Indian Special Forces (archived)

[aditya g]

Please check your facts.

Garuds have following missions:

- force protection
- sead
- casr
- laser designation
- counter terror ops

Look at it this way, if the task of special forces is to strike behind the enemy lines, then Garud are not special forces.

The primary task of Garuds is to secure AF's assets & securing bases so that others can do their job.

 

[Prashant Sharma]

CSAR and SEAD is very much the Garuds mandate.
SEAD isn't always done from the air. It's done from the ground as well.
Imagine the potential of a special forces team inserted in close proximity to a SAM site.

Attacking Radar stations from the ground, siezing airfields.. target illumination and Combat control of strike packages is all part of the Garuds mandate and training.

I beg to differ w u & stand my ground.

SEAD ops is one of the major jobs of Air Force.

Most of the air defence systems are deep inside enemy territory not on the periphery as u suggest.

As far as some observation post or some radars are concerned, we have Para SFs "mandated" for these tasks.

U r also insinuating that capabilities of Garuds are at par w Para SFs which is incorrect. Para SFs are by far more capable than anyone we have.

If ever we have to strike behind enemy lines for anything we will rely on Para SFs.

The scope of CASR & SEAD ops are so limited that we can write them off.

 

[armyofhind]

I beg to differ w u & stand my ground.

SEAD ops is one of the major jobs of Air Force.

Most of the air defence systems are deep inside enemy territory not on the periphery as u suggest.

As far as some observation post or some radars are concerned, we have Para SFs "mandated" for these tasks.

U r also insinuating that capabilities of Garuds are at par w Para SFs which is incorrect. Para SFs are by far more capable than anyone we have.

If ever we have to strike behind enemy lines for anything we will rely on Para SFs.

The scope of CASR & SEAD ops are so limited that we can write them off.

One observation to refute your point.
1991 Gulf War.
Special Forces-CCT teams inserted deep behind enemy lines to take out SCUDS.

No reason to say that cannot happen in our context.

You don't raise and train a special forces unit to just protect assets.
Common Sense.

 

[Prashant Sharma]

One observation to refute your point.
1991 Gulf War.
Special Forces-CCT teams inserted deep behind enemy lines to take out SCUDS.

No reason to say that cannot happen in our context.

You don't raise and train a special forces unit to just protect assets.
Common Sense.

I agree with you. We don't raise SFs for defensive roles, which is common sense.

To do these kind of jobs, we have trained Para SFs.
For example, see Pathankot attack, where we had specific info & someone in Govt decided to give the task to Garuds & NSGs.

Result I need not explain. Eventually called army which has mastered CI/CT ops.

 

[rkhanna]

Look at it this way, if the task of special forces is to strike behind the enemy lines, then Garud are not special forces.

The primary task of Garuds is to secure AF's assets & securing bases so that others can do their jo

The Garud has the following primary Tasks

1. SEAD - IS VERY MUCH in GARUD Mandate - Supression of Enemy Air Defence - Behind enemy lines- Performed this role beautifully at REDFLAG and earned praise for their performance throughout the excercise
@Prashant Sharma - You can google the above

2. Combat Controllers / C-ATC - Calling in Airstrikes while imbedded with other Infantry/Combat Units. Probably the toughest of Garuds task- Includes playing Air Traffic Controllers when you have multiple Aviation assets in a theater all pounting the same target. Imagine one man on the ground co-ordinating Airstrikes, Drone Strikes, Transport Helos , Attack helos. He will control the stacking order of the strikes, which aircraft comes in when, from which direction and will utilize what kind of ordnance when and where. He needs to know enemy locations, positions, Aircraft fuel limitations and load, Weapons load and refuel/turnaround times and do crazy math a million miles a minute while ensuring friendly forces dont get hit.
The above INCLUDES jumping in with the Paras to take an enemy airfield/airbase and get it up and running in working condition for allied assets to utilize. Or Setting up a FOB Airstrip / FRAP incase of a conflict

Combat Controlling is more than Simply Lazer Designating a Target. IA Ghatak Platoons can do that well enough.

