Yes India can get richer despite the caste system BUT social harmony is necessary for a stable and prosperous country.The reason for India's poverty in today's era is flawed economic policies and flawed governance. Period. No exotic "caste system" or "class system" bullshit here.
Poverty has been reducing ever since economic policies were corrected, and India has massively developed from the 1990s till date. We are about to enter another boom phase in the next 10 years. Those who have sense will invest in India today and reap handsome benefits later.
Those who keep moaning about "ancient Hindooo caste system" and breast-beating that India will never develop because of it, are the ones who will be left behind.
Society will mature, and the vestiges of the caste system will disappear only with increasing economic growth. Prosperity is a prerequisite for getting rid of caste. No amount of government programming or socialist-inspired "mass education" will fix the problem.Yes India can get richer despite the caste system BUT social harmony is necessary for a stable and prosperous country.
A temporary phase of growth cannot be equated to fundamental change.
Gaining wealth and keeping that wealth are two different things.
One of the exceptions to the theory that urbanisation reduces caste system is the reddy and Chowdhary rivalry in andhra and Telangana . Even though it is a political rivalry and nothing to do with caste system being discussed in this thread. This is having a negative impact on productivity at work place. For a long time I have been advising freshers to get a job outside of Hyderabad so that they do not get caught up in this cycle.Society will mature, and the vestiges of the caste system will disappear only with increasing economic growth. Prosperity is a prerequisite for getting rid of caste. No amount of government programming or socialist-inspired "mass education" will fix the problem.
We see this around us. The 1990s were a period of vicious caste violence with the Dalit Sena, Ranbir Sena, etc. gaining notoriety. Not to mention Mandal agitations etc. If we had not seen economic growth, these caste fault-lines would have torn apart the nation.
Today, with increasing urbanization, more and more people are leaving the stifling cesspool of ignorance that is their village, and are making a beeline for cities and towns. There they get exposed to modern ideas and are able to participate in the modern digital economy. There is no scope for the rural caste hierarchy in cities. It is merit that counts. No one in an IT company in Bangalore or a giant factory in Chennai or a bank in Mumbai really cares about the caste of the individual. It is only merit that counts.
With increasing prosperity and financial independence, youngsters are able to make informed choices of their own. The Tamilian call center employee who marries a North-Eastern girl in a "love marriage" has done his bit to unite the nation and has dealt yet another blow to the caste system. Such stories abound in urban middle-class India. Had this been a tiny village in Haryana, the couple would have been lynched and the Khap would have ordered "gangrape of the girl" as a "punishment".
So net-net, the point is that we need economic growth, urbanization and prosperity. Most of the nation's problems will automatically be taken care of, if economy becomes our prime focus as a nation.
And anyhow, the question asked in the thread was, "is Indian class system responsible for poverty". The answer is, "bullshit, it is not any exotic class system that is responsible, but bad economic and governance policies".
Things don't change instantly. And as you point out, freshers have the option to move to Bangalore or Chennai or Pune or NCR for a job, to escape casteist shit. Similarly, freshers from Bangalore, Mumbai, Kolkata, etc. move to Hyderabad as part of the natural cycle of demand and supply. A Bangalore guy has no idea of the "Reddy-Chowdhary shit" prevalent in Hyderabad, while a Hyderabadi has no idea of the caste dynamics of Karnataka (Gowdas, Lingayats, etc.).One of the exceptions to the theory that urbanisation reduces caste system is the reddy and Chowdhary rivalry in andhra and Telangana . Even though it is a political rivalry and nothing to do with caste system being discussed in this thread. This is having a negative impact on productivity at work place. For a long time I have been advising freshers to get a job outside of Hyderabad so that they do not get caught up in this cycle.
The government is implementing reservations for many years. I have seen positive results of the reservation system though there are some negative results as well. However if we take an overall view, the reservation system is positive. Poverty alleviation programs have also benefited the lower caste.@sgarg, I am speaking in practical terms. On paper, it is easy to say that "grassroots change" at the "social and religious level" is what we need. In practice, all these government-inspired socialist type programs for "reeducation" never work.
Instead, just focus on economic development, urbanization, industrialization and prosperity. Social changes will automatically occur.
As long as ubiquitous caste-based reservations in jobs/promotions continue, caste-based politics would continue to survive. Egalitarian society -that's not even a pipedream.Today a "caste system" is practiced which is far worse than "by birth class system". Caste is absolutely illogical and pathetic system.
However people are waking up as they get educated and barriers are falling. We expect India to become an egalitarian society in 40-50 years down the road.
@jouni, India & China were 100x times richer than any other society throughout the documented history, till as recently as 1700 (i.e. for several thousand years). Europe's prosperity (already on the decline) is , comparatively, a very recent phenomena ( a equally ephemeral, as well), which started post-Industrial revolution.Interesting, I did not know that there was such a prospering society in India. What to say, we also had classes before in Europe before. Nordic system gets blamed for not cresting enough economic growth, but I think that it more than enough compensates that with low inequity. Cant imagine how it is to live in a country with great past and problematic todays society. Try not to think too much of the past, concentrate more on future.
So instead of both growing together for a better world, you want to put us down? Of course I am not the right person, coming from a small country to comment of the future of the west, but I think it looks good. We have built infrastructure and social capital for centuries, even if the growth slows down, it is still there. You on the other hand have a huge work ahead to try to bring everybody onboard the progress train.@jouni, India & China were 100x times richer than any other society throughout the documented history, till as recently as 1700 (i.e. for several thousand years). Europe's prosperity (already on the decline) is , comparatively, a very recent phenomena ( a equally ephemeral, as well), which started post-Industrial revolution.
Everyone knows which nation is headed where. While India-China is consistently ascending, EU nations are in a permanent recession & depend on immigrants to continue running their tiny nations- a trend that would only intensify in future.
Caste still counts in TCS. Or, so it is believed.There is no scope for the rural caste hierarchy in cities. It is merit that counts. No one in an IT company in Bangalore or a giant factory in Chennai or a bank in Mumbai really cares about the caste of the individual. It is only merit that counts.
I know caste based reservation is wrong, but so is the caste system. If you see it the other way - we need to ensure fair opportunity to all sections of society.As long as ubiquitous caste-based reservations in jobs/promotions continue, caste-based politics would continue to survive. Egalitarian society -that's not even a pipedream.
We are not putting you down. Yes everybody is on the progress train.So instead of both growing together for a better world, you want to put us down? Of course I am not the right person, coming from a small country to comment of the future of the west, but I think it looks good. We have built infrastructure and social capital for centuries, even if the growth slows down, it is still there. You on the other hand have a huge work ahead to try to bring everybody onboard the progress train.
There will be some amount of caste/regional/linguistic/parochial considerations everywhere. It hardly counts enough to make a big dent. I am not a TCS guy, neither am I am ex-TCS guy - but I know several people who are. While there are several things to say against TCS, institutionalized caste bias is not one of them.Caste still counts in TCS. Or, so it is believed.
@bose How true is that ? Any TCS guy, here ?
So, what you are saying is: you have never ventured beyond your metro ? You must be a proper-city guy.I know caste based reservation is wrong, but so is the caste system. If you see it the other way - we need to ensure fair opportunity to all sections of society.
Reservation is only in government jobs. Government jobs are actually in decline in India. There is no reservation in the private sector. So the situation is not as you describe.