Is Air force capable of Two Front War?

[LETHALFORCE]

The best thing India could do in the scenario is to lure the Chinese in as deep as we can and then focus on crippling the supply lines this is logistically a nightmare from a range and terrain point of view, we don't need to use our assets immediately but we force the Chinese to use theirs first in 1979 Vietnam used this strategy in defeating the Chinese, then focus on crippling the supply lines, once this goal is achieved it will be a fruitless effort for the Chinese. Also much of the land war will have the Chinese fighting from lower ground to higher ground a major disadvantage to start. But since we are focusing on the air force the formula would be for the army to hold the ground and use air power to cripple supply lines,communications and roads. Also how much fuel can be held at PLAAF bases to keep continuous supply going?? Most of the planes PLAAF will use will not have mid air refuelling capability. There are also rumors of ASTRA surface to air version being developed.

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes...rms-two-ground-launches-of-Astra-missile.html
India performs two ground launches of Astra missile

 

[captonjohn]

The best thing India could do in the scenario is to lure the Chinese in as deep as we can and then focus on crippling the supply lines this is logistically a nightmare from a range and terrain point of view, we don't need to use our assets immediately but we force the Chinese to use theirs first in 1979 Vietnam used this strategy in defeating the Chinese, then focus on crippling the supply lines, once this goal is achieved it will be a fruitless effort for the Chinese. Also much of the land war will have the Chinese fighting from lower ground to higher ground a major disadvantage to start. But since we are focusing on the air force the formula would be for the army to hold the ground and use air power to cripple supply lines,communications and roads. Also how much fuel can be held at PLAAF bases to keep continuous supply going?? Most of the planes PLAAF will use will not have mid air refuelling capability. There are also rumors of ASTRA surface to air version being developed.

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes...rms-two-ground-launches-of-Astra-missile.html
India performs two ground launches of Astra missile

That's the point here, also chinese would cover their air bases and military bases with heavy SAM cover but they will probably forget major non military targets which can affect their military too much. Hitting to less defended targets or high value non military targets can be better options like important roads, bridges, dams as they may indirectly affect chinese supply line and divert their attention to their people.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

That's the point here, also chinese would cover their air bases and military bases with heavy SAM cover but they will probably forget major non military targets which can affect their military too much. Hitting to less defended targets or high value non military targets can be better options like important roads, bridges, dams as they may indirectly affect chinese supply line and divert their attention to their people.

There are very few roads to begin with once these are destroyed any effort used to move troops or weaponry will be wasted.

 

[Yusuf]

Assets from Western front will not be used in the estearn front. We are going for a capability based armed forces, so we will have enough for both fronts.



Air superiority is not possible for either forces. Air superiority over Pakistan is also not possible as of today. PLAAF's main focus will be Air Denial. As long as IAF is not able to bomb PLA, PLAAF has achieved all it's objective.

Winning the air war is of no use. Winning on the ground is what matters. So as long as both air forces prevent getting their armies bombed, they are successful. Other than that air power is of very little use over mountains.

Exactly mate. That's why I asked what would be the role of PLAAF: air war is going to be inconsequential in a sino-indian war, not a game changer atleast. If at all china wants to use huge numbers, it will be on its eastern front and not against india. It will be nothing but a shooting contest to use air force. At best some support for the men on the ground. The terrain is such we cannot think about a proper air war. Some of the discussion preceding this is flawed in that regard as the assumptions are wrong.

 

[p2prada]

Exactly mate. That's why I asked what would be the role of PLAAF: air war is going to be inconsequential in a sino-indian war, not a game changer atleast. If at all china wants to use huge numbers, it will be on its eastern front and not against india. It will be nothing but a shooting contest to use air force. At best some support for the men on the ground. The terrain is such we cannot think about a proper air war. Some of the discussion preceding this is flawed in that regard as the assumptions are wrong.

Air force can assist in quick transports of casualties and sending in reinformcements. But that's about it. We shouldn't waste too many air assets on the Eastern front. Current IAF plan is to have 4 squadrons of MKI on the eastern front and the rest around Pakistan, mayhaps 1 in Andaman. Adding 4 squadrons of MRCA will be enough against China. 150 aircraft is more than enough for the battlespace allowed there.

That would be 8 squadrons against China and the rest 20 or so squadrons against Pakistan.

I am assuming the war will be fought more in China than in India incase of an Indo-China war in the near future. However China is progressing well with placing their war zone campaign doctrine. We are probably doing nothing about the Cold start doctrine as of now. The Chinese are making changes and so are we. We are going to become a capability based force soon enough. So, that will tilt the balance further in our favour.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

air superiority........they will use cruise missile (airlaunched)

Indeed, PLAAF use such force against C4 structure of IA and IAF over NE..
But Getting Air superiority in the region for PLAAF is close to Impossible..

1
No of bases Over Tibet is not more than 4 and another 3 in construction vs IAF, 20 above, From these they have to operate Air-refulars, Most of the tibet bases are Air defense consist of J-11 and SU-30MKK & Updated J7..

2
Surveillance on both sides are strong, IAF advantage is that we will know when they are in Air and we are close to operational zone hence less reaction time..

Question? What would the primary role of PLAAF be in a war with india that it initiates?

