INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

Crusader53

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MMRCA will serve for next 25 years. does it not long term for you? If you really want to think beyond that we will have Naval NGFA at that time. So i guess F-35 is out of question.

Sure in the IAF Service the MMRCA will be fine in a Strike Role for another 20 years. Yet, the MMRCA are not going to provide Air Superiority for India.

I would add that the Indian Navy with the small numbers available. Need a higher level of Superiority to defend against large numbers of Land Based Assets.

So, in another 10 years most of the Major Powers will be operating Aircraft Carriers packet with F-35's and China is likely to have a Stealthy Type of its own flying off its New Carriers. Yet, I guess India will be comfortable along with Russia flying Mig-29K's with not problem at all.........

BTW Italy with a smaller Carrier (Cavour) operating F-35B's will be far more capable. Than the IAC's operating a slightly larger number of Mig-29K's.
 

AJSINGH

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Do you want to win the next WAR or have full ToT??? Regardless, India has to take one step at a time. Even Russia will not give India full ToT and to think otherwise is niave........
dude please if you read RFP , then we always ask for TOT ,and this is a fact that Russia gives access to everything ,yankees dont and will not in the future
 

AJSINGH

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Sure in the IAF Service the MMRCA will be fine in a Strike Role for another 20 years. Yet, the MMRCA are not going to provide Air Superiority for India.

I would add that the Indian Navy with the small numbers available. Need a higher level of Superiority to defend against large numbers of Land Based Assets.

So, in another 10 years most of the Major Powers will be operating Aircraft Carriers packet with F-35's and China is likely to have a Stealthy Type of its own flying off its New Carriers. Yet, I guess India will be comfortable along with Russia flying Mig-29K's with not problem at all.........

BTW Italy with a smaller Carrier (Cavour) operating F-35B's will be far more capable. Than the IAC's operating a slightly larger number of Mig-29K's.
those major power which will field their own AC with 5th gen aircraft will not be our enemies ,and china they are along way from naval variant of 5th gen aircraft . plus like i said the problem with yankees is TOT
 

AJSINGH

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Keep dreaming...........the only experts (and I uses that loosely) that believe the PAK-FA is better than the F-35 is Dr. Kopp and Bill Sweetman. Hardly, a winning endorsement.==no+=way==
well thats your opinion , they speak sense and that too with technical proof , so if you as american ( i suppose you are) cannot digest the fact that PAK FA is better than F-35 ,then God may help you
 

AJSINGH

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AT CRUSADER53
do not forget that we will be recieving PAK FA in 2017 ,so USA air superiority ends in asia
 

Kunal Biswas

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Sure in the IAF Service the MMRCA will be fine in a Strike Role for another 20 years. Yet, the MMRCA are not going to provide Air Superiority for India.

I would add that the Indian Navy with the small numbers available. Need a higher level of Superiority to defend against large numbers of Land Based Assets.
MMRCA are multi mission fighters, they will be use in strike as well as air superiority tasks, Now that may be GripenNG, Mig, typhoon and etc..

Future Indian navy`s IAC-2 will have FGFA, Mig-29k is meant to be used on INS Vikramaditya and IAC-1..

Chinese navy is planing for only one carrier for now, and they are working on home made Su-33s!
 

AJSINGH

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At Crusade33 , i found an article on how american air superiority is ending

The debate over the F-22 Raptor has been carried out at the customary level of simplemindedness we've become used to when Congress handles military questions. Since the early '60s, the favored method of killing a military program has been to come up with an argument easily expressed in a sound bite and stick with it. This time, the sound bite was, "Why do we need two fighter planes, anyway?"

The answer is even simpler: We need two fighters because need two fighters. The historical record clearly reveals this: Every air campaign carried out with two distinct and particularly formulated fighter designs has been a success, and every attempt to do otherwise has resulted in disaster.

U.S. Air Force doctrine on fighter procurement is known as the high/low mix. The "high" component consists of a dedicated air-superiority fighter, utilizing the latest aeronautical technology, fitted with state-of the-art electronics, and carrying the most advanced air-to-air weapons. These aircraft have one mission -- to kill enemy airplanes. This is the paramount goal of a fighter force. Without it, nothing else can be accomplished. That being the case, the high-end fighter is the more expensive and complex part of the mix. They are rare assets, to be utilized accordingly.

