INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[vampyrbladez]

INS Vishal program stalled once again.

The Indian Navy’s longstanding plan to build and commission its second indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC-2) into service by 2030–32 has been further postponed due to steadily declining budgets, technological hurdles, and, above all, enduring delays by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in approving the programme.

The proposed 65,000–70,000 tonne conventionally powered ‘flat top’ carrier – tentatively named Vishal – capable of embarking 50–60 fixed- and rotary-wing platforms, attaining speeds of up to 30 kt, and projected to cost INR800–900 billion (USD11.65–13 billion) – is part of the IN’s Maritime Capability Perspective Plan (MCPP).

First announced in 2005 and later updated for the 15-year period until 2027, the MCPP envisages the IN fielding three carrier battle groups (CBGs): one for each seaboard and one in reserve.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

Highly speculative news. No one knows what will happen in 5 years and here is talk of 2032.

 

[Kshithij]

Also, cost of 80000 crore is bewildering and insane. INS Vikrant cost only 20000 crores. How can another aircraft carrier cost 4 times?

Highly speculative news. No one knows what will happen in 5 years and here is talk of 2032.

 

[binayak95]

Highly speculative news. No one knows what will happen in 5 years and here is talk of 2032.

This news article is a direct quote of Ajai Shukla's article. Take it with a bucketload of salt.

 

[Kay]

Good. We have so many other priorities. Aircraft carriers are already obsolete like battleships of old days. No one has realized yet because there has not been a war with opponents both having carriers.
Too many eggs in the same basket.

 

[Armand2REP]

This news article is a direct quote of Ajai Shukla's article. Take it with a bucketload of salt.

I am trying to figure what his cost estimate is based on, a Ford class carrier?

 

[binayak95]

Good. We have so many other priorities. Aircraft carriers are already obsolete like battleships of old days. No one has realized yet because there has not been a war with opponents both having carriers.
Too many eggs in the same basket.

No, a carrier is not obsolete. There is a massive difference between Sea Denial that subs and asymmetric threats such as missile boats and land-based strike fighters can exercise and Sea Control which is the sole domain of carriers.

WWII Pacific theatre was full of Carrier on carrier engagements! What are you talking about? Coral Sea, Midway, the battles around the Philippines!
PLAN for long believed that it did not need carriers, now they are feverishly building carriers and dolling out offers to Brazilians and Russians to train their crew on how exactly a carrier is operated.

 

[binayak95]

================== REPEAT POST ================

 

[R A Varun]

http://www.gdnl360.com/2018/07/uss-nimitz-possible-jewel-for-india.html


Can India get nimitz to check the Chinese naval growth

 

[Darth Malgus]

http://www.gdnl360.com/2018/07/uss-nimitz-possible-jewel-for-india.html


Can India get nimitz to check the Chinese naval growth

Seems like a dream. Not keeping my hopes up for now.

 

[Kshithij]

What if USA senators want India to deter china in carrier group, dont they offer to fund the carrier fleet of India if needed to tie down china from crossing over the pacific with all those power it has. Since India has both manpower and firepower to deal with china though in inhospitable terrains along the Himalayas, can't USA afford to share the ford classs technology with INDIA to shorten its fleet repair time and making them to head home port for every refit? USA funded many wars that wasn't its war, it had participated in many wars that wasn't too its war, but china on the other hand is an direct threat to USA, its stubbordness wish to become great in the world again has dealt a serious threat to the USA. half a trillion is USA defence budget. fifty billion is what Inidan armed forces budget. if situation demads and if USA desperately needs INDIA to sustain china on its front, US technology will definetely come to the aid of the INDIAN manpower.

What are you saying? Why will USA give India nuclear carriers? Also, why do you thin India can't build large number of carriers without USA help simply by indigenous manufacturing? India can manufacture aircraft carriers for much lower costs if it scales up the work. India doesn't need USA support.

Secofly, China may be USA's enemy but for India, China is good for combating USA. Xi has promised India that China will not challenge India in IOR region. So, the only threat in IOR for India is USA and its bases surrounding India. Diego Garcia is one of the important threats of India

 

[Sam Shaw]

IAC-2 shown during IN’s R day parade float

Hey brother, I have a youtube page to. I made a video
We should work together to check these pakistani madrasa chaps.

