India's Air Defense System and its Capabilities

[cobra commando]

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[Hari Sud]

How many guns are there to upgrade? How many can be done in in a year.

 

[ezsasa]

How many guns are there to upgrade? How many can be done in in a year.

I remember reading somewhere that there are about 1100 guns.

No idea in second question.

 

[Abhi9]

TOR-M2KM Kupol Almaz Antey short range air defense missile system TATA 2036C 6x6 truck chassis

 

[cobra commando]

Defexpo India 2016: CONTROP Announces the Supply of Hundreds of Optronic Sensor Systems for the Indian Army

March 21st, 2016; CONTROP Precision Technologies Ltd. a company specializing in advanced electro-optics (EO) and infrared (IR) defense and homeland security solutions – announces the supply of hundreds FTA Optronic Sensor Systems for the Air Defense Systems program for the Indian Army. Following extensive product assessment, the FTA was chosen by the Indian Army to be part of an Air Defense Systems program with the modern upgrade of the L-70 Air Defense Gun, providing day/night anti-aircraft protection by means of the advanced automatic air tracking system. The FTA cameras will be supplied throughout 2016 – 2017. The unique FTA is a ruggedized day/ night optronic sensor system, which includes the FOX-250, a high performance Thermal Imaging Camera and a high performance color CCD Day Camera, each with a continuous optical zoom lens. CONTROP's VP Marketing, Mr. Johnny Carni, added that "the Indian Army chose our FTA System following very successful field trials and is enthusiastic due to the outstanding performance of these optronic systems in harsh environmental conditions". In addition, CONTROP has supplied dozens of FOX thermal imaging cameras to a large Public Sector Undertaking (PSU) systems' integrator in India, as part of the new Naval Fire Control Systems Programs. These FOX thermal imaging cameras, which include CONTROP's proprietary Continuous Zoom Lens, have been interfaced with a Weapon Station and with Fire Control Radar.
http://www.controp.com/category/press-releases/defexpo-indian-army.aspx

 

[Kunal Biswas]

During trails at LEH ..

L&Ts upgraded airdefence gun

 

[republic_roi97]

During trails at LEH ..

Wait a minute, Is that automated ?? A CIWS kind of system ??

 

[Prashant12]

Wait a minute, Is that automated ?? A CIWS kind of system ??

Upgraded ZU-23-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2

 

[republic_roi97]

Upgraded ZU-23-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2

Thanks, I searched about it on the net just a while ago. Probably, it might have become more effective with those systems and upgrades.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

200 of these guns are already upgraded by both L&T and BEL ..

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[rrrajesh.yadav]

Very interesting article on Efficacy of Air Defence Artillery... I couldn't find any separate thread or active discussion on this topic in this forum.. On the base of this article Air Defence Artillery indeed played a important role... Please I would love see some valuable discussions on this.. Thank you


And the direct link http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2017/02/01/efficacy-air-defence-artillery-india-pakistan-wars/

 

[Vijyes]

I am concerned about the slow paced development of BMD systems. SAM is not a big deal. Barak-8 can be deployed in large numbers or even Akash SAM will work fine. Aircraft and cruise missiles are not that hard to target due to slower speed (mach 1 at cruise).

What is really hard is ballistic missile or supersonic Cruise missiles like Brahmos. Luckily very few enemies of India have Brahmos type missile. So, that leaves us to worry only about Ballistic missiles. At present, our BMD is 2 layered : PAD and AAD. Both are unfortunately not upto the mark as of now and are yet to be further developed.

Unlike many people saying, it is not necessary to protect all cities with a single layer or 2 layers if they are developed. Merely putting in a single layer AAD (or the cheapest missile defence (cruise+ballistic) of medium range on the coast to protect from submarine launched missiles and 1 layer of PAD towards chinese borders and 2-3 layers (S400+PAD+AAD) against Pakistan borders should be sufficient. If missiles can't enter Indian airspace from any direction, they definitely can't hit India either. In addition, large number of cheap Akash SAM and cheap AAA should be deployed. The best thing about this is that there is no need to keep huge number of independent radars for every city but integrate the airspace radars which are anyways needed to protect airspace. It will also give iron dome type protection. The launchers and short range missiles aren't that expensive if it is indigenous. The coastal threat being low due to smaller number of submarine missiles with Pakistan, we can also afford to have fewer missiles deployed, saving costs without compromising security.

 

[Adioz]

I am concerned about the slow paced development of BMD systems. SAM is not a big deal. Barak-8 can be deployed in large numbers or even Akash SAM will work fine. Aircraft and cruise missiles are not that hard to target due to slower speed (mach 1 at cruise).

What is really hard is ballistic missile or supersonic Cruise missiles like Brahmos. Luckily very few enemies of India have Brahmos type missile. So, that leaves us to worry only about Ballistic missiles. At present, our BMD is 2 layered : PAD and AAD. Both are unfortunately not upto the mark as of now and are yet to be further developed.

