Jawans clash with officers in army camp in Leh

[pmaitra]

yes, Army officer should be allowed casual dress, eitght hours duty after that and beyond that no asking and service in metros with 8000 transport allowance .....

Jaki kabhi na pathe Bivai wo kya jane peer parayi....

Even the communists have batman..... not only one but a truckload of them

Some guys here are bent upon applying theoretical communism on functional systems...
Marshal Zhukov had one hundred batmen...

Casual dress? 8 hour work shift? First consider quitting pot smoking and posting.

Secondly, do you know Zhukov's background? First learn a bit and then, provide references. Just don't make silly comments like the previous explanation you gave about mutiny. Again, the army doesn't think the way you do.

 

[pmaitra]

It is the only thing that makes one walk into the Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell and Into the Valley of Death while Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley and thunder and they are Stormed at with shot and shell.

That is not the only thing that makes one walk into the jaws of death.

The Charge of the Light Brigade was another instance of blindly following orders; a prime example of military stupidity.

 

[Ray]

Another example is Jaliwanwalabagh. If those Gurkhas and Baloch had some sense of ethics, they'd have turned around and executed Gen. Dyer then and there. They lacked both. Then there is this silly maine-uska-namak-khaya-hai concept. Heck, even the Tsarist Russian Cossacks had more humanity than these bootlickers of the British.

Indeed, most Indians are descendants of the bootlickers, be the of the British or the Princes of India.

That is our fate and that is our genes!

 

[Ray]

That is not the only thing that makes one walk into the jaws of death.

The Charge of the Light Brigade was another instance of blindly following orders; a prime example of military stupidity.

I would most humbly beg to disagree.

That is my experience in war.

I also followed a blind order of my CO and nearly came to grief.

But then that is life.

One can also say blindly following orders also killed many in Kargil and yet if they did not, it would be a part of Pakistan and I wonder if that would have made people proud!

 

[pmaitra]

I would most humbly beg to disagree.

That is my experience in war.

I also followed a blind order of my CO and nearly came to grief.

But then that is life.

I am a civvie, so I will never challenge your experience in war. There is no way I can get any closer to what you have experienced.

I still go by what General Patton said, and you can read it below in my signature. I don't buy blind bravado.

BTW, please welcome ScalieBack at Chit Chat Thread.

 

[Ray]

Seen the police?

They rarely wear their uniform.

Casual dress = casual attitude = causal approach to official work!

Again a British tradition that I quote.

Drill parade as a part of the Training Cycle.

Actually it is unproductive as far as field craft is concerned.

Yet, it hones the mind to learn to obey orders.

Silly to many, but worth the silliness.

 

[Ray]

No bastard can ever win a war by dying for his country.

He can win a war by learning to obey orders so that he works a military outfit and makes the other poor dumb bastard who is casual, die for his country!

Gen Patton is my favourite.

He was unusual but a strict disciplinarian and highly elitist in attitude and dress!

Being different, he infused aura and mystery that all leaders should do.

If people can read you, then you can never be a leader since you will be another of them and so an equal, but just a lucky Joe to be an officer! You have to prove that you are different and heads and shoulder above them!

That is why Indian Army officers lead from the front. Troops may feel that officers are from the same stock, but when you lead from the front, you prove the difference between men and boys! That makes the difference.

Patton won wars by his elitist swashbuckling style and that is what made his eccentricity acceptable!

Take our own Sundarji.

He was swashbuckling and different and he had a huge fan following in the Indian Army.

And then take the great Deepak Kapoor!

He is not welcomed anywhere and yet he was a Chief or take even JJ Singh!

 

[Bhadra]

Casual dress? 8 hour work shift? First consider quitting pot smoking and posting.

Secondly, do you know Zhukov's background? First learn a bit and then, provide references. Just don't make silly comments like the previous explanation you gave about mutiny. Again, the army doesn't think the way you do.

I read you stating that you do not anything about Army and are only a doubting tom. Now you use harsh words and pontificate. Decided which side are you. and Marshal Zukhov's background was worse than a batman... OK.

 

[Ray]

Marshal Zhukov was a legend in Russia.

 

[Bhadra]

An officer who is commanding a post or is in the field area needs to pay attention to his duty 24 x 7. He needs a companion and someone to take care of his errands. It is an operational requirement. Period.
Batman or Sahyak is authorised only in fighting units. Period.

It can never be abolished from IA in the field. What ever a batman does to his officer is part of his military duty. Period.

How this has been misused is a different matter. Period.

