INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[PaliwalWarrior]

Todays news in local gujrati news paper

The Gujarat police looking forward to evaluation and trials for Excalibur - Trichy assault rifle to replace Ak47 in their inventory

a team of gujarat police officials is going tomorrow to meet the key officials for evalution of the guns

 

[Kunal Biswas]

From personal experience with respect to handling of the Rifle, It is excellent for CQB ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Ahmedabad: Gujarat Police will soon get Insas rifles to fight against terrorism. The decision to provide the Insas rifles to Gujarat police has already been taken and 25 rifles for trails given to the police. This decision is aiming to fight against increasing terror attacks.

 

[Blood+]

See @abingdonboy bro,that's the reason I do not trust that ----ing Coldhearted guy!!He doesn't know shit about firearms yet never stops masking such tall claims all the time INSAS this INSAS that!!He even had the audacity to term the others as paid DRDO bots!!For ----'s sake,stop giving him so much respect,that turd doesn't deserve it.

 

[acetophenol]

@Kunal Biswas , @Ray and others:

Does our Ghataks use INSAS? Or do they prefer anyother weapons? Can you post some pics?

 

[Blood+]

Yes @Kunal sir,please try to reply to the above quarry,it's really necessary.Someone has been spewing a lot of bs over some place.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Ahmedabad: Gujarat Police will soon get Insas rifles to fight against terrorism. The decision to provide the Insas rifles to Gujarat police has already been taken and 25 rifles for trails given to the police. This decision is aiming to fight against increasing terror attacks.

does the excalibur have any jamming issues ?

 

[abingdonboy]

From personal experience with respect to handling of the Rifle, It is excellent for CQB ..

It's far too large for CQB surely? Like the M-16.

 

[abingdonboy]

See @abingdonboy bro,that's the reason I do not trust that ----ing Coldhearted guy!!He doesn't know shit about firearms yet never stops masking such tall claims all the time INSAS this INSAS that!!He even had the audacity to term the others as paid DRDO bots!!For ----'s sake,stop giving him so much respect,that turd doesn't deserve it.

Bro, I do respect him and he has offered a unique insight into the Indian Army, specifically SFs in the past and has had some cool encounters that he is willing to share with us. His views about the INSAS are his own and I have no idea what they are based on that's all I can say.

 

[acetophenol]

It's far too large for CQB surely? Like the M-16.

The Stock is foldable, and with the Butt folded its length is 665mm, less than M4 carbine with stock retracted (756mm)

Ordnance Factory Board

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I am not sure your temper and language with respect to whom, But please be civil ..

A lot of people spell lot of disinformation regarding anything Indian origin including themselves as it has become a fashion or an attempt of introducing first world problem into our small third world community or just trying to be attention seeker .. Lets not get distracted.

Ask anything regarding INSAS 1B1, This thread is full of information relates to the topic ..

See @abingdonboy bro,that's the reason I do not trust that ----ing Coldhearted guy!!He doesn't know shit about firearms yet never stops masking such tall claims all the time INSAS this INSAS that!!He even had the audacity to term the others as paid DRDO bots!!For ----'s sake,stop giving him so much respect,that turd doesn't deserve it.

Yes @Kunal sir,please try to reply to the above quarry,it's really necessary.Someone has been spewing a lot of bs over some place.

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Ghatak`s are elite units in CT operation and they indeed use INSAS 1B1 along AKs ..

INSAS primarily use as its accurate rifle over ranges where AK is mostly used for spray and pray much like a carbine ..

@Kunal Biswas , @Ray and others:

Does our Ghataks use INSAS? Or do they prefer anyother weapons? Can you post some pics?

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Every Rifle jams at some time, Excalobur is based on 1B1 so i can believe its prefomrace is similar, Which is satisfactory ..

does the excalibur have any jamming issues ?

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1B1 with 18 inch barrel itself is quite short compare to M-16, Excalibur is even short than 1B1 with folding butt ..