Unlike many people saying, it is not necessary to protect all cities with a single layer or 2 layers if they are developed. Merely putting in a single layer AAD (or the cheapest missile defence (cruise+ballistic) of medium range on the coast to protect from submarine launched missiles and 1 layer of PAD towards chinese borders and 2-3 layers (S400+PAD+AAD) against Pakistan borders should be sufficient. If missiles can't enter Indian airspace from any direction, they definitely can't hit India either. In addition, large number of cheap Akash SAM and cheap AAA should be deployed. The best thing about this is that there is no need to keep huge number of independent radars for every city but integrate the airspace radars which are anyways needed to protect airspace. It will also give iron dome type protection. The launchers and short range missiles aren't that expensive if it is indigenous. The coastal threat being low due to smaller number of submarine missiles with Pakistan, we can also afford to have fewer missiles deployed, saving costs without compromising security.

There is a lot I learned after joining DFI. Look at this:-

Dude, this plan you just laid out is ideal. This simply means that it cannot be achieved. Keep in mind that it is ideal air -defence but not ideal for the country.
A small, rich country with a high threat perception is the only one that can justify the money spent.
A more reallistic proposition would be:-
1. ABM defence for top cities (keep in mind that DRDO is trying to integrate AAD and PAD into a single missile)
2. Multilayered SAMs complemented by AAAs and MANPADs for forward troops and 2-tier SAM cover for supply routes.
3. Multilayered SAMs for airbases.
4. Various other SAM sites to plug the gap.
5. No need to deploy special air defence assets for individual cities. They'll be covered by the grid stated above.
Multilayered SAMs include: Barak 8 LRSAM, Aakash MRSAM, Maitri QRSAM.
2 tier SAMs include: Barak 8 and Aakash SAMs
CIWS should be used sparingly where a major city or installation is under direct threat from an MLRS or enemy artillery. These should be moved according to enemy deployment.

I posted this on my 5th day at DFI. Now, it seems nonsensical to me. Meaning that I learnt a lot.

The solution you put forward has quite a few holes in it IMHO. Try reading Indian BMD thread. You'll figure out a lot.

Here is a recent post of mine on the same topic. I daresay, I'll be laughing at this one 2 years down the line:-

I am very confused by this nomenclature. This is what I understand:

Current scenario
Navy
SRSAM: Barak 1, Maitri
LRSAM: Barak 8
Very LRSAM: Barak 8ER?

Air Force
SRSAM: No need, maybe they'll get Maitri
MRSAM: Akash
LRSAM: S-400

Army:
SRSAM: SA-19, SA-13, SA-8, Spyder, Maitri
MRSAM: S-125, SA-6, Akash


There should be one standard in the future for air defence:
MANPAD
AA, AAA
QRSAM (<15km) [Maitri]
SRSAM (15km-40km) [Akash]
MRSAM (40km-70km) [Barak-8]
LRSAM (70km-180km) [Barak-8ER, S-400]
TAD(Theater Air Defence) SAM (>250km) [S-400]

Then each force should get:-

Army:-
MANPAD
AA, AAA
QRSAM (Maitri)
SRSAM (Akash)
MRSAM (Barak-8)

Air Force:-
MANPAD
SRSAM (Akash)
MRSAM (Barak-8)
LRSAM (S-400)
TADSAM (S-400)
BMD

Navy:-
MANPAD
QRSAM (Maitri) [Deploy on all ships]
MRSAM (Barak-8) [Deploy on frigates]
LRSAM (Barak-8ER) [Deploy on all destroyers and bigger ships]
TADSAM (Develop one as a spin-off from indigenous BMD project. Also make naval version of BMD) [Deploy on Project-18 Destroyers, or make cruisers and deploy on them]

Note: BMD should use phase II missiles (AD-1 and AD-2)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This thread is dedicated to AD related issues, plenty of information here ..

I couldn't find any separate thread or active discussion on this topic in this forum..

 

[tharun]

Anyone heard of Vityaz Missile System..it had range of 12-120km
And 12 missiles per launcher

 

[SajeevJino]

Anyone heard of Vityaz Missile System..it had range of 12-120km
And 12 missiles per launcher

hmm

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/the-vityaz-s-300-mr-sam.52048/

 

[tharun]

Why can't we use 76 mm or 127/64 mm naval guns in fixed position and protect the air fields,other assets.
Because the range of these guns vary from 30-48km.

 

[sthf]

Why can't we use 76 mm or 127/64 mm naval guns in fixed position and protect the air fields,other assets.
Because the range of these guns vary from 30-48km.

Static air defence was outdated even in Vietnam war era and that is not how range works in AD.

But this is what fits the bill for a 21st century AAA.

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/draco.htm

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Punj Lloyd upgraded the existing ZU-23 2B Gun by replacing the manual laying system with a rugged Electro Optical Fire Control System (EOFCS) for the Corps of Army Air Defence. The EOFCS gives the gun the capability to engage at aerial targets during day and night in plains, deserts or in mountains. The Gun has been modified with a day and night camera, laser range finder and a digital fire control computer. The upgraded-gun can engage NATO standard aerial targets, upto a range of 2500 m flying at 300m/s.

Picture from 2013

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The system has been evolved under this config in 2016.

 

[SajeevJino]

Both L 70 and ZSU 22 poised to get such digital systems, Punj Lylod and L&T running to upgrade those system, which serves till the new C-RAM system procured

But still, they dint's get the contract to start working on the Upgrade program

Or..I missed some updates