 

[pmaitra]

I read you stating that you do not anything about Army and are only a doubting tom. Now you use harsh words and pontificate. Decided which side are you. and Marshal Zukhov's background was worse than a batman... OK.

Listen, you need to stop acting like a know-all, okay? I pretend to do a lot of things, sometimes with the aim of getting the other person in a bind.

You said it was a mutiny; the army says otherwise. End of story.

Next time, try to keep those chips on your shoulder elsewhere. Got it?

 

[pmaitra]

Ray Sir, this is OT, ScalieBack is here at DFI.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/members/scalieback.html

 

[Ray]

Pmaitra,

I don't know how old you are.

But when we were young, in our locality or para, every elder was some mashi, pishi, kakababu, mamababu or some such stuff.

And every time we met them, we had to touch their feet.

Now did that make me 'small' and did it 'demean' me?

I don't think so.

Because the locality was a Family so to say, there was no molestation, eve teasing or anything of the sort. No one would dare to do such stuff.

And yet, there was no blood connection between those of the locality to show reverence.

That is what is bonding.

That is what makes people of a unit ONE.

That is why being a sahayak is nothing demeaning or out of the milieu.

But then, today, some people overrate themselves, coming from humble origins suddenly losing their head and ruining the sanctity of brotherhood and Family.

Cheap people will always be cheap, even if they are foisted in the Rashtrapati Bhavan!

 

[Bhadra]

Marshal Zhukov was a legend in Russia.

Yes Sir,

The enlisted man rose to be the Marshall and Hero of Soviet Union and their highest decorated soldier. Played very important role in many battle including during battle of Krusk along side Nikita Khruscheva.

 

[Ray]

Judge by their standards.

Slim also was a trooper!

 

[pmaitra]

Pmaitra,

I don't know how old you are.

But when we were young, in our locality or para, every elder was some mashi, pishi, kakababu, mamababu or some such stuff.

And every time we met them, we had to touch their feet.

Now did that make me 'small' and did it 'demean' me?

I don't think so.

Because the locality was a Family so to say, there was no molestation, eve teasing or anything of the sort. No one would dare to do such stuff.

And yet, there was no blood connection between those of the locality to show reverence.

That is what is bonding.

That is what makes people of a unit ONE.

That is why being a sahayak is nothing demeaning or out of the milieu.

But then, today, some people overrate themselves, coming from humble origins suddenly losing their head and ruining the sanctity of brotherhood and Family.

Cheap people will always be cheap, even if they are foisted in the Rashtrapati Bhavan!

I agree.

In the army, given the premise of bonding exists, it is fine. It does not always.

Yes, a young soldier must respectfully learn the art of warfare from his superiors, because superiors have that experience. However, soldiers should be soldiers, not peons, and after this Leh incident, I have no doubt this batman system gotta go.

 

[Bhadra]

Listen, you need to stop acting like a know-all, okay? I pretend to do a lot of things, sometimes with the aim of getting the other person in a bind.

You said it was a mutiny; the army says otherwise. End of story.

Next time, try to keep those chips on your shoulder elsewhere. Got it?

That is a bad personality trait. Only commies can be agent provocatuers.
Keep it impersonal or those chips would be pushed at correct place.

 

[pmaitra]

That is a bad personality trait. Only commies can be agent provocatuers.
Keep it impersonal or those chips would be pushed at correct place.

You called me worse than Stalin - so it is you who started it.

Try not to speak out of the wrong orifice - okay?

 

[lemontree]

• Batman system. Replace with nothing. Just get rid of it.

• 
  The system was instituted for a purpose, so it cannot be done away with.
  
  

  [*]Ethnicity based nomenclature. Replace with armies referred to by numbers.

Know you are takling crap.
This system has served us well and shall continue to do so.

Here is what I have to say about the British Indian Army.

• Service = zero, make no mistake, zero. Bootlickers of British Imperialists, along with those vassal collaborators, can go to hell. Not only that, the army's role regarding refusing to amalgamate the INA didn't come across as particularly admirable to me.
• Humility = to whom? The Crown. Vauable to those that matter, not to me.

You just insulted a whole group of people who have given this nation a 300 year old tradition that is the envy of the world.
There is not much one can debate with you now.

 

[Ray]

I agree.

In the army, given the premise of bonding exists, it is fine. It does not always.

Yes, a young soldier must respectfully learn the art of warfare from his superiors, because superiors have that experience. However, soldiers should be soldiers, not peons, and after this Leh incident, I have no doubt this batman system gotta go.

Rationale.

Rationale,

Tovarish!