3. C-SAR - Combat Search And Rescue

4. Counter Insurgency / Sabotage of FOB and Critical AF Installations

Post Pathankot the powers that be (and like the Army) the conventional commanders in India have yet to understand and utlize the strategic nature of SOF units. This translate to lack of formal policy / command etc etc. Today even in Kashmir more CO's will call in SF units to end something quickly and make themselves look good. Overtime miss-utilization eventually trickles down to training.'

To do these kind of jobs, we have trained Para SFs.
For example, see Pathankot attack, where we had specific info & someone in Govt decided to give the task to Garuds & NSGs.

Result I need not explain. Eventually called army which has mastered CI/CT ops.

Sorry many things wrong with the above statement. Garud was called in to protect the capital Assets at pathankhot. THey are far more suited to doing this task than the Para's. Its what they train for.

Pathankhot had fears of a siege and needing a Hostage Rescue Capability. NSG is FAR more suited for this task. Pathankhot had a need to deploy a unit to do Bomb Disposal. again NSG Far better suited for this task than the Para's

Each unit has its strenghts and weaknesses. And an area like Pathankhot required a meeting of all.

 

[Bornubus]

Now all the major Air Bases and important military, Nuclear and other imp installations have a permanent deployment of 51 Special Action Group (51 SAG)

Imagine what would've happen if a Fidayeen attack takes place on a Nuclear installations. A small walled city in itself !


=============================


"None but 51" @ an important


@ghost
@reddevil9

 

[Prashant Sharma]

The Garud has the following primary Tasks

1. SEAD - IS VERY MUCH in GARUD Mandate - Supression of Enemy Air Defence - Behind enemy lines- Performed this role beautifully at REDFLAG and earned praise for their performance throughout the excercise
@Prashant Sharma - You can google the above

2. Combat Controllers / C-ATC - Calling in Airstrikes while imbedded with other Infantry/Combat Units. Probably the toughest of Garuds task- Includes playing Air Traffic Controllers when you have multiple Aviation assets in a theater all pounting the same target. Imagine one man on the ground co-ordinating Airstrikes, Drone Strikes, Transport Helos , Attack helos. He will control the stacking order of the strikes, which aircraft comes in when, from which direction and will utilize what kind of ordnance when and where. He needs to know enemy locations, positions, Aircraft fuel limitations and load, Weapons load and refuel/turnaround times and do crazy math a million miles a minute while ensuring friendly forces dont get hit.
The above INCLUDES jumping in with the Paras to take an enemy airfield/airbase and get it up and running in working condition for allied assets to utilize. Or Setting up a FOB Airstrip / FRAP incase of a conflict

Combat Controlling is more than Simply Lazer Designating a Target. IA Ghatak Platoons can do that well enough.

3. C-SAR - Combat Search And Rescue

4. Counter Insurgency / Sabotage of FOB and Critical AF Installations

I do not entirely disagree on Garud performing very limited SEAD ops when required.

Most probably they will b engaged only when Para SFs are not available as they are more suited for the job.

My father participated in Red flag so I know a bit more than what's theoretically available or what's written about it.

In Pathankot I do feel not engaging army from the start was a mistake. NSG were not required. Though I agree & I maintain primary task of Garuds is to protect our air assets & that's why they were called.

 

[rkhanna]

I do not entirely disagree on Garud performing very limited SEAD ops when required.

Most probably they will b engaged only when Para SFs are not available as they are more suited for the job

IMO in a SEAD mission Para's should be second choice to the Garud's. Para's would anyways be spread thin in a conflict doing a 100 other things equally important.

The formation documents for Garud has SEAD in its mission charter. (i have seen it)

Army SF will launch missions in conjunction of overall Army Strategy. Garud will launch missions in support of AF strategy. Together they will be mated and will pursue Overall Military Strategy.

In India we are too used to mixing and matching and jalta hai and while it is fine for a while it has started permeating everything we do.

 

[abingdonboy]

No, CSAR & SEAD ops is not their job. They are not mandated for that.
I again say, their job is restricted to securing assets.

SEAD ops is IAFs job, the pilots r trained for that. AFAIK garuds aren't trained to fly.

CSAR is 100% Garud's job, base protection is NOT their job other than at a few strategic locations but even then they are only there in limited numbers to act as a QRT, the DSC and IAF police secure IAF installations. There is no way 1000 or even 2000 Garuds could secure every IAF installation.

