Know Your 'Rafale'

Mikesingh

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In Pakistani circles the general consensus is that the Rafale and Indian pilots are no threat because many Pakistanis (at least on-line) believe it will take 5-10 years for Indian and their squadrons to ‘master’ the aircraft.
There's even that knucklehead retired air marshal of the PAF Shaheed Lateef who recently insisted on a Pak TV debate that the JF-17 (Thunder Blunder) is far better than the Rafale and that the PAF has nothing to worry about!!!! Lol! :pound:

The extent of idiocy and delusions these Pakis suffer from is mind boggling!! They need help for extreme depression especially after the arrival of the Rafales and need to see a shrink, pronto!
 

Mikel

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There's even that knucklehead retired air marshal of the PAF Shaheed Lateef who recently insisted on a Pak TV debate that the JF-17 (Thunder Blunder) is far better than the Rafale and that the PAF has nothing to worry about!!!! Lol! :pound:

The extent of idiocy and delusions these Pakis suffer from is mind boggling!! They need help for extreme depression especially after the arrival of the Rafales and need to see a shrink pronto!
Rafale and JF-17 are still trending 2 days later on Paki twitter.
 

ARVION

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Yes
"Why does 5 Rafales need protection from 2 Sukhois? :laugh:"
"Rafale is no match for JF-17 with 300 km PL-15"
"Tea is fantastic"

DGISPR and his Abduls

The possible scenario's of Rafale's Vs J 20'S in BVRAAM's Secnario's

The Meteor uses a seeker of the same family as the MICA and ASTER missiles and is a known and proven technology. Also no aircraft is gonna fly straight into a missile while hoping it can jam it successfully - we will gonna see F-pole engagements which the ramjet will create a no-escape zone way larger than the Chinese PL-12 and PL-15 capacities. As for Meteor vs PL-12, that's a no-brainer, the PL-12 is roughly lower to an AIM-120B. The PL-15, on the other hand, features an AESA seeker and a dual-pulse rocket motor, sufficient to scare the USAF into the LREW .

And? It's still a slotted array or pre-PESA radar. Its ECCM advantage is that it has a two-way data-link that can keep it guided by the Rafael. We're uncertain, basically, as to what the exact capabilities of the PL-15 are. The comparable Russian system, the K-77M, has a stated 197 km aerodynamic range, but is roughly the same meters to the PL-15. The minimum expected aerodynamic range of the PL-15 would be 200 km, likewise, but the extended length could result in significantly increased ranges; the MICA missile, for instance, is extremely long range missile's, but sports a 33% longer range (km vs 60km implied aerodynamic range) because of only a 7 kg difference (PL-10E has a listed 105 kg weight, the MICA has a 112 kg weight) and a 5G max maneuverability difference (55G vs 50G).

A further factor is that the standard NEZ of an AAM is about 1/3rd the aerodynamic range. But since the PL-15 is a dual pulse rocket motor, it can fire off its rocket motor in stages and further extend its NEZ over a conventional AAM. At 200 km range with 50% aerodynamic range, you get 100 km. At 250 km range with 50% aerodynamic range, you get 125 km. At 300 km range with the standard 33% aerodynamic range, you get 100 km. The difference between standard AAMs, dual pulse AAMs, and ramjets is that with standard AAMs you get one shot, with dual pulse AAMs you get two shots, and ramjets can continuously vary their thrust as long as they're within ramjet speed.

The problem with the J 20's is that it can't go on a low speed to come near the rafale's due to it current engine is incapable and the air intake's are ruined by the so called DSI's. So even with a new engine they have to redesign the whole aircraft from the engine exhaust the air intake's. So the J 20's even produced in large numbers are incapable of going against the rafale's, due to some silly mistakes in the design's .

The main defenses of the Rafale comes out, first, to the Rafale having a modern IRST, being IOC-ed in 2009, with stated maximum detection / tracking at 100 km. This means that the J-20 can't approach the Rafale at high subsonic and has to do an F-35-style low-speed approach. Second, the Rafale is the only Western aircraft known to be capable of 11G emergency agility, which reduces the effective range of the PL-15.

When it comes to J-20 vs Rafale, the pure offensive competition is very close; the PL-15 likely matche's the Meteor in pure aerodynamic range, likely has almost similar effective range vs 9G based purely on its greater range, but is going to suffer a large range reduction vs a 11G fighter. Defensively, given that the Meteor isn't going to get an AESA seeker until 2022 at the earliest, and that the J-20 is at least a -30 dBsm VLO fighter, that the AESA on the J-20 is jamming capable, the Rafale is going to have a capability to easily detech the J-20.
 
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fire starter

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The possible scenario's of Rafale's Vs J 20'S in BVRAAM's Secnario's

The Meteor uses a seeker of the same family as the MICA and ASTER missiles and is a known and proven technology. Also no aircraft is gonna fly straight into a missile while hoping it can jam it successfully - we will gonna see F-pole engagements which the ramjet will create a no-escape zone way larger than the Chinese PL-12 and PL-15 capacities. As for Meteor vs PL-12, that's a no-brainer, the PL-12 is roughly lower to an AIM-120B. The PL-15, on the other hand, features an AESA seeker and a dual-pulse rocket motor, sufficient to scare the USAF into the LREW .