While handling the Rifle, I felt its quite same as a 16inch barreled Rifle ..

The Stock is foldable, and with the Butt folded its length is 665mm, less than M4 carbine with stock retracted (756mm)

Ordnance Factory Board

It's far too large for CQB surely? Like the M-16.

 

[Ray]

@Kunal Biswas , @Ray and others:

Does our Ghataks use INSAS? Or do they prefer anyother weapons? Can you post some pics?

INSA is used.

 

[Twinblade]

It's far too large for CQB surely? Like the M-16.

At 895 mm is a couple of inches longer than M4 and a lot shorter than M-16.

 

[Ky Loung]

"The military must change the caliber and cartridge of the guns it gives infantry soldiers. Stoner's little 5.56-mm cartridge was ideal for softening the recoil of World War II infantry calibers in order to allow fully automatic fire. But today's cartridge is simply too small for modern combat. Its lack of mass limits its range to less than 400 meters. The optimum caliber for tomorrow's rifle is between 6.5 and 7 millimeters."
Source: theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/01/gun-trouble/383508/

One thing I like to tell you about American's news papers, they don't know shit. Seriously, these people have never shot a gun and only repeat what other clueless people have said. The Atlantic report is a hit job on the AR15 which cause a lot of gun forums and blogs to go ballistic in America. Some even wrote large response to the story.

A Dissection Of (Yet) An(other) M4 Hit Piece - The Firearm Blog

It's been a while but I'm pretty sure I posted it. I'll post it again. M193 and M855 have better penetrating power than M80(7.62x51NATO). M193 and M855 will defeat level 3 body armor. Lvl 3 body is not rated to stop M193 and M855. It will stop M80. M193 and M855 have better penetrating performance than 7.62x51NATO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsZ53ber3YE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM

5.56x45 will still have enough power to kill a human target at over 1000 yards. It been proven with kills at that range in Afghanistan. It out range and out penetrate both 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. 5.56 will out penetrate 7.62x51NATO.

 

[Ky Loung]

Never underestimate a round, only because it's .22 diameter bullet.

Graphic Pictures :

This is work of NATO 5.56mm which are lighter than OFB 5.56mm ammo

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_vJcKa90vLkg/S2RTg_KWWCI/AAAAAAAAHyI/JkspbO3VNfU/s1024/image006.jpg
http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/75688.jpg
sniper_shot2_292.jpg Photo by IkeMcgowan | Photobucket

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5.56mm has many variation, IA use 64gr 5.56mm with Muzzle velocity of 2900fps vs NATO SS109 62gn at 2900fps, With 1B1`s 18inch barrel and with twist rate 1/7, Its is killing even at 650ms range, 600ms is more than sufficient for AR range as most battle occur under 300ms ..

About newer 6.5mm or 6.8mm and their marketing advertise as it is heavier and faster yet at affordable recoil, Then its just advertisement for marketing, New Generation 5.56mm have similar or better preform ace, I have posted a research in last page conducted by US army with other caliber rounds as you mentioned ..

The 5.56x45 is a very lethal round. It a very good round. It far better then both 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Have greater pentartion than 7.62x51NATO.

When people post the 5.56x45 is design for wounding, it pretty stupid and shows they have no idea what they are talking about. One thing people need to know, Americans don't make things to wound, they make things to kill more effectively. Our firearm training is design to "shoot to stop". From civilians all the way to military. It a nice way of saying put as much bullets into the person until he is dead, ie stop moving. In America if you been shot and survive then your opponent didn't do it right.

You don't need fragmentation to incapacitate. Fragmentation is a bonus.

 

[Ky Loung]

From personal experience with respect to handling of the Rifle, It is excellent for CQB ..

I don't have the stats so I can only judge it from what I see. If you can get me the stats it would make it easier for everybody.