The "low" end is encompassed by the swing-role fighter, more commonly known as the fighter-bomber. Though designed and built with slightly less technical sophistication than the air-superiority models, these aircraft fill a much wider role. They carry out interdiction missions using bombs and rockets, provide ground-support for troops, and at the same time can acquit themselves adequately in the air-to-air role if enemy fighters show up. As such, they can supplement and reinforce the air-superiority aircraft if massive air battles develop. The swing-role fighter is cheaper and more easily and quickly constructed than its haughtier brother, so there tend to be larger numbers of them.

The high-low mix was pioneered during WWII. Both the British and the U.S. stumbled onto the concept without quite realizing what they were doing. In the years before the war's outbreak, the British embarked on a crash program to build eight-gun fighters for the defense of the home islands. The premier model was the Supermarine Spitfire, one of the legendary combat aircraft of the 20th century. But the Spitfire was supplemented by the lesser-known but still capable Hawker Hurricane. The Hurricane could take on the primary German fighter, the Messerschmidt Bf -109, only with difficulty, so an ad hoc strategy developed during the Battle of Britain (August 12-September 15, 1940) in which Spitfires attacked the fighter escorts while the Hurricanes hit the slower bombers. This strategy worked well enough to force the Luftwaffe to abandon daylight raids in September 1940, denying Hermann Goering the appellation of "Tamer of Britain."

As the war went on and Spitfires appeared in more substantial numbers, the Hurricane took on the fighter-bomber role. A dedicated ground-attack version, the Hurribomber, with increased bomb load and heavy wing cannon, began operating against Rommel's Afrika Korps in 1942. Hurribombers served throughout the war North Africa, Italy, and Burma.

The U.S. backed into the high-low mix out of desperation. The frontline fighter in 1943 was the Republic P-47, an excellent aircraft with one major drawback: Its combat radius was limited to 300 miles. That meant that it could not escort bombers to Germany and back, leaving the 8th Air Force's B-17s and B-24s at the mercy of German defenses. By sheer accident, a failing attack plane, the A-35, was mated with the British Merlin engine (the same as used by the Spitfire). The result was a magical airplane -- the P-51 Mustang, a fighter capable of flying deep into Germany and back while at the same time agile enough to outfly most opponents.

As the P-51 arrived in large numbers in the U.K. in early 1944, the P-47 was shifted to the fighter-bomber role. Fitted with wing racks for rockets and bombs, the P-47 flew constant escort over Allied tank spearheads as they moved across northwest Europe into the Reich, demolishing organized armored and artillery resistance. At the same time, the Jug, as the pilots called it, could more than hold its own against enemy fighters. Whenever some sorry remnant of the Luftwaffe attacked P-47 wings (as in Operation Bodenplatte, the Luftwaffe's January 1, 1945 last stand), they often got the worst of it.

Following the war, the high-low mix was carried on into the jet age. At the outbreak of the Korean War, a superb air-superiority aircraft, the F-86 Sabre, was entering service, while two first-generation fighter jets, the F-80 Shooting Star and the F-84 Thunderjet, covered the fighter-bomber role. As the war settled into an uneasy stalemate in 1951, USAF F-86s established a barcap (barrier combat air patrol) along the Yalu River to prevent communist MiG-15s flown variously by Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean pilots from attacking U.N. forces. Not a single successful incursion was made by communist air forces during the war. In the meantime, F-80s and F-84s continually harassed North Korean and Chinese forces.

The high-low mix proved itself in both WWII and Korea. But it was abandoned during the era of specialization, the 1950s. The "century series" fighters were, excepting the F-100 Super Sabre, the pioneer supersonic fighter. The model was quickly superseded by more advanced aircraft, designed for certain specific, limited roles, with no attempt to cover either the air-superiority or fighter-bomber mission. The F-101B, the F-102, and the F-106 were high-speed interceptors, the F-105 a "fighter-bomber" designed to drop nuclear weapons, the F-104 an indescribable and dangerous oddity.

