J20 Stealth Fighter

Armand2REP

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LOL,my hometown is ShenZhen, my uncle's family is in GuangZhou.

I can safely draw the conclusion now,YOU are either blind or joking. BTW, tell us where will open at France at 6:20 AM?
Must be blind huh? Looked at the Landmark International Hotel next to me and a hillside in the distance. Bunch of mid-size apartment buildings on the way to the hill with lights turned off. Took the toll road by taxi towards Bainyu today, near empty as usual. So much unused buildings and infrastructure. Except for all the people on the streets, the cars and lights feel like this city the same size as NYC is about the size of Toulon.
 

niceguy2011

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Must be blind huh? Looked at the Landmark International Hotel next to me and a hillside in the distance. Bunch of mid-size apartment buildings on the way to the hill with lights turned off. Took the toll road by taxi towards Bainyu today, near empty as usual. So much unused buildings and infrastructure. Except for all the people on the streets, the cars and lights feel like this city the same size as NYC is about the size of Toulon.
OK,tell us where will open at France at 6:20 AM?
 

niceguy2011

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I have to understand the question before I can answer it.
Be frankly, I don't think u r in China right now. May be u should provide couple pics for those buildings u just menstioned. (and label the time of those pics have been taken. eg. X:XX AM/PM)

Dont tell me u have no DC .
 

nimo_cn

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Mr Armand, why not take some pictures of the "ghost town"? I don't think that is a tough task for you given you are living there right now. Take some pictures of the empty streets and empty shopping malls in your neighborhood, post these pictures on this forum to prove GZ is becoming a "ghost town"

I happened to stay in Tianhe district when I visited GZ this summer and 1 month ago. I was living in a housing estate called "华颖花园"(Huaying Park), which is next to the Supreme Court of Guangdong Province.

 
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houde10000

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I am in Tianhe GZ right now. It is 6:20 and half the buildings outside my window are completely dark except the stairwells. South China Mall, second largest in the world is empty. The new city of Ordos is empty. There are a string of towns in Inner Mongolia that are empty. Get around and see it.

Dear Mr. Armand2REP,

Great, you know the city of Ordos, it is in Inner mongolia with the highest GDP per capita in China, rich with mineral resource, wool, oil and natural gas. Why there is an empty town? because the local government is too aggresive and greedy, they spent 10 billion dollars to invite 100 world famous designer to design and build the brand new town on Gobi, but there is no so much residents and visitors. It is in chinese news, because it is so special and weird, I feel you pickup a total wrong example to prove yourself.

"South China Mall, second largest in the world is empty", of course, man, it is 6:20am, even the first largest mall in the world will be empty at the same time in the morning.

Sir, I believe you are living in Guandong, you touch and know China, your responsibility is telling your people the truth, wake them up, not live in their pipedream any more. Otherwise, I will think you are not really love your people, you just want to fool them, not come to China to compete with you.
 
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houde10000

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I am in Tianhe GZ right now. It is 6:20 and half the buildings outside my window are completely dark except the stairwells. South China Mall, second largest in the world is empty. The new city of Ordos is empty. There are a string of towns in Inner Mongolia that are empty. Get around and see it.
You indian know south korea very well, right? do you know Guandong province GDP is as large as south korea, Guangzhou is like south korea capital Seoul, if you tell indian seoul is ghost city/town, do they believe you?
 

niceguy2011

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You indian know south korea very well, right? do you know Guandong province GDP is as large as south korea, Guangzhou is like south korea capital Seoul, if you tell indian seoul is ghost city/town, do they believe you?
He said he have eyes ,LMAO
 

niceguy2011

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You indian know south korea very well, right? do you know Guandong province GDP is as large as south korea, Guangzhou is like south korea capital Seoul, if you tell indian seoul is ghost city/town, do they believe you?

He said he have eyes ,LMAO
 

black eagle

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coming back to the topic in hand... If there are weapons bays at all then they should be here....

 

black eagle

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Look carefully this pic shows a line.. It could be the weapons bay door...

 

agentperry

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hmmm.... when plaaf changed its insignia??? fifth gen is not surprising me but drift from plaaf insignia to soviet insignia is troubling me.... may be i missed something these days about plaaf.... the very first picture of prototype had soviet insignia or atleast appeared to be soviet one...
 

Armand2REP

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You indian know south korea very well, right? do you know Guandong province GDP is as large as south korea, Guangzhou is like south korea capital Seoul, if you tell indian seoul is ghost city/town, do they believe you?
I live in Tienhe, most people in Guangdong don't have the money to live in my district. That is why there are so many unrented luxury apartments about. Most people can't afford toll roads either. They are spending too much on housing.
 