 

[no smoking]

PLAN for long believed that it did not need carriers, now they are feverishly building carriers and dolling out offers to Brazilians and Russians to train their crew on how exactly a carrier is operated.

That is a 100% incorrect. Aircraft carrier has been always on the top of PLAN's dream list. Until the end of 20th century, they simply didn't have the money and technologies to buy one or build one. But they never gave up this dream, in last 80s when their budget was cut to the bone, they still imported Australian aircraft carrier to study in the name of waste steel.

 

[Kay]

No, a carrier is not obsolete. There is a massive difference between Sea Denial that subs and asymmetric threats such as missile boats and land-based strike fighters can exercise and Sea Control which is the sole domain of carriers.

WWII Pacific theatre was full of Carrier on carrier engagements! What are you talking about? Coral Sea, Midway, the battles around the Philippines!
PLAN for long believed that it did not need carriers, now they are feverishly building carriers and dolling out offers to Brazilians and Russians to train their crew on how exactly a carrier is operated.

All those battles predate modern missiles. The carrier is a floating airport - which is a capability that cannot be replaced by anything else. But they are getting increasingly vulnerable to cruise missiles. Massed cruise missiles will saturate and overwhelm carrier defences. A loss of a carrier is huge loss of manpower and resources, not to mention demoralization. It is better to decentralize these resources. The heyday of the super carrier is over.

 

[Kay]

The carrier debate is going on for many years. John McCain is advocating lighter carrier and US senators have funded design study for lighter carriers. We seem to be going the other way.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...cas-aircraft-carriers-could-be-obsolete-25334

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...vy-doesnt-want-ask-the-aircraft-carrier-26102

https://warisboring.com/the-u-s-navy-s-big-mistake-building-tons-of-supercarriers/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ica-s-aircraft-carriers-could-become-obsolete

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wired.com/2011/06/are-aircraft-carriers-slowly-becoming-obsolete/amp

http://mil-embedded.com/guest-blogs/aircraft-carriers-are-just-big-fat-targets/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.yah...ason-why-america-apos-aircraft-134900083.html

 

[arya]

Guys any news related to Vishal ???

 

[WolfPack86]

INS Vishal
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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History

India
Name: INS Vishal
Commissioned: 2030 (Expected)[1]
Status: Planned (design phase)
General characteristics
Class and type: Vikrant-class aircraft carrier
Displacement: 65,000 tonnes[2][3]
Propulsion: Integrated electric propulsionSystem(IEPS)[4][5]
Aircraft carried: 50–55 fixed- and rotary-wing (planned) [6][7]
INS Vishal (Sanskrit: Vishal "giant"[8]) (IAC-II) is the follow-on class of aircraft carrier currently in its design phase, which will be built by Cochin Shipyard Limited for the Indian Navy. It is intended to be the first supercarrier to be built in India. The proposed design of the second carrier-class will be a new design, featuring significant changes from INS Vikrant (IAC-I), including an increase in displacement an EMALS CATOBAR system is also under consideration, and could be used to launch heavier aircraft.[9][10][11]

Design and development[edit]
In April 2011, Admiral Nirmal Kumar Verma stated that construction of the second carrier was some years away as there were a number of higher spending priorities for the navy.[12] The design stage of IAC-II began in 2012, and was undertaken by the navy’s Naval Design Bureau. The navy decided not to seek outside help in preparing the design concept and implementation plans, but might seek help from the Russian Design Bureau later to integrate Russian aircraft into Vishal. IAC-II is proposed to be a flat-top carrier with a displacement of 65,000 tonnes and might have a CATOBAR system, unlike the STOBAR system on IAC-I.[3][13][14][15] On 13 May 2015, Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) allotted Rs.30 crore for initial construction planning process of INS Vishal.[16][17]

Indian Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Dhowan said: “All options are open for the second indigenous aircraft carrier. Nothing has been ruled out. It could be nuclear powered.”[9] Indian Government signed an agreement with United States to form a Carrier Working group to identify areas of collaboration and they first met in August 2015.[18] Initially the carrier was planned to have a nuclear propulsion system but later decided change to Integrated Electric Propulsion System (IEPS) due to the complexities involved in developing a nuclear reactor of 500–550 Megawatts capacity will take 15–20 years.[10][11]

