way ahead. Let it be the RSS system or the fly by wire or the mission computers or the composite, blending of wings, etc. Its technology allows us to build a far better bird in future.
Also do you know that the IAF primarily bought the mirages as a counter to PAF's f 16. Our main test pilot has himself said that the tejas exceeds the mirage in crucial parameters. Couple thast with better fire control system electronic warfare package and much harder to detect, the tejas can be effectively used to counter the f 16's with the correct tactics. If the IAF was confident about countering f 16s with mirages back then isnt it better now when our lowest rung fighter is comparable to their best f solahs:thumb:
ALso no sir for me.

at end of day its a flying bird with flying problem put all gizmos on it if it cant turn has low thrust and speed its of no use

 

[Kharavela]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

at end of day its a flying bird with flying problem put all gizmos on it if it cant turn has low thrust and speed its of no use

If MIG-21s purchased in 60's can be upgraded & used till today, if Mirage 2000-5 are upgraded to remain relevant; then why the same approach can't be used for LCA ?

 

[sgarg]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

Disagree , mk1 has inferior radar , no BVR missile capability , lesser turning radius , lesser range / cr if compared to jf17.
Thats why mk2 is needed asap with aesa and better range/cr , turning radii.

You should compare the aircrafts after FOC. Let IAF or ADA publish the parameters of FOC standard LCA Tejas. Then you can compare it with the latest JF-17.

LCA Tejas is a work in progress right now, only a definitive version should be used for comparison.

If you want to compare IOC-2 version with JF-17, you can create a table of technical parameters and put that in your post rather than giving subjective statements.

 

[sgarg]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

If MIG-21s purchased in 60's can be upgraded & used till today, if Mirage 2000-5 are upgraded to remain relevant; then why the same approach can't be used for LCA ?

LCA is a very good bomb truck like Mirage 2000. It is an excellent platform for precision bombing. This is where it will be used ultimately in my opinion.

India has plenty of air defence and air superiority platforms. It is not necessary to use LCA Tejas for that role.

However improvements in radar range and integration with BVR missiles are being done right now, which will improve its air defence capability.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

You should compare the aircrafts after FOC. Let IAF or ADA publish the parameters of FOC standard LCA Tejas. Then you can compare it with the latest JF-17.

LCA Tejas is a work in progress right now, only a definitive version should be used for comparison.

If you want to compare IOC-2 version with JF-17, you can create a table of technical parameters and put that in your post rather than giving subjective statements.

Ya by the time they complete foc of mk1 block 3 of jf17 will be done with aesa radars.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas - IV

LCA is a very good bomb truck like Mirage 2000. It is an excellent platform for precision bombing. This is where it will be used ultimately in my opinion.

India has plenty of air defence and air superiority platforms. It is not necessary to use LCA Tejas for that role.

However improvements in radar range and integration with BVR missiles are being done right now, which will improve its air defence capability.

And i thought it was replacement for mig 21 which is primarily used for dog fights ?