Armand2REP

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Dear Mr. Armand2REP,

Great, you know the city of Ordos, it is in Inner mongolia with the highest GDP per capita in China, rich with mineral resource, wool, oil and natural gas. Why there is an empty town? because the local government is too aggresive and greedy, they spent 10 billion dollars to invite 100 world famous designer to design and build the brand new town on Gobi, but there is no so much residents and visitors. It is in chinese news, because it is so special and weird, I feel you pickup a total wrong example to prove yourself.
I use the example of an empty city to cite Chinese lack of forsight for the same reason there is no weapon bays on the J-20. It is a perfect example to counter the comment it was directed to which stated China would not waste the effort. China is infamous for wasted efforts.

"South China Mall, second largest in the world is empty", of course, man, it is 6:20am, even the first largest mall in the world will be empty at the same time in the morning.
I was talking about during the day. There are hardly any shops in one of the world's largest malls.

Sir, I believe you are living in Guandong, you touch and know China, your responsibility is telling your people the truth, wake them up, not live in their pipedream any more. Otherwise, I will think you are not really love your people, you just want to fool them, not come to China to compete with you.
You so funny, most of my people wouldn't bother coming to work in China. The money isn't good enough for most Frenchmen.
 

AprilLyrics

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OK,u r right.it doesn't have weapon bays.china made this plane to cheat other countries.
 

badguy2000

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I live in Tienhe, most people in Guangdong don't have the money to live in my district. That is why there are so many unrented luxury apartments about. Most people can't afford toll roads either. They are spending too much on housing.
well,since you claim that you live in Tianhe, you should know quite well about Tianhe.

So, can you name the most prestigious university in Tianhe district? And can you tell us which avenue the university is in? I happened to finish my postgraduate degree there. hehe.

And, can you tell me which avenue you live in? which Xiaoqu you live in ?
 

Anil Sankar

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I remember 4G and above aircraft must be able to perform vertical take off and landing right?

I don't think this so call 5G can do it.
 

black eagle

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I remember 4G and above aircraft must be able to perform vertical take off and landing right?

I don't think this so call 5G can do it.
no you are wrong... vertical take offs & landings has got nothing to do with generations of an aircraft. it's a capability given to any aircraft based on the role it is supposed to perform. currently only a variant of the F-35 is being made to perform vertical TO/LANDINGS. All other 5th gen fighters are conventional TO/LANDING aircrafts...
 

black eagle

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Stealthy Chinese J-20 Vulnerable

By David A. Fulghum, Bill Sweetman, Bradley Perrett, Robert Wall
Washington, Washington, Beijing, London

China's newest combat aircraft prototype, the J-20, will require an intense development program if it is going to catch up with fast-moving anti-stealth advances.

In fact, anti-stealth will bring into question all stealth designs: How much invulnerability will current low-observability techniques offer as air defense systems adopt larger and more powerful active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars? From the early days of AESA development, a key goal was to build a radar that could detect very small objects—such as a cruise missile at a distance great enough to target and shoot it down—or a larger object like a fighter with a very low-observable treatment.

Airborne detection of stealth aircraft may already be an operational capability. In a series of tests at Edwards AFB, Calif., in 2009, Lockheed Martin's CATbird avionics testbed—a Boeing 737 that carries the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter's entire avionics system—engaged a mixed force of F-22s and Boeing F-15s and was able to locate and jam F-22 radars, according to researchers. Raytheon's family of X-band airborne AESA radar—in particular, those on upgraded F-15Cs stationed in Okinawa—can detect small, low-signature cruise missiles.

Moreover, Northrop Grumman's lower-frequency, L-band AESA radar on Australia's Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft is larger and potentially more capable of detecting stealth aircraft at longer ranges.

Lockheed Martin also hinted at a JSF anti-stealth capability in 2009 in a reference to combat with sophisticated, foreign aircraft. "The F-35's avionics include onboard sensors that will enable pilots to strike fixed or moving ground targets in high-threat environments, day or night, in any weather, while simultaneously targeting and eliminating advanced airborne threats," said Dan Crowley, then-executive vice president and F-35 program general manager.

Better images emerging from China point clearly to the J-20's use of stealth technology, but major uncertainties and questions remain unresolved.