And? It's still a slotted array or pre-PESA radar. Its ECCM advantage is that it has a two-way data-link that can keep it guided by the Rafael. We're uncertain, basically, as to what the exact capabilities of the PL-15 are. The comparable Russian system, the K-77M, has a stated 197 km aerodynamic range, but is roughly the same meters to the PL-15. The minimum expected aerodynamic range of the PL-15 would be 200 km, likewise, but the extended length could result in significantly increased ranges; the MICA missile, for instance, is extremely long range missile's, but sports a 33% longer range (km vs 60km implied aerodynamic range) because of only a 7 kg difference (PL-10E has a listed 105 kg weight, the MICA has a 112 kg weight) and a 5G max maneuverability difference (55G vs 50G).

A further factor is that the standard NEZ of an AAM is about 1/3rd the aerodynamic range. But since the PL-15 is a dual pulse rocket motor, it can fire off its rocket motor in stages and further extend its NEZ over a conventional AAM. At 200 km range with 50% aerodynamic range, you get 100 km. At 250 km range with 50% aerodynamic range, you get 125 km. At 300 km range with the standard 33% aerodynamic range, you get 100 km. The difference between standard AAMs, dual pulse AAMs, and ramjets is that with standard AAMs you get one shot, with dual pulse AAMs you get two shots, and ramjets can continuously vary their thrust as long as they're within ramjet speed.

The problem with the J 20's is that it can't go on a low speed to come near the rafale's due to it current engine is incapable and the air intake's are ruined by the so called DSI's. So even with a new engine they have to redesign the whole aircraft from the engine exhaust the air intake's. So the J 20's even produced in large numbers are incapable of going against the rafale's, due to some silly mistakes in the design's.
Chinese are making j35 for face saving and to cover the failure of j20.
 

fire starter

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The possible scenario's of Rafale's Vs J 20'S in BVRAAM's Secnario's

The Meteor uses a seeker of the same family as the MICA and ASTER missiles and is a known and proven technology. Also no aircraft is gonna fly straight into a missile while hoping it can jam it successfully - we will gonna see F-pole engagements which the ramjet will create a no-escape zone way larger than the Chinese PL-12 and PL-15 capacities. As for Meteor vs PL-12, that's a no-brainer, the PL-12 is roughly lower to an AIM-120B. The PL-15, on the other hand, features an AESA seeker and a dual-pulse rocket motor, sufficient to scare the USAF into the LREW .

And? It's still a slotted array or pre-PESA radar. Its ECCM advantage is that it has a two-way data-link that can keep it guided by the Rafael. We're uncertain, basically, as to what the exact capabilities of the PL-15 are. The comparable Russian system, the K-77M, has a stated 197 km aerodynamic range, but is roughly the same meters to the PL-15. The minimum expected aerodynamic range of the PL-15 would be 200 km, likewise, but the extended length could result in significantly increased ranges; the MICA missile, for instance, is extremely long range missile's, but sports a 33% longer range (km vs 60km implied aerodynamic range) because of only a 7 kg difference (PL-10E has a listed 105 kg weight, the MICA has a 112 kg weight) and a 5G max maneuverability difference (55G vs 50G).

A further factor is that the standard NEZ of an AAM is about 1/3rd the aerodynamic range. But since the PL-15 is a dual pulse rocket motor, it can fire off its rocket motor in stages and further extend its NEZ over a conventional AAM. At 200 km range with 50% aerodynamic range, you get 100 km. At 250 km range with 50% aerodynamic range, you get 125 km. At 300 km range with the standard 33% aerodynamic range, you get 100 km. The difference between standard AAMs, dual pulse AAMs, and ramjets is that with standard AAMs you get one shot, with dual pulse AAMs you get two shots, and ramjets can continuously vary their thrust as long as they're within ramjet speed.

The problem with the J 20's is that it can't go on a low speed to come near the rafale's due to it current engine is incapable and the air intake's are ruined by the so called DSI's. So even with a new engine they have to redesign the whole aircraft from the engine exhaust the air intake's. So the J 20's even produced in large numbers are incapable of going against the rafale's, due to some silly mistakes in the design's.
do pl 15 have these capabilities.
images (3).jpeg
 

Mikesingh

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By the way, the Paki Foreign spokesperson (quite a bombshell!! 😍) said that the 'balance of power' in the subcontinent will shift in India's favour with the acquisition of the Rafales. Really? Lol! What balance of power? There was never a balance of power. The Pakis must realise that they are nowhere near India in military power, never were and never will be! This oft used cliché reflects Paki self delusions of power and grandeur!

And Pakis say this acquisition will result in an arms race!! Huh? These Porks should know this race is between the Indian hare and the Porki tortoise! Arms race my ass! They sure are living in a world of make-believe! Jeeez!
 
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fire starter

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By the way, the Paki Foreign spokesperson (quite a bombshell!! 😍) said that the 'balance of power' in the subcontinent will shift in India's favour with the acquisition of the Rafales. Really? Lol! What balance of power? There was never a balance of power. The Pakis must realise that they are nowhere near India in military power, never were and never will be! This oft used cliché reflects Paki self delusions of power and grandeur!
balance of power with junk fighter lol.
 

Neptune

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By the way, the Paki Foreign spokesperson (quite a bombshell!! 😍) said that the 'balance of power' in the subcontinent will shift in India's favour with the acquisition of the Rafales. Really? Lol! What balance of power? There was never a balance of power. The Pakis must realise that they are nowhere near India in military power, never were and never will be! This oft used cliché reflects Paki self delusions of power and grandeur!

Wait but Pakistanis also claimed the JF-17 is far superior to the Rafale so how does an inferior aircraft shift the balance? In reality besides a few dozen F-16 and SAAB AWACS the PAF is pretty decrepit and with money constrains I doubt the average PAF pilot is any good.
 

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