Coming into the '60s without a fighter to carry out its basic missions, the USAF was forced to purchase the F-4 Phantom II, developed on behalf of the enemy service, the U.S. Navy. While an excellent aircraft, the F-4 was in many ways the apotheosis of the fighter-bomber, too heavy and lacking the agility to fill the air-superiority role. This was discovered immediately over Vietnam, where American aircraft were hard put to match Soviet-supplied MiGs during the early years of the war. It required a suite of improved air-to-air weapons and a complete overhaul of tactics before U.S. air forces could dominate the skies in their accustomed manner.

Much of those novel tactics were the work of Major John Boyd, a vastly talented and wildly eccentric fighter pilot who in later years was to trigger a revolution in military strategy. During the mid-'60s, he was in charge of developing the USAF's new tactical fighter. This effort followed a fiasco involving the General Dynamics F-111, which might be called liberalism's attempt to build a combat aircraft. Though intended as a fighter, the production F-111 was a monster aircraft the size of a medium airliner, and just about as maneuverable. Though the F-111 eventually found its role as a precision bomber, a large hole remained where the USAF's future fighter aircraft was supposed to be. Boyd's job was to fill that hole.

At first, it appeared that Boyd would be presiding over F-111: The Sequel. General Dynamics sent him a proposal for a plane weighing no less than 60,000 lbs. Boyd sent it back outlining exactly what he expected: half the weight, powered by engines that hadn't even reached the test stage yet, and with electronics and weapons systems that nobody could quite comprehend. It was a sure formula for failure in other hands, but everything broke the Mad Major's way, with advanced engines and avionics becoming available at just the right moment. The result was the F-15 Eagle.

But Boyd was not quite satisfied. He was perfectly aware of the benefits of the high-low mix, and on his own, without permission from anyone, began development of the necessary "low"-end aircraft. Working out the design parameters to match a series of "Energy Maneuverability" curves he had formulated (in large part from reinterpreting the aircraft as a thermodynamic system), Boyd coaxed several aircraft companies to produce prototypes to compete in a flyoff. Unusually, both prototypes were successful. One became the Navy's standard fighter, the F/A-18 Hornet. The other became the F-16 Falcon (though most pilots call it the "Viper").

Together, the F-15 and F-16 stand as the most effective fighter team on record. The F-15 compiled a kill ratio of 105 kills to zero losses. While the F-16's record was only half that, it more than effectively filled the swing role as the primary high-speed attack aircraft in theaters including Serbia and Iraq. Neither aircraft ever suffered a loss in air-to-air combat.

It would appear that the high-low thesis is as well established as any military concept ever gets. All the same, we're in the process of dumping it in pursuit of false economy. To the battle cry of "who needs two fighters anyway!" the U.S. is dropping the high end of the equation -- the F-22 Raptor -- in the mistaken conviction that the low end -- the F-35 Lightning II -- can cover all the bases.

The F-22 is the most effective air-superiority weapon ever devised -- the sole current operational example of the fifth-generation fighter. With its full stealth, supersonic cruise capability, and electronics that make the Starship Enterprise look like a birchbark canoe, it is utterly unmatched as a fighter aircraft. Its kill/loss ratio is estimated at 100 to 1 and is probably much higher.

The F-35 is a good little airplane, well-fitted for the swing role. It possesses partial stealthing ("forward stealthing," which prevents an enemy from knowing it's coming), performance matching most operational fighters, and a good electronics suite. It has several minor failings -- among them limited a internal weapons carriage, rendering underwing carriage necessary (thus negating most of its stealth advantages), along with an inability to fire its air-to-air weapons at maximum speed. All the same, when matched against current fighter designs, it would probably come out on top.

But the problem is that the F-35 will not be facing current designs. Technical superiority in all fields -- and in the military more than any other -- is the most ephemeral of assets. Even as the F-22 debate winds down, Sukhoi, Russia's premier aircraft company, is preparing to produce its own fifth-generation fighter, the PAK-FA. Fast, stealthy, and with state-of-the-art electronics, the PAK-FA is known as the "Raptor killer." It will probably have even better luck with the F-35. As for China, persistent rumors have been circulating concerning tests of a new fifth-generation fighter. (Interestingly, the Chinese have adapted the high-low mix for their own fighter force even as the U.S. seems about to abandon it.)

