INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[Gessler]

Man, he is not now present. He was viewing this thread some hours ago when we were arguing. I suggest you to go to his blog. Google "Life of soldier - Update on AMCA". As far as how the timeline is possible, you have to ask him directly. He always say that he has reliable info!

The last line in his article: "If all things goes per schedule"

...pretty much sums up everything I've been saying so far. Now the question remains: if according to the DRDO Chief, Tejas Mk-2 will be ready by 2024 if everything goes to schedule, then how on friggin' Earth does one estimate that they can also get the AMCA ready by the same time?

Atleast for the Tejas Mk-2, we have the engine already selected & ordered, we've completed the design already (and I believe the design review is done as well) and better still we are just improving upon an existing design. The Mk-1.

As I said, too much wishful thinking. I'm saying this for the last time, AMCA is an extremely far-fetched possibility and no-one (neither IAF nor IN) is going to give up on existing programs to bank on AMCA instead. The Tejas Mk-2 will stay, as will the Rafale and Rafale-M.

@SajeevJino

 

[Superdefender]

Tell you what, @Gessler, he also has a defence page named as "Indian Defence" Facebook. Try some luck and message him there. He is a man who never talk about timelines without necessary souce. The way I see it, only way it is possible if IAF scraps mk. 2.

 

[delta]

bhailogs @Gessler and @Superdefender let's put the discussion of the still-in-design stage AMCA to a different thread and get back to the still-in-design Vishal, whatsay?

 

[Superdefender]

bhailogs @Gessler and @Superdefender let's put the discussion of the still-in-design stage AMCA to a different thread and get back to the still-in-design Vishal, whatsay?

bhailogs @Gessler and @Superdefender let's put the discussion of the still-in-design stage AMCA to a different thread and get back to the still-in-design Vishal, whatsay?

Thanks for waking me up. No more AMCA in here.

 

[SajeevJino]

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@Gessler look at some report and analysis from Saurabh Joshi

http://www.stratpost.com/fighters-for-the-iaf-creating-paths-to-a-dead-end

Second, the LCA Mk II was given a quick burial to stop another round of interminable wastage.

some love his views..some may not

http://www.stratpost.com/light-combat-aircraft-need-for-course-correction-i

http://www.stratpost.com/light-combat-aircraft-need-for-course-correction-ii

 

[SajeevJino]

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Amrika did a plane that carry a GAU 8

India making a plane that can carry pair of modified ameriki Indian Engine - AMCA

 

[Gessler]

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@Gessler look at some report and analysis from Saurabh Joshi

http://www.stratpost.com/fighters-for-the-iaf-creating-paths-to-a-dead-end


some love his views..some may not

http://www.stratpost.com/light-combat-aircraft-need-for-course-correction-i

http://www.stratpost.com/light-combat-aircraft-need-for-course-correction-ii

I'm certainly not one of the guys who love his views. So on the 14th of February, Sourabh Joshi says Mk-2 LCA has been quietly buried..which means it's already been a deal of time since the project was buried and he reported it now.

Then on the 20th, the DRDO Chief comes out saying they'll have the first Tejas Mk-2 ready for testing by next year-end or so.

Hmmm....so....let me see. Who should I believe? I've decided to believe in the Chief's words for what their worth. If you guys want to believe in this Sourabh Joshi (seriously this is the first time I'm hearing his name) that's your choice.

 

[SajeevJino]

I'm certainly not one of the guys who love his views. So on the 14th of February, Sourabh Joshi says Mk-2 LCA has been quietly buried..which means it's already been a deal of time since the project was buried and he reported it now.

Then on the 20th, the DRDO Chief comes out saying they'll have the first Tejas Mk-2 ready for testing by next year-end or so.

I think that's media magic .. mostly DRDO chief says Tejas MK 1 A, media changed it into MK 2

Hmmm....so....let me see. Who should I believe? I've decided to believe in the Chief's words for what their worth. If you guys want to believe in this Sourabh Joshi (seriously this is the first time I'm hearing his name) that's your choice.

Quite interesting .. he has many good options to report authenticate info's, quite few in today's journo

ever heard the famous strat post round table discussion.

this from 2014

 

[sasum]

and we'd not be able to stifle east pakistan as quickly during the 71 war.

What you are talking about?
INS Vikrant doing a naval blockade during B'desh liberation war was just locker-room brag. In fact it was a liability with a malfunctioning boiler, but Pakis didn't know it. And what was it blockading? Just 4 rudimentary gun-boats of Pak's Eastern Naval Command !!

 

[garg_bharat]

A large carrier needs a lot of resources to protect it. American carriers are shadowed by SSNs.

American carriers move in a carrier group which consists of several other cruiser/destroyer ships.

This is further protected by shore based airpower from dozens of airbases around the world.

The basic thing is a carrier is a large target. It is not stealthy, and can be detected easily by satellites.

 

[garg_bharat]

A carrier based strategy imitating USA must include all components as to how these ships will operate effectively in wartime.

The fact is India can easily get 5-6 airbases in friendly countries around the world where su-30 can be based.

Even a half squadron of Su30 operating from countries like Bahrain can do wonders to safety of India's oil imports.

 

[garg_bharat]

There are powerful foreign lobbies engaged in promoting high priced military goods.

The purpose is to tie down India's limited financial resources into a few very expensive but useless programs, so that india stops paying attention to critical needs.