From the picture the body design is obsolete. It use the same basic design as the AKM. It will have the same issue mounting accessories as the AKM. From the looks of it barrel is not free floating. Free Floating barrel is now the standard in all new modern western weapons that came out in the 8 years or so.

 

[Twinblade]

It will have the same issue mounting accessories as the AKM.

Nope. The mount you see on top of dust cover mounts a picatinny rail attachment like the standard INSAS.

The cover is also sturdier than the AKMs, more like Valmet, that also has sights on dust cover. Though not fool proof, it is more suited than AKM to mount accessories.

From the looks of it barrel is not free floating.

Any rifle with a gas mechanism attached cannot be free floating despite whatever manufacturers claim.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In our Military it is important that the new generation rifle maintenance and training should be similar to its predecessor, We have an Army of +4 million volunteer Army standing and issuing new we-peon should not be an issue to basic grunt, About the rifle, The operating system is from AKM including the bolt and bolt assembly and most of the whole receiver, But for mounting optics there is place for mounting it above the thick ( Thicker compare to an AKM`s ) dust cover which is nondetachable unlike in AKM to what @Twinblade have said ..

INSAS family firearms furniture are mainly consist of Aircraft grade thermostat, It is design to minimize the heat generate by the barrel to great extent but has its limits and our training make sure we don`t reach beyond the point of its limits ..

It use the same basic design as the AKM. It will have the same issue mounting accessories as the AKM. From the looks of it barrel is not free floating..

Nope. The mount you see on top of dust cover mounts a picatinny rail attachment like the standard INSAS.

The cover is also sturdier than the AKMs, more like Valmet, that also has sights on dust cover. Though not fool proof, it is more suited than AKM to mount accessories.

 

[Ky Loung]

Nope. The mount you see on top of dust cover mounts a picatinny rail attachment like the standard INSAS.

The cover is also sturdier than the AKMs, more like Valmet, that also has sights on dust cover. Though not fool proof, it is more suited than AKM to mount accessories.


Any rifle with a gas mechanism attached cannot be free floating despite whatever manufacturers claim.

The cover is not ideal for mounting anything. Even if it rock solid and I doubt it is, it will not hold zero. When you remove the cover and put it back on it will not be at the same original place. That's why AK have side rails to mount optics or they replace the rear iron sight to mount optic. That's the only two places are stable enough to mount accessories. The Russian want to get rid of their AK for a modernized body style.

Any rifles can use free floating rails. Lets look at the AK variation. Trevor which is an AK bullpup use free floating handguards. Sig 556 another AK use free floating handguards. XCR another AK use free floating handguards. The list goes on.

I'll be brutally honest, you guys are getting rip off. The rifle body is not fit for a modern warfare, for a modern military. It might be good 30 years or so but now the body design is so outdated. I'm very surprise the Indian military even considering buying this. For the money I expect more not less.

 

[Ky Loung]

In our Military it is important that the new generation rifle maintenance and training should be similar to its predecessor, We have an Army of +4 million volunteer Army standing and issuing new we-peon should not be an issue to basic grunt, About the rifle, The operating system is from AKM including the bolt and bolt assembly and most of the whole receiver, But for mounting optics there is place for mounting it above the thick ( Thicker compare to an AKM`s ) dust cover which is nondetachable unlike in AKM to what @Twinblade have said ..

INSAS family firearms furniture are mainly consist of Aircraft grade thermostat, It is design to minimize the heat generate by the barrel to great extent but has its limits and our training make sure we don`t reach beyond the point of its limits ..

I understand the needs to be coherent in firearm generation training. It save time and resources. However there is a time where the military have to make the painful transition to modernize firearms or left behind and be conquered by your enemies.

The AK body design is obsolete. It was good in the late 40s but now it's 2015. Military firearms must take advantage of the accessories that are coming out. Current we have accessories available to buy for both civilian and military that allow the rifle to make hit 100% times at any distant without much effort. Without a stable mounting system these optics and accessories cannot be use.