In a fifth-generation fighter environment, current tactics utilizing long-range detection by AWACS planes, which then hand off interception to individual fighters, will no longer be feasible. You can't play that game with stealth aircraft. We will instead return to the tactics of WWII and Korea, where opposing aircraft elements hunted each other across the wide blue sky and whoever had the best eyesight struck first. In that tactical environment, piloting skill and numbers will make all the difference.

Production of the F-22 has been capped at 187. That's it as of next September, and there won't be any more. Furthermore, rule of thumb has it that at least a third of all high-performance aircraft are at any given time laid up for maintenance or refitting, which leaves us with approximately 120 F-22s ready for action at any given time. The Russians and Chinese, on the other hand, have a slaphappy habit of making more weapons than they actually need. Suppose, if things get hot, our 120 planes are facing five hundred, a thousand, or even more fifth-generation enemy fighters? (China today fields roughly 2,000 fighter aircraft.) What happens then?

We know what happens then because we've been through it before. When WWII began in the Pacific, the Japanese possessed a world-class air-superiority fighter in the Mitsubishi A6M Zero. American forces attempted to challenge the Zero with a variety of low-end, often obsolete aircraft such as the F-4F Wildcat, the P-39 Airacobra, and the P-40 Warhawk. (And that says nothing the pathetic Brewster F-2A Buffalo, which didn't even belong in the same historical epoch as the Zero.) The result was a savage, year-long battering ended only by a complete revision of tactics. It wasn't until 1943 that a crash program involving direct flyoffs against a captured Zero resulted in the F-6F Hellcat, which outmatched the Zero in all factors and at last turned the tide in our favor.

Similarly, the Soviets, with the help of the British labor government that sold them the rights to the Rolls-Royce Nene engine and the Rosenberg spy ring who helpfully provided swept-wing wind tunnel data, made a dramatic technological leap in the late '40s with the MiG-15. Over Korea, USAF pilots were forced to contend with an enemy aircraft that was as fast as theirs and more maneuverable at altitude. Only superior U.S. training kept communist air forces at bay until, almost by accident, the new model F-86E Sabre, fitted with hydraulic controls, at last overcame the MiG advantage and handed air superiority to U.N. forces.

We'll be facing such a situation again, and sooner than we'd like. One of these days, over the Taiwan Straits or Central Asia, we will learn that eternal air superiority is not guaranteed to the United States as some kind of codicil to Manifest Destiny. American air forces will inevitably suffer a whipping unlike any they've endured in decades, and American troops and sailors will have to learn how to operate in conditions where we lack air superiority, something unheard of since 1943. (Heads up, Ralph Peters!)

One of the major failings of American politics involves its short-time horizon. American voters and politicians simply cannot grasp that actions taken today can have consequences years and decades down the line, and that, in a majority of cases, there will be no second chances. Barack Obama has proven to have far more limited foresight than even the average American pol. The F-22 cancellation is a clear example of this. There will be plenty more to come.

J.R. Dunn is consulting editor of American Thinker, and will be editor of the forthcoming Military Thinker.
 

plugwater

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Sure in the IAF Service the MMRCA will be fine in a Strike Role for another 20 years. Yet, the MMRCA are not going to provide Air Superiority for India.

I would add that the Indian Navy with the small numbers available. Need a higher level of Superiority to defend against large numbers of Land Based Assets.

So, in another 10 years most of the Major Powers will be operating Aircraft Carriers packet with F-35's and China is likely to have a Stealthy Type of its own flying off its New Carriers. Yet, I guess India will be comfortable along with Russia flying Mig-29K's with not problem at all.........

BTW Italy with a smaller Carrier (Cavour) operating F-35B's will be far more capable. Than the IAC's operating a slightly larger number of Mig-29K's.
USN is using F-18 in its carriers which is not a air superiority fighter its a multi-role fighter. so why do you think we need a air superiority fighter in our carriers ? and we are not going to war with western countries any time soon.
 