 

[archie]

Everything needs to be seen & judged in right perspctive. If an AC hit by a cruise missile sinks, we lose crores of rupees worth of military assets, not to speak of human lives which can not be made good in a decade. If a missile hits an island in A&N the damage is not that serious. Besides, floating airbases are meant for international super-cops like US which has to project power far from their shores without bothering about counter-attack. Can any nation dare hit an US vessel? Even Russia, which has all the technology at its command maintains just one AC, because it doesn't need to do policing around the world. Italy has two small ACs, Britain, France one each but they are part of overall NATO assets. Btw, AC is more like a white elephant for a 3rd world country like ours

We are the only country on this planet to have an Ocean named after us.. Dont you think its imperative that we police it .. for doing so we need assets like CBGs .. Armed forces should not think of themselves any smaller compared to other forces.. Americans have the political will to back their forces .. India has not seen such a political will .. That is no excuse for IN not lose on its mandate to police the Indian Ocean which is the Job of the "INDIAN Navy"

I dont see where the white elephant comes into play.. We are playing with the big boys to police what is our own backyard .. I would rather see IN spend on these Mighty Elephants rather than see an american or Chinese one stalking off our coast ..

 

[sasum]

We are the only country on this planet to have an Ocean named after us.

Your post has more sentimental appeal than logic & pragmatism; by the same token Saudi Arab may say Arabian Sea is named after it and she has exclusive right of policing it upto Mumbai harbour
Jurisdiction of a country extends to 12 nautical miles from shore and upto 200 nauts for exploiting natural resources. Beyond that it is all international waters where every country has equal rights. We should be bothered only upto 200 NMs from shores.

 

[Immanuel]

People need to quite whining about the AMCA and LCA, the same said douchebags would rather see an expensive import like the Rafale (the same said deal is barely hanging by the thread by the way). They need to chill the fuck out, LCA MK-1A will be ready around 2017. At the moment with the IAF not showing much interest in LCA MK-2 and is gladly willing to accept it as a MLU later on has little say in this matter for now. The Navy doesn't care for the LCA MK-2 coming now because they don't have enough Carriers to support it anyways, Both the INS Vikramditya & INS Vikrant will share the 40 of the 45 Mig-29Ks between them along side some N-LCA MK-1/ MK-2 PVs & LSPs. 5 MIg-29K will probably be in reserves.

So 2024 is actually the perfect time for the LCA MK-2 to be ready, this can allow it to have plenty of near 5th gen upgrades including a home made AESA, passive tech (EO/IRST), Supercruise with uprated GE engines, Large panel displays in the cockpit etc etc.

AMCA also doesn't need to be ready before 2025, by then there will be plenty of LCA in service along side Mig-29 UPG, upgraded Jags, Upgraded Mirages, a monster fleet of MKI, atleast 3 sqds of PAKFA with more on the way under 'Make in India'

All of which are more than enough to offer a good amount of protection. AMCA should again be both a IAF/IN project and hence can be ready for 2025-2027 when the next set of carriers are ready.

 

[garg_bharat]

We are the only country on this planet to have an Ocean named after us.. Dont you think its imperative that we police it .. for doing so we need assets like CBGs .. Armed forces should not think of themselves any smaller compared to other forces.. Americans have the political will to back their forces .. India has not seen such a political will .. That is no excuse for IN not lose on its mandate to police the Indian Ocean which is the Job of the "INDIAN Navy"

I dont see where the white elephant comes into play.. We are playing with the big boys to police what is our own backyard .. I would rather see IN spend on these Mighty Elephants rather than see an american or Chinese one stalking off our coast ..

India has invested in long range maritime recon for a reason. These planes can locate enemy ships. The su30 can fly up to 5500 km with air refuelling to attack such ships. The Brahmos missile can attack not only land targets but also ships.

 

[garg_bharat]

This is why we need arrangements with Bahrain, Mauritius and some other countries where our planes can land and refuel.

 

[Anikastha]

@Superdefender
How much time we need to bring N-AMCA into game..At present situation of AMCA is still under development. It needs another decade to mature and to get inducted..so lets keep it out of the discussion.
I heard that we gonna use N-LCa for Ins vishaal.
@abingdonboy @Gessler
Sir Is Mig-29k is perfect match for chinese sea shark?
Their naval squadron is bigger than ours.
We should never underestimate chinks.
30 character

 

[Superdefender]

@Immanuel & @SREEKAR, I had already mentioned that no more AMCA in this thread. I have already provided source and about the blogger. If you can't understand how it can be inducted in 2025, then donot ask me, ask him directly. And @Immanuel, I have already commented earlier that IAF should cancel mk. 2. Only Navy should continue mk. 2 project. If it starts development now, mk. 2 will be ready at the time of Vishal commission. Because Vikrant and Vikki will not carry N-Tejas, only Vishal will.

 

[Immanuel]

@Immanuel & @SREEKAR, I had already mentioned that no more AMCA in this thread. I have already provided source and about the blogger. If you can't understand how it can be inducted in 2025, then donot ask me, ask him directly. And @Immanuel, I have already commented earlier that IAF should cancel mk. 2. Only Navy should continue mk. 2 project. If it starts development now, mk. 2 will be ready at the time of Vishal commission. Because Vikrant and Vikki will not carry N-Tejas, only Vishal will.

IAF will not cancel LCA MK-2, they just choose to adapt a lenient policy towards it, they will be happy with the LCA MK-1A till LCA mk-2 arrives in 2022, LCA mk-2 is surely driven by the Navy but post 2024 LCA MK-1A won't be produced anymore and IAF will accept more deliveries of LCA MK-2. Discussions are ongoing to eventually have a fleet of around 400 LCA. MK-2 started already quite some time ago and it will be ready before INS Vishal commission. INS Vishal won't be comissioned for another 10-12 years considering they are still busy with design. As said before, INS Vikrant and Vikramaditya will carry the Mig-29K along with some LSPs and Prototypes of the N-LCA for testing.