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BTW, don't think LCA mk1 is the answer for our mmrca woes. If we trust HAL these dogs would deliver the 200lca only by 2050 when the rest of the world would be inducting 7th or 8th gen aircraft
so i am sure that when rafale fanboys says that spectra alone accounts for 30% of rafale priceDude stop peddling nonsense..even by the account of French and Israeli components being the reason for increased cost, the 60%higher costs (as per Parikkar itself) can't be explained unless the su30MKI has 40% or so western involvement by value. only LCA fanboys can make such adsurb claims that avionics and other minor components constitute 40% of the aircraft cost.
HAL is pathetic and has been the bane of India for which its fanboys blame IAF
heheBTW, don't think LCA mk1 is the answer for our mmrca woes. If we trust HAL these dogs would deliver the 200lca only by 2050 when the rest of the world would be inducting 7th or 8th gen aircraft
As usual, you are peddling nonsense, just like you did in the other forum. This is not about rafale. This is about your claims. Are you going to claim with a straight face that avionics form 40% of the components of MKI by worth?so i am sure that when rafale fanboys says that spectra alone accounts for 30% of rafale price
then you will call that also as bullshit & crap
agrred ?
How so typical. So the su30mki+ LCA combo , which you are peddling here, does not include increased orders for LCA ? #moronhehe
Tejas is not supposed to solve MMRCA woes - it never was supposed to
Tejas is supposed to fill the light fighter / interceptor category and to
1.
fill up the nos for the 60 sqds for IAF
2.
to lower operating costs of the IAF
the alternative to MMRCA - rafale EFT is
a combo of Su30MKI & Tejas NOT tejas alone
it doesHow so typical. So the su30mki+ LCA combo , which you are peddling here, does not include increased orders for LCA ? #moron
Then what exactly were you countering when you quoted me to post that BS? Typical. #moronit does
it is inevitable
but there is differene in logic
LCA does not substitute for MMRCA - Rafale / EFT etc
Another bs post..
Most of the components built for Su30MKI in india does not mean India has that tech or IP of that tech
eg.
we build Su30MKi engines in india - but we pay royalty / Licensing fees / ToT fees to the russain OEM to make those engines and to learn those tech
This is why I always skip your nonsense in the other forum when reading the discussions between professionals.. For the second time, we are talking about Tejas and not rafale.so i am sure that when rafale fanboys says that spectra alone accounts for 30% of rafale price
then you will call that also as bullshit & crap
agrred ?
Obfuscation of logic, not related to the argument. How typical.if you think not then answer a simple question
why do we need to import engines for tejas
if we can build Su30MKI eninges on our own then why cant we build engines on our own for Tejas
answer this simple question
your choice and prerogative entirelySince I value my time, I am not going to reply unless you make some argument which is not nonsense or derailment or obfuscation. I don't have the patience of vstoljockey or randomradio to deal with your nonsense.
I did not even quote Rafale. What I need is you to back up your claims 2,3 and 4 by providing some source. Otherwise it does not make sense, because we are comparing cost with cost and not some add-ons to the manufacturing cost.the costs go up by 50% dont double up as i explained with figures in my last post
also
the avionics, sensors etc are the things which are major costs because that is what all it is about
some french members claims that spectra on rafale costs 30% of the rafale price
i know we are talking about Su30MKI but the example of Rafale was to show that increasingly the costing is in avionics & electronics not airframe
it is a fact thatI did not even quote Rafale. What I need is you to back up your claims 2,3 and 4 by providing some source. Otherwise it does not make sense, because we are comparing cost with cost and not some add-ons to the manufacturing cost.
I would expect Indian manufacturing is cheap and hence the add-ons India puts on MKI should be more or less be compensated by that. But not.
Ofcourse, it is pure incompetency even if the cost is 50% higher. In any case, given any source, it is greater than 50% which needs some explanation by HAL.
I hate HAL for the retirement planning den it is for the IAF leadership. Basically I don't want to do them a favour but some of your points/data are either wrong or incomplete or your conclusions are wrong.From the article- Hal takes 400crores to manufacture SU 30 which is manufactured in Russia for 230 crores, which shows how competent Hal thugs are. Hal was the reason MMRCA failed because HAL could not match the manufacturing cost offered by Rafael.
But LCA fanboys have no problem blaming IAF in defence of that pos called Hal
I did not even quote Rafale. What I need is you to back up your claims 2,3 and 4 by providing some source. Otherwise it does not make sense, because we are comparing cost with cost and not some add-ons to the manufacturing cost.
I would expect Indian manufacturing is cheap and hence the add-ons India puts on MKI should be more or less be compensated by that. But not.
Ofcourse, it is pure incompetency even if the cost is 50% higher. In any case, given any source, it is greater than 50% which needs some explanation by HAL.
I dint pull the data from anywhere. It is there in the article I quoted.I hate HAL for the retirement planning den it is for the IAF leadership. Basically I don't want to do them a favour but some of your points/data are either wrong or incomplete or your conclusions are wrong.
I don't actually believe the rafale fanboys when they claimed that it was HAL which threw the wrench in the mmrca, but now that I have seems a similar comparative prices of HAL and Sukhoi manufacturing the same aircraft, I have no choice but to accept the argument that Rafael fanboys were right.HAL was not the cause of the failure of MMRCA. HAL could not have manufactured the Rafale for the French on road price . The French simply told our people - oh sorry we had quoted the price based on a 4.5 hour day because we are highly efficient and HAL cannot do it because it is inefficient and works 8 hour days. So HAL cost goes up and MMRCA cost goes up and RFP does not hold. Also because HAL is inefficient and not reliable so we will not guarantee their output.
Except even the article you linked claims the same thing- Rafale could not ensure that the cost of the jets produced by HAL will be the same as that of the jets they offered.Reality was that Dassault had nearly no spare production capability and was relying on depreciated plants and amortized R&D and just plain lying to get to L-1 status. First rule of costing is that you if have no production capacity left then you accept whatever is there till the time you can make at least the fixed costs
Any one without an agenda with HAL can believe that.On top of that they 'choose' Reliance Industries for making Rafale. Now who in right mind would believe that RIL will be able to make Rafale cheaper compared to HAL. RIL would have to start from zero.
Yes good riddence now that we have to rely on the incompetent traitors at HAL for our national security(LCA), hoping against reality that those dogs would miraculously abide by their own timeline, which they have time and again failed so far.Reality is the Anthony showmotion ideation and IAF salivation for its Driver ki naukri did the deal in. IAF leadership has itself to blame for the mess.
Good riddance, I say.
There is more but then I need to say good night for tonight.
yeah right. We must take into account the customs tax, excise tax , income tax, XYZ tax for bonus for calculating MANUFACTURING COST of the aircraft manufactured within India .Vat : as per state laws -
inerstate 2% CST
income tax : effective tax rate 30%
minimum alternate tax :20%
so at the most
HAL will pay
excise duty : 12.36%
VAT / CST : as per state laws / 2%
Income tax : 30%
total : 44.36%
the GOI cahrges excise VAT CST Income tax precisely for goods mfg in indiayeah right. We must take into account the customs tax, excise tax , income tax, XYZ tax for bonus for calculating MANUFACTURING COST of the aircraft manufactured within India .
Not really, did you even read the link? Besides, when did 2-4% VAT amount to 60% increase in prices for manufacturing? And do you know that VAT exists in France and Rus too, EU as a whole has 20% VAT iirc .the GOI cahrges excise VAT CST Income tax precisely for goods mfg in india
they dont charge those for thing mfg in france rusia
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