Crusader53

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dude please if you read RFP , then we always ask for TOT ,and this is a fact that Russia gives access to everything ,yankees dont and will not in the future

NOBODY GIVES FULL ToT. If, you want to split hairs. I would recommend you discuss levels of ToT. Plus, which countries offer the most Technology.
 

Crusader53

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USN is using F-18 in its carriers which is not a air superiority fighter its a multi-role fighter. so why do you think we need a air superiority fighter in our carriers ? and we are not going to war with western countries any time soon.
The F/A-18 is a Strike Fighter. (Multi-Role if you like) Which, can perform many roles including "Air Superiority". As a matter of fact a number of countries use F/A-18's in the Air Superiority Role. (as do F-16's, Mig-29's, and Mirage 2000's)

As for going to war with Western Countries I agree. Yet, ones friend some times turns in ones enemies. Nonetheless, China and Pakistan are likely to have Stealthy 5th Generation Types in the coming decade. Should the Indian Navy confront them with the Mig-29K's???

It sounds like some discount that China will field such types and/or they will be inferior. Which, is usually the downfall of a country that underestimates ones likely opponent.....


Just to clear things up for some members of the Forum. While, I am an American my views are very Pro-Indian and only wish the best for its People and the Country. (I have several Indian Friends and there all good people!) Yet, I think its unwise to not take "China" seriously as a threat. My views are my own and mine alone. Yet, there is nothing wrong with being a critic. As long it is for a greater India and a more safe world.
 

Crusader53

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well thats your opinion , they speak sense and that too with technical proof , so if you as american ( i suppose you are) cannot digest the fact that PAK FA is better than F-35 ,then God may help you

Dr. Kopp has virtually no respect with in the Defense Industry and Mr. Sweetman has been recently banded for his bias reporting. Its also worth noting "neither" have access to the F-35 Program whatsoever!!! Funny, on how we are to take there expert opinion as fact.0_0


As for the PAK-FA we have no evidence to support any claims that its better than the F-35. On the otherhand the US and Lockheed Martin have decades of experience in Stealthy Designs and 5th Generation Fighters. Starting way back with the SR-71 to the F-117, F-22, and now the F-35. Plus, let's not forget several Advance AESA Radars that are in production today! What does Russia have...........With all do respect Russia is a good decade or two behind the US.

The F-35 is very likely much Stealthier than the PAK-FA. Then let's not forget about its vastly Superior Avionics Including the APG-81 AESA Radar plus EO/DAS.

As for pure performance the F-35 is equal or near the equal in many respects to a "clean" F-16 BLK 50 or F-22. (Per Lockheed Martins Chief Test Pilot for the Lightning. He was also a lead Test Pilot for the Raptor Program and knows both intimately!)

With all do respect you should consider your own digestion before you worry about mine........
 

AJSINGH

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NOBODY GIVES FULL ToT. If, you want to split hairs. I would recommend you discuss levels of ToT. Plus, which countries offer the most Technology.
russia gives access to India for eveything , can you imgine America leasing out its nuclear submarine to India , no way, yankees do want to cut ties with pakiatan. So yeh we are aksing for TOT weather you like it or not
 

AJSINGH

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Dr. Kopp has virtually no respect with in the Defense Industry and Mr. Sweetman has been recently banded for his bias reporting. Its also worth noting "neither" have access to the F-35 Program whatsoever!!! Funny, on how we are to take there expert opinion as fact.0_0


As for the PAK-FA we have no evidence to support any claims that its better than the F-35. On the otherhand the US and Lockheed Martin have decades of experience in Stealthy Designs and 5th Generation Fighters. Starting way back with the SR-71 to the F-117, F-22, and now the F-35. Plus, let's not forget several Advance AESA Radars that are in production today! What does Russia have...........With all do respect Russia is a good decade or two behind the US.

The F-35 is very likely much Stealthier than the PAK-FA. Then let's not forget about its vastly Superior Avionics Including the APG-81 AESA Radar plus EO/DAS.

As for pure performance the F-35 is equal or near the equal in many respects to a "clean" F-16 BLK 50 or F-22. (Per Lockheed Martins Chief Test Pilot for the Lightning. He was also a lead Test Pilot for the Raptor Program and knows both intimately!)

