Know Your 'Rafale'

[halloweene]

It is a sum up of swiss evaluation. *Kovy is a reliable guy and not a typhoon/gripen basher.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

ok so the situation for dassalt on 36+189 is now a classic as under

he loves me he loves me not
Ciacomo Di Chirico, 1872

Rafale - Inida (Parrikar) will buy me (in nos) India (Prrikar) will buy me not

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

the 90 day negotiation period expires in 10th july just before modis rusia visit

 

[su35]

Even we start quick induction of rafale. It will take more two to three years for introducing russian weaponry or iseral weaponry in rafale. Isn't ?

 

[halloweene]

No, required weapons are under integration afaik.

 

[blueblood]

No, required weapons are under integration afaik.

wrong post .............................................................

 

[halloweene]

wrong post .............................................................

.........................................................?

 

[blueblood]

.........................................................?

I was the one who posted wrong stuff not you.

 

[halloweene]

I'll do my best. Portail-aviation is becoming a real site btw, and there should be some english mirror site. We are 7 accredited for PAS 15. Keep on touch!

 

[su35]

No, required weapons are under integration afaik.

But IAF do not use french missile in large no. Moreover Your Meteor missile is not introduced in rafale completely

 

[SajeevJino]

But IAF do not use french missile in large no. Moreover Your Meteor missile is not introduced in rafale completely

we do, Mirage 2000 comes with bunch of French weapons only..!!

 

[Pulkit]

we do, Mirage 2000 comes with bunch of French weapons only..!!

The poster meant in large numbers and I do agree we do use a limited number of French missiles and even with 36 new Rafale that equation is not gonna change.

This will only create an issue with us as the maintenance and acquiring cost is gonna be huge due to lmited numbers.

 

[SajeevJino]

The poster meant in large numbers and I do agree we do use a limited number of French missiles and even with 36 new Rafale that equation is not gonna change.

This will only create an issue with us as the maintenance and acquiring cost is gonna be huge due to lmited numbers.

Large Numbers means How much ..Here is my Large numbers

IAF Mirages to get new MICA missiles in $1.23 bn deal both MICA IR and EM

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories1300_Mirage_jets_get_new_missile.htm

 

[Pulkit]

Large Numbers means How much ..Here is my Large numbers

IAF Mirages to get new MICA missiles in $1.23 bn deal both MICA IR and EM

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories1300_Mirage_jets_get_new_missile.htm

By large I meant what fraction of aircrafts use French missiles.
We have a majority of Russian and minority of French that's what I wanted to convey .

Cost is no bar.....

 

[su35]

I completely agree with you. Is Rafale is already inducted with Russian weaponry or even isreal weaponry

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

well the def min is trying to close the option of even 36 g2g deal forget about buying more

Is the Naval air force better, more nationalistic than IAF?
Posted on June 20, 2015 by Bharat Karnad
There are curious goings-on in IAF when it comes its dealing with indigenous and Russian aircraft. Is the Indian Air Force so institutionally set against the Tejas LCA aircraft that it will go to any extent to delay its clearances and thus derail the programme, and to show up Russian aircraft as unworthy of India’s custom? Consider the evidence.

Cobham Aviation Service of UK was contracted to supply the quartz radome for the LCA radar. It is four months overdue, but the penalty clause has not been invoked. Why? Because an authoritative source says, the IAF has let it be informally known to the supplier that it doesn’t want an accelerated progress of the Mk-I lest it be ordered by the Govt to buy larger numbers of this aircraft, and so delays would be countenanced.

Further, considering the IAF’s attitude Cobham has also turned down ADA/DRDO’s request for 3-4 internal fueling probes to enable this aircraft to get an FOC (final operational clearance) for the Mk-I. No probes, delayed FOC.

The IAF is mortally afraid that buying into the Tejas will mean jettisoning the possibility of getting Rafales beyond the 36 mooted by the PM in G2G mode, which the IAF has its heart set on. And so it doesn’t want anything to come between the service and a big Rafale fleet in its inventory., specially as Vayu Bhavan is not certain that the def minister Parrikar will even realize the 36 aircraft buy from France.

Another piece of evidence: How come the IAF has so much trouble with its MiG-29 fleet (and its Su-30MKI fleet also), when the two squadrons of MiG-29Ks with the Navy have experienced very few problems, considering the maintenance regimes are virtually the same for the IAF’s version and the naval MiG-29K?