The Indian Navy has reached out to four international defence companies for suggestions with the design of Vishal. The letters of request (LoR) were sent to British firm BAE Systems, French firm DCNS, American firm Lockheed Martin and Russian firm Rosoboronexport on July 15, 2015, according to a report in Jane’s Navy International.[19] The letter asks the companies to “provide technical and costing proposals” for the IAC-II program.[19]

The Indian Navy evaluated the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS), which is being used by the US Navy in their latest Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carriers. General Atomics, the developer of the EMALS, was cleared by the US government to give a technical demonstration to Indian Navy officers, who were impressed by the new capabilities of the system. The EMALS enables launching varied aircraft including unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV). The carrier was initially expected to enter service by the 2020s but latest reports (as of November 2016) suggests that it will enter service only by 2030 due to the technical challenges involved in assimilating and integrating several advanced technologies for the first time in an Indian carrier.[8][20][21][22] After the renewal of DTTI between India and the United States, it is possible that the EMALS could be produced in India with the assistance from General Atomics.[23] As of October 2017, The Trump administration has decided to give assistance to India by releasing the crucial Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) for the Indian Navy's future aircraft carrier INS Vishal, this decision came just ahead of US secretary of state Rex Tillerson's visit to India on 24 October 2017.[24]

Carrier air group[edit]
The decision regarding the carrier air battle group still remains unclear because of the lack any official comment regarding the subject but most experts speculate that it may consist of naval variant of Tejas Mk II as well as future 5th generation fighter jets like HAL AMCA and UCAVs like the DRDO AURA that the Indian Navy may choose to develop. In December 2016, the navy announced that the HAL Tejas is overweight for carrier operations, and alternatives will be explored.[25][26] In January 2017, an international offer was made for interest in a new carrier borne aircraft.

Naval planners believe that, with INS Vishal likely to enter service in the early 2030s, they should plan on operating UCAVs from that carrier, as well as an AEW aircraft, and medium and light fighters. According to a naval planner, it "could greatly expand our mission envelope with UCAVs, using the pilot-less aircraft for high-risk reconnaissance and SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses). Mid-air refueling would let us keep UCAVs on mission for 24–36 hours continuously, since pilot fatigue would not be a factor."[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Vishal

 

[sob]

All those battles predate modern missiles. The carrier is a floating airport - which is a capability that cannot be replaced by anything else. But they are getting increasingly vulnerable to cruise missiles. Massed cruise missiles will saturate and overwhelm carrier defences. A loss of a carrier is huge loss of manpower and resources, not to mention demoralization. It is better to decentralize these resources. The heyday of the super carrier is over.

For the missile to hit an AC, first they have to find it and remember it is not a stationary target. An AC may be huge but in the open seas it is like a small pin.

 

[Haldiram]

All those battles predate modern missiles. The carrier is a floating airport - which is a capability that cannot be replaced by anything else. But they are getting increasingly vulnerable to cruise missiles. Massed cruise missiles will saturate and overwhelm carrier defences. A loss of a carrier is huge loss of manpower and resources, not to mention demoralization. It is better to decentralize these resources. The heyday of the super carrier is over.

Right.

There's no need for a super carrier, but maybe 3-4 mini carriers, not specifically for their ability to launch fighters but to act as a force multiplier in advancing your network centric warfare capabilities. The ship itself has the power supply to support a large coms station that can act as an uplink/downlink between your satellites. It can be used for battlefield management systems operating troops deployed on land, and for the early warning of incoming missiles and directing of outgoing missiles. Its utility in the modern landscape is more of an information node, than an airport.

Sure the carrier group may be vulnerable but even the enemy has to commit a large % of their force to tackle the battle group, which ensures that a large chunk of the enemy's force gets tied down in a protracted and expensive carrier vs carrier cat and mouse game, which keeps them from mounting a sudden amphibious attack on the land and allows our land forces to gear up.

On the flip side, if you had really expensive communication gear (ELINT + encrypted coms), would you feel comfortable placing it on a destroyer or frigate which doesn't have a slew of submarines, missiles, fighter jets and ASW helicopters defending it?

 

[Babloo Singh]

As a tribute to Atal Bihari Vajpayee IAC II shoud be named as INS Atal and it should be Nuclear Powered..

Do you agree ?

 

[Kay]

As a tribute to Atal Bihari Vajpayee IAC II shoud be named as INS Atal and it should be Nuclear Powered..

Do you agree ?

Agree with the naming - not with nuclear propulsion.