With all do respect you should consider your own digestion before you worry about mine........
you are a yankee , nobady can convince you that PAK FA will be better than F-35 and will equal -F-22A . How can you say say that F-35 is more stealthy than PAK FA,you do not know the RCS of the PAK FA, the payload,the supercruise , the extreme agility , the weapons , the thrust to weight ratio are all in the favour of PAK FA
plus if you think that DrKopp has no insight of PAK FA program then can you refute what he says about PAK FA. i think not . Russia were the pioneers ,they were the ones who detected the plasma stealth applications when they launched. Tell me one thing how can F-35 be more agile than PAK FA when PAK FA has 3-D TVC. ( sometime you have to accpet when the facts are right on your face).Not to mention many soviet scietist defected to USA and aided the stealth program for USA. I think you maybe the only person who think that russian are stupid enough to develop5th gen aircraft which will be inferior to F-35,F-22 , nowhere i mean in other forum people have said that PAK FA inferior to F-22 let alone F-35.

About Russian Stealth Program , do notice the years mentioned in the article you will know when stealth program was started
First developed by the Russians, plasma stealth technology is also known as "Active Stealth Technology". Plasma stealth is a proposed process that uses ionized gas (plasma) to reduce the radar cross section (RCS) of an aircraft. A plasma stream is injected in front of the aircraft covering the entire body of the aircraft and absorbing most of the electromagnetic energy of the radar waves, thus making the aircraft difficult to detect. There are few experimental studies of plasma's effect on RCS. One of the most interesting articles was published by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) in 1963 and described the effect of plasma on the RCS of aircraft. The article entitled "Radar cross sections of dielectric or plasma coated conducting spheres and circular cylinders" was based on the data offered by Sputnik, the first artificial satellite launched by the Soviet Union on October 4, 1957.

While trying to track Sputnik it was noticed that its electromagnetic scattering properties were different from what was expected for a conductive sphere. This was due to the satellite traveling inside of a plasma shell.While Sputnik was flying at high velocity through the ionosphere it was surrounded by a naturally-occuring plasma shell and because of it there were two separate radar reflections: the first from the surface of the satellite itself and the second from the plasma shell. If one of the reflections is greater the other one will not contribute much to the overall effect. When the two reflections have the same order of magnitude and are out of phase relative to each other cancellation occurs and the RCS becomes null. The aircraft becomes invisible to radar.

In January 1999, the Russian news agency ITAR-TASS published an interview with Doctor Anatoliy Koroteyev who talked about the plasma stealth device developed by his organization. Doctor Koroteyev was the director of the Keldysh Research Center. There have also been claims that in 2002 the Russians tested a plasma stealth device on board a Su-27 and RCS was reduced by a factor of 100.

The Keldysh Research Center has created a plasma generator that weights no more than 100 kilos, thus making it possible to be fitted on board most tactical aircraft. Current stealth technology uses radar absorbent materials (RAM) and angled surfaces that don't reflect radar waves back. This constitutes as a main drawback, since an alteration of the airframe has negative effects on the flight characteristics of these aircraft. The third generation stealth technology F-22 Raptor seems however to be an exception since it is both a fast aicraft and very maneuverable.

By using a plasma generator the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft do not suffer which in term means that the payload is increased making it more effective. The use of this technology offers the benefit of not having to carry the payload internally to be able to fool enemy radar. The Sukhoi Su-35 and the MiG-35 (both upgrades of Su-27 and MiG-29) are the first to benefit from this technology.

One of the most interesting russian fighters to benefit from the plasma stealth technology is the MiG 1.42/1.44 also known as the MFI (Mnogofunktsionalny Frontovoi Istrebitel - Multifunctional Frontline Fighter). This new aircraft is a fifth generation air-superiority fighter, a rival for the american F-22 Raptor. Both aircraft have the same supercruise capability as well as thrust vectoring for supermaneuverability (a capability to fly at supercritical angles of attack, at increased level of sustained and
available g-loads and high turn-angle rate, which require a greater thrust-to-weight ratio and improved wing aerodynamic efficiency). This aircraft may prove to be a milestone in aviation, as so many russian aircraft were before.