The overall shape resembles that of the F-35 and F-22, which have a single "chine line" uniting the forebody, upper inlet lips, and wing and canard edges with a curved surface above that line and flat, canted body surfaces below it. The wing and canard edges are aligned: The wing and canard leading edges are parallel and the trailing edge of each canard is aligned with the opposite wing's trailing edge. The same basic philosophy also has been adopted in British, Swedish and Japanese studies for stealth fighters.

The aim in all cases is to endow a practical, agile fighter configuration with a "bow-tie" radar signature, with the smallest signature around the nose and the greatest (still much lower than that of a conventional aircraft with curved or vertical-slab sides) to the side. The fighter's mission planning system, using a database of known radar locations, then derives a "blue line" track that weaves between radars and avoids exposing the side-on signature to those radars more than transiently.

The "diverterless" supersonic inlet avoids a signature problem caused by a conventional boundary layer diverter plate. For example, the F-22 has a conventional inlet, which is likely to require extensive radar absorbent material (RAM) treatment.

The biggest uncertainty about the Chinese design concerns the engine exhausts, which as seen on the prototype are likely to cause a radar cross-section (RCS) peak from the rear aspect. One possibility is that a stealthier two-dimensional nozzle will be integrated later in the program; however, the nozzles on the current aircraft show some signs of RCS-reducing sawtooth treatment, suggesting that the People's Liberation Army has accepted a rear-aspect RCS penalty rather than the much greater weight and complexity of 2D nozzles.

Other features are less clear. Stealth development has been dogged by detail-design challenges. All the antennas on the aircraft have to be flush with the skin and covered with surfaces that retain stealth properties while being transparent in a specific frequency. Maintainability becomes a complex tradeoff: Some systems requiring frequent attention will be accessed via landing gear and weapon bays, and others by latched and actuated doors that can open and close without affecting RCS—but the latter involves a weight penalty.

Perhaps the toughest hurdle is managing radio-frequency surface currents over the skin. Early stealth designs used heavy, maintenance-intensive RAM. The F-22 introduced a much lighter surface treatment, but it has proven unexpectedly difficult to maintain, causing corrosion issues. Lockheed Martin now asserts that the F-35 will be robust and affordable to maintain in service, with a combination of a high-toughness, sprayed-on topcoat and a conductive layer cured into composite skin panels.

The Chengdu J-20 design has struck many analysts and observers as familiar and somewhat different from the F-22, F-35 or Sukhoi T-50.

"The J-20 is reminiscent of the Russian MiG-1.42 both in terms of planform and also with regard to the rear fuselage configuration," says Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies. "The most obvious difference is the greater forward fuselage shaping as the basis for low-observable characteristics, along with the different engine intake configuration. The MiG program was canceled by the Russian government around 1997," he notes. However, the similarity to the MiG concept may suggest some collusion with the Russian aviation industry.

The J-20 made its first flight shortly before 1 p.m. Beijing time on Jan. 11. The flight ended three weeks of anticipation that began in late December when the new design started taxi tests.

The discussion about the program will now shift to the aircraft's mission (fighter or, more likely, long-range strike), sensors (strike missions would require a high-resolution, long-range radar) and communications (which would demand high-speed data links and sophisticated integration).

Conventional radars have only one-half to one-third of the range of an AESA radar. Moreover, the movement of a conventional, mechanically scanned radar antenna provides a tell-tale glint of radio-frequency reflections to enemy aircraft with advanced radars. Such reflections undercut the effectiveness of a stealth airframe. China is known to be pursuing newer radar technology.

"It's too early to tell the true status of the Chinese AESA program," says a Washington-based intelligence official. "We've seen lots of press and air show information on the program, but that doesn't automatically translate into a robust development or give us an accurate look at where [China] is as far as fielding one anytime soon.

"Like the [high-performance] engine, it'll be a challenge to take the step from older radars to one designed for a fifth-generation fighter," he says. "Again, though, the J-20 is just the first or second—depending on whom you believe—prototype in a very long development program."

If the Chinese conduct a few months of flight tests and there are no more aircraft involved in the program, this might indicate that the J-20 is a proof-of-concept or technical demonstrator. If there are several aircraft eventually, a prototype program would be a more likely conclusion.

The flight occurred during a visit to China by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who says Chinese President Hu Jintao confirmed the event to him in talks. However, Gates still believes the U.S. will retain a preponderance of stealth fighters through 2025.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/awst/2011/01/17/AW_01_17_2011_p20-281824.xml&headline=Stealthy%20Chinese%20J-20%20Vulnerable&next=0
 

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