Garuds are a special force unit, tasked with and trained in pretty much everything every other SF unit is with a special emphasis on FAC and CSAR. The IAF will even be procuring dedicated CSAR helos for them in the future.

 

[abingdonboy]

Result I need not explain. Eventually called army which has mastered CI/CT ops.

Actual nonsense, NSG remained in charge and handled the entire operation from start to finish.

The IA were already on the ground and were tasked with securing the hugh value areas (aircraft pens).

If you are saying the IA relieved the NSG in Pathankot because they are the masters of CT then the NSG may as well be disbanded now because clearly there is no use for them.

 

[abingdonboy]

Now all the major Air Bases and important military, Nuclear and other imp installations have a permanent deployment of 51 Special Action Group (51 SAG)

No doubt they have exercised there but to permantly deploy a contingent of 51 SAG at all such places as well as at all NSG hubs would be impossible, the SAG is simply not large enough and it would be counter productive to do so. The SAG need to remain a relatively small unit made up of very well trained and equipped operators, expanding their ranks too much or having them deployed in such a manner is only going to water down their capabilities.

Air BAses should be protected by IAF and nuclear facilities by CISF, that is why they exist!

 

[Prashant Sharma]

Actual nonsense, NSG remained in charge and handled the entire operation from start to finish.

The IA were already on the ground and were tasked with securing the hugh value areas (aircraft pens).

If you are saying the IA relieved the NSG in Pathankot because they are the masters of CT then the NSG may as well be disbanded now because clearly there is no use for them.

Don't blabber anything if u know nothing. RM accepted that army wasn't taken in the loop from start. It was only after they realised their mistake, army was called in.

Army don't secure air assets as u insinuate, Garuds do that. Army went for the kill instead.

If u think that primary task of Garuds is not to secure assets but SEAD ops & their r 1000s of assets they can't secure then I m not in the debate. U can say whatever u want.

 

[abingdonboy]

Don't blabber anything if u know nothing. RM accepted that army wasn't taken in the loop from start

UTTER CRAP. COAS openly said it was a joint decsion to deploy NSG and he had been in the loop from the outset.

Army don't secure air assets as u insinuate, Garuds do that. Army went for the kill instead.

NOPE, not a single report indicates that. NSG and Garuds took on the terrorists only, some army assets (like MPVs) were called upon by them but that was it.

 

[ghost]

An exclusive photo of Special Group coming soon.

===================================================================================

 

[Bornubus]

No doubt they have exercised there but to permantly deploy a contingent of 51 SAG at all such places as well as at all NSG hubs would be impossible, the SAG is simply not large enough and it would be counter productive to do so. The SAG need to remain a relatively small unit made up of very well trained and equipped operators, expanding their ranks too much or having them deployed in such a manner is only going to water down their capabilities.

Air BAses should be protected by IAF and nuclear facilities by CISF, that is why they exist!

Sure they are exercising in the above pic.


_________________

 

[Prashant Sharma]

UTTER CRAP. COAS openly said it was a joint decsion to deploy NSG and he had been in the loop from the outset.

NOPE, not a single report indicates that. NSG and Garuds took on the terrorists only, some army assets (like MPVs) were called upon by them but that was it.

Why r u getting hyper. I just said that ops under NSG was a mistake.

Anyways, u chose not to reply to my rest of the argument ( your wish).

But u should speak carefully. What part of my reply made u believe that I said only NSG took on the terrorist. Army was involved but at later stage.
Anyways read this article.

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/pathankot-attack-a-terror-strike-some-hard-truths/

 

[abingdonboy]

An exclusive photo of Special Group coming soon.

===================================================================================

Let's see SG in full combat gear

 

[ghost]

Let's see SG in full combat gear

You will.But do remember they have a variety of gear.

 

[rkhanna]

You will.But do remember they have a variety of gear.

Full combat gear for SG is an oxymoron. lol when they operated under TSD they wore jeans and grew a beard.

But this was SG with their "combat gear" from the early 2000s

 

[Bornubus]

Let's see SG in full combat gear

Including the wall penetrating Radar for the first time.

@ghost