About ASEA radar
On the prospective fighters, says Yuri Belyy (NIIP), it will no longer be just radar, but the integrated radio-electronic system, which includes radars in several wave bands, an identification system, electronic warfare (EW) and electronic intelligence (ELINT). According to him all this is connected into the united ideology, the united concept, and will give the "synergetic combat effect".

NIIP's AESA emitting modules (MMICS) are made on basis of proved serial technology, being manufacturing on the automated producing lines. For this purpose the state ensured colossal technological rearmament of one of the Moscow enterprises - "Istok inc." (Fryazevo, Moscow district). Two product lines are under building: the line, where chips themselves are done and an assembly-line, where these chips are assembled into the microcircuits, and then they are integrated into the elements of antenna. These are the specialized micro-chip of superhigh frequencies (SHF), the monolithic integrated circuits of SHF band (MMICs). The more numerous such elements, the more powerful the radar. The quantity of modules in the antenna can reach several thousand.

The PAK-FA will have two X-Band AESA radars located on the front and back of the aircraft. These will be accompanied by L-Band radars which are thought to be located on the wing LERX sides. L-Band radars are proven to have increased effectiveness against VLO targets which are optimized only against X-Band frequencies, despite being less accurate.
Unlike the F-22 the PAK-FA will feature an IRST optical/IR search and tracking system. The IRST promises to be the best way to target stealth aircraft since regardless of the IR stealth claims made of the F-22, jet engines are fundamentally not conducive to IR invisibility. The trail of hot air behind the F-22 is likely the first thing the PAK-FA may see, perhaps as far as 25km.

Avionics

The combat avionics of the T-50 has been under development for some time, and some elements will almost certainly be installed in the Su-35 interim fighter. The main sensor will be a Tikhomorov NIIP X-band radar with active AESA antenna, which was unveiled at the latest MAKS Air Show in August 2009. The 1m-dia. antenna contains some 1,500 solid stat transmit/receive modules by NPP Pulsar, which places it in the same class as the F-22's APG-77. Tikhomorov claims an exceptional range of ~400km against a 1m² equivalent radar surface target. The radar entered bench testing in November 2008, and a flyable operational prototype will be completed by mid-2010.

In a very innovative development, the main X-band antenna will be supplemented by auxiliary L-band antennas installed in the wing inboard leading edges. In addition to the obvious IFF/SSR functions, this arrangement (which is also being offered for retrofit on the Su-27/-30 family as well as the Su-35), has a very clear anti-stealth search function. Most current stealth or semi-stealth designs - and most particularly the F-35 JSF, although not the F-22 - are optimised to reduce radar signature against X-band fire control radars as the main threat, and their low-observability features and shapings do not work as well against L-band radars. Of course, the lower the frequency the higher the wavelength the poorer the accuracy of distance and angular measurements, and thus even apart from excessive volume, weight, power and cooling requirements a fighter aircraft could not possibly rely on a main L-band system alone. However, the presence of the additional L-band antennas will provide an important early warning function against at least some low-observable targets, and it may also enable a "mini-AWACS" role. It is additionally conceivable that these antennas could also be used for the detection and disruption of sensors and digital communications systems operating in L-band, including e.g. the all-important JTIDS/MIDS/Link-16.

While the PAK FA has no functioning radar yet, it already sports the protruding head of an electro-optic IRST system in front and to the right of the cockpit's windscreen. This will maintain the excellent mixed solution (radar/IRST) used in all modern Russian fighters, event tough the IRST seeker's "ball" is at odds with the search for a reduced radar signature in the front emisphere. The decision to add the L-band antennas while maintaining the IRST reinforces the perception of the T-50 being mainly intended for air defence roles against intruding low-observable strike aircraft.