Destruction of IA & IAF C4 structure, Destruction of IAF fighters and bases near operational zone..
There is not much PLAAF can do against us..

Air superiority over whose skies? Indian? Coming over from high airfields of tibet, using old MiGs, how? They don't even have good range. They will come into india but won't go back.

Those are not Old Migs but Newer J-11s and SU-30mkk with Updated J7 ( Same as IAF MIG-21 bisons ) as Airdefence Fighter..
Also they have very good numbers of Air-refulers..

Give a Look:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/08/j-11-over-tibet.html

But its just not enough to breach IAF defense over NE..

Do note that Arunachal is a battle arena and a perfect SAM ambush zone, There are few IAF bases over Arunachal, rest are behind Arunachal, Almost like Hornet nest..

 

[ace009]

No we don't. We tried to get one, but the Russians objected and we ran away from there.

We have an air force base in Tajikistan.

 

[ace009]

Assets from Western front will not be used in the estearn front. We are going for a capability based armed forces, so we will have enough for both fronts.

I agree - at present we may not have enough to cover our NE and west fronts at the same time, but in another 7-8 years, we should be having two different set of assets.

Air superiority is not possible for either forces. Air superiority over Pakistan is also not possible as of today. PLAAF's main focus will be Air Denial. As long as IAF is not able to bomb PLA, PLAAF has achieved all it's objective.

Winning the air war is of no use. Winning on the ground is what matters. So as long as both air forces prevent getting their armies bombed, they are successful. Other than that air power is of very little use over mountains.

Actually, since PLA is bigger, better equipped and has better infrastructure (i.e. better mobility) compared to IA, IAF needs to have air superiority in Indian skies and air denial over China (in the war zone). Only then will be able to "level the playing field" (with A2G missiles and bombs ). That would be "success" for IAF. Simple air denial over Indian territory is not enough.

 

[COMMANDER2010]

Are we Dreaming??? The 1962 war left us with the given stats - 1,383 Killed, 1,047 Wounded, 1,696 Missing, 3,968 Captured are we going to repeat some thing like that? i doubt who on earth will wage a war with China...China should always be resolved through dialogue...Taiwan/Japan should wage war with them. Coming to Pakistan, they are part of us. British ruled us together hence we can rule them from Delhi. Now for the PAF - they would not stand a match for potential adversary like IAF. They might get luck at times and may be they could get support from China or US. The 7th fleet or 5th Fleet can come to help them but we stand alone and we will always continue to stand alone.

Air superiority will aways be possible against PAF. There numbers might be smaller but they will always loose ground against the Indian Army. So they could fly there planes for 10hrs with in-flight refueling but eventually they will have to land, they can land on our air bases as there airbases will not be left to land as they are close to the border. F-16 is always projected as a superior plane, does it match up to the Indian pilots decision making!not sure how could they match that up...............

 

[vikramrana_1812]

 

[ace009]

Pakistan controlled Kashmir and Indian controlled Kashmir - Tibet shown up separately from China - where did you get this gem from?

 

[debasree]

we cannot fight with both countries ,but one way we can dealt with them ,first go for a sergical strike with tactical nuke to neutrilise pakistans total air and naval assets and then concentrate on china with conventional weapons some say that pakistan will hit back but dont worry they will be scared to do so as they know the retaliatory strike will erase them from earth.

 

[ace009]

we cannot fight with both countries ,but one way we can dealt with them ,first go for a sergical strike with tactical nuke to neutrilise pakistans total air and naval assets and then concentrate on china with conventional weapons some say that pakistan will hit back but dont worry they will be scared to do so as they know the retaliatory strike will erase them from earth.

NO NUKES - never even think of using nukes as a first strike and never use it for "tactical strike".

 

[Atul]

The Fight will be decisive, but not prior to the induction of the MMRCA.

The Western Front will be managed & dominated by the MMRCA (most probably the Rafale) the obsolete Pakistan Air Force is no match to it. even its new JF-17, does not stand a chance.

The Eastern Front, must be the MKI's Playground. the Chinese are well aware of the potential of the MKI, so it will not be a problem, to face enemy on both fronts.

 

[civfanatic]

The Fight will be decisive, but not prior to the induction of the MMRCA.

The Western Front will be managed & dominated by the MMRCA (most probably the Rafale) the obsolete Pakistan Air Force is no match to it. even its new FJ-17, does not stand a chance.

The Eastern Front, must be the MKI's Playground. the Chinese are well aware of the potential of the MKI, so it will not be a problem, to face enemy on both fronts.

LOL FJ-17?

The biggest Pakistani threat to the IAF is the F-16, not the third-generation Thunder Blunder.

A MiG-23MLD is more capable than JF-17 Blunder.

 

[fflower]

no the Air force is not capable of Two Front War.

 

[fflower]

Indian army is already revising its doctrine to fight War in two fronts with China and Pakistan, Army with its 1.13-million strong personnel and recently held war games might have even cemented Army's doctrine on possible "Two Front War " .

 

[civfanatic]

no the Air force is not capable of Two Front War.

Elaborate please?

Why do you think this way?

 

[Sabir]

Keep 200 dummy MKI in north-eastern front and send all planes to western fronts.

 

[Atul]

no the Air force is not capable of Two Front War.

Right brother, the PAF is not capable to sustain a war on two fronts, but here we are speaking of the IAF.