So, the niggling question arises: Is the Indian Navy’s air force simply better than the IAF in servicing, upkeeping, and operating advanced combat aircraft, meaning is it just a better operational force? Training regime-wise, the navy relies on the basic Indian-made HPT-32, a basic jet trainer,before the trainee pilots are tasked to conversion units before deploying to operational squadrons. Meanwhile, IAF has besides the Indian-made trainer aircraft, repeatedly shown its disregard and disrespect for the indigenous HPT-40 trainer project on the anvil by buying a series of trainers — the Swiss Pilatus, the British Hawk, and it is said, has even expressed an interest in yet another advanced trainer, the American Textron Scorpion (with most such buys justified also in terms of their use in counter-insurgency jobs, which of course, they are never called to perform)!!! May be the IAF is an air force perpetually stuck in the trainer mode — a tendency visible since the stewardship of the service by ACM (retd) “Charlie”Browne, now enjoying the Norwegian fjords as our ambassador there, rather than being a serious and meaningful air force our adversaries fear. How else to explain the greater proficiency of naval pilots flying and readying to fight over a more difficult medium — the sea, when the trainee pilots are sourced from the same manpower pool? There must be something the Navy is doing right the IAF isn’t.

And, in the light of the Navy’s enthusiastic financial support for the LCA and its taking ownership of the naval version of the Tejas, whether it is also not the more nationalistic service, eager to promote indigenous products and defence industry in contrast to the IAF which, when not whining about India products and always finding faults with the LCA, does everything possible, in cahoots with vested interests in the Defence Ministry and other parts of govt, to undermine indigenous efforts?

In the event, perhaps, the Indian Navy is in line for an expanded mission and role in the extended Indian Ocean region.

http://bharatkarnad.com/2015/06/20/is-the-naval-air-force-better-more-nationalistic-than-iaf/

 

[Armand2REP]

The poster meant in large numbers and I do agree we do use a limited number of French missiles and even with 36 new Rafale that equation is not gonna change.

This will only create an issue with us as the maintenance and acquiring cost is gonna be huge due to lmited numbers.

You assume they will remain in limited numbers. Based on the way PAK FA is going, I see more Rafale in your future.

 

[Pulkit]

You assume they will remain in limited numbers. Based on the way PAK FA is going, I see more Rafale in your future.

Bonjour
I do not assume I have been quoting my DM.
And yes the numbers will be kept limited due to such an high cost .

the 36 being ordered might be confirmed in coming months after which even at priority two-three years will be taken to deliver them.

If there is a need our DM has said that SU is a option available + I think they might go for T-50 the russian version till FGFA is not ready.

Funds are limited and we need 5th gen A/C more than Rafale.

Rafale with the present order will meet the strategic need (if any it has).

I was earlier expecting an increased order of 18-36 but now even I am not thinking that will happen.

The way DM is working the differences on FGFA will be settled soon and as per Russia our programme is meeting its new schedules.

 

[Armand2REP]

Bonjour
I do not assume I have been quoting my DM.
And yes the numbers will be kept limited due to such an high cost .

the 36 being ordered might be confirmed in coming months after which even at priority two-three years will be taken to deliver them.

If there is a need our DM has said that SU is a option available + I think they might go for T-50 the russian version till FGFA is not ready.

Funds are limited and we need 5th gen A/C more than Rafale.

Rafale with the present order will meet the strategic need (if any it has).

I was earlier expecting an increased order of 18-36 but now even I am not thinking that will happen.

The way DM is working the differences on FGFA will be settled soon and as per Russia our programme is meeting its new schedules.

Your DM has been told to keep his mouth shut before he gets replaced. The option for more MKI was always an option but was rejected by IAF as not exceeding the capabilities of Chinese fighters. Hate to break it to you but FGFA is not 5th generation, it is the same as Rafale and not even half way through its development cycle. To top it off GOI is rather pissed it got cut from 25% to 12% workshare without even being consulted. Not only will the order for 36 go through, it looks likely to reach 100+.

 

[The enlightened]

Hate to break it to you but FGFA is not 5th generation, it is the same as Rafale and not even half way through its development cycle.

How is it not 5th generation? Where are you getting this from when there is not even a single prototype of FGFA? You need to tone down your jingoism. Does Rafale as a whole have the shaping to deflect away radars? Which PAK-FA (which is not our plane) clearly does? There may be problems now but they won't remain forever. We are finally buying Rafale after all the hoo laa loo aren't we?