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/506/
 
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pavanvenkatesh

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russia gives access to India for eveything , can you imgine America leasing out its nuclear submarine to India , no way, yankees do want to cut ties with pakiatan. So yeh we are aksing for TOT weather you like it or not
First off i think russia does not offer complete access to any thing!! what they do is give access to modify the subsystems according to our requirment like we do in Su-30MKI but all the core components like engines,radars,avionics ,EW suites all come from russia assembled thats it if we had access to every thing we would'nt be struggling with our own fighter programme
 

AJSINGH

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First off i think russia does not offer complete access to any thing!! what they do is give access to modify the subsystems according to our requirment like we do in Su-30MKI but all the core components like engines,radars,avionics ,EW suites all come from russia assembled thats it if we had access to every thing we would'nt be struggling with our own fighter programme
we are struggling with our own fighter program is because we did not ask for russian help , yes my friend they do offer india everything, from AC to nuclear subs ,to partnership in PAK FA program
 

AJSINGH

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As for going to war with Western Countries I agree. Yet, ones friend some times turns in ones enemies. Nonetheless, China and Pakistan are likely to have Stealthy 5th Generation Types in the coming decade. Should the Indian Navy confront them with the Mig-29K's???

It sounds like some discount that China will field such types and/or they will be inferior. Which, is usually the downfall of a country that underestimates ones likely opponent.....
if china can get J-11B up and going and Su-33 naval variant ,i will be happy but all new 5th gen aircraft , i think in 2030 they would start production .
 

Kunal Biswas

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As for the PAK-FA we have no evidence to support any claims that its better than the F-35. On the otherhand the US and Lockheed Martin have decades of experience in Stealthy Designs and 5th Generation Fighters. Starting way back with the SR-71 to the F-117, F-22, and now the F-35. Plus, let's not forget several Advance AESA Radars that are in production today!
........
Well i would say FGFA have better Payload capacity..
F-35> 44,400 lb (20,100 kg)
FGFA> 26,000 kg (57,320 lb)

Better Range..
F-35> (2,220 km)
FGFA> (5,500 km)

Better Thrust.
FGFA> Powerplant: 2× New unnamed engine by NPO Saturn and FNPTS MMPP Salyut of 175 kN each
F-35> 1× Pratt & Whitney F135 afterburning turbofan 43,000 lbf (191 kN)

Hardpoints
F-35> 6× external pylons on wings with a capacity of 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) and 2 × internal bays with 2 pylons each
FGFA> 16 total, 8 internal, 8 on wings.


Beside all these specifications, We saw PAK-FA only one prototype, FGFA is not ready untill PAK-FA is ready!
Also their is no reports of PAK-FA AESA radar so you cannot compare anything, And most probably Avionics on FGFA will be supplied by HAL, Israel & French..
 

Kunal Biswas

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First off i think russia does not offer complete access to any thing!! what they do is give access to modify the subsystems according to our requirment like we do in Su-30MKI but all the core components like engines,radars,avionics ,EW suites all come from russia assembled thats it if we had access to every thing we would'nt be struggling with our own fighter programme
Engine is made in HAL facility, Avonics are supplied by Israeli , French & HAL, EW suit is Israeli and Indian...
Thats why we called it MKI..

If any country who is 98% supportive in joint collaboration is Russia and second is Israel..
 

AJSINGH

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Well i would say FGFA have better Payload capacity..
F-35> 44,400 lb (20,100 kg)
FGFA> 26,000 kg (57,320 lb)

Better Range..
F-35> (2,220 km)
FGFA> (5,500 km)

Better Thrust.
FGFA> Powerplant: 2× New unnamed engine by NPO Saturn and FNPTS MMPP Salyut of 175 kN each
F-35> 1× Pratt & Whitney F135 afterburning turbofan 43,000 lbf (191 kN)

Hardpoints
F-35> 6× external pylons on wings with a capacity of 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) and 2 × internal bays with 2 pylons each
FGFA> 16 total, 8 internal, 8 on wings.


Beside all these specifications, We saw PAK-FA only one prototype, FGFA is not ready untill PAK-FA is ready!
Also their is no reports of PAK-FA AESA radar so you cannot compare anything, And most probably Avionics on FGFA will be supplied by HAL, Israel & French..
no use explaining this to Crusader53 , he does not seem to understand
 

Crusader53

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we are struggling with our own fighter program is because we did not ask for russian help , yes my friend they do offer india everything, from AC to nuclear subs ,to partnership in PAK FA program

Much of the technology provided from outside sources did not come from Russia. Especially, such Hight Tech stuff like Composites!
 

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