Indian Ocean Developments
- Thread starter S.A.T.A
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Officer of Engineers
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As I've stated before, don't be too hard on your people when that accident comes ... and it will come.
You will notice no one gloated over the MING accident and they have just as much experience as you claim.
This is neither here nor there. You claim you are ready. I know different. You will lose a crew and there is nothing you can say to prevent it.
Mainly because we have all lost a crew to our pride ... and your pride is speaking louder than your claim of professionalism.
You want to know the difference between your posts and mine on this issue? I'm scared. You're proud. And that is exactly what you need to learn.
11 super carriers, 10 light carriers, over 70 guided missile (Aegis) warships in the cruiser weight range, 53 all nuclear submarines including SSN, SSBN and SSGN, The US recon satellites, GPS, long range maritime patrol aircraft, gen 4.5+ aircraft and soon gen 5 planes, support vessels allowing the fleet to stay at sea as long as needed, and a very potent landing force.
What ever it fells it needs there at the moment.
Building relationship with India, relationship with Pakistan, virtual domination of the GCC
Safeguarding trade and US interests with the implied (and used) threat that what it safeguards today, it can block tommorrow.
Like a team of 5 year old pee-wee American football players vs the Dallas Cowboys.
p2prada
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That's almost the entire USN. Yusuf particularly asked about USN presence in the IOR.
USN operates carriers in the Pacific, Atlantic, Mediterranean and the Arctic.
I doubt USN operates 11 ACs and 10 LHDs in the IOR.
This is for all usa fanatics
remember india got independence only in 1947 whereas usa is free for almost 200 years so 4 times
india started developing only after 2000 and we see the growth in 9 years inspite of economic crisis
india is only nation with good moral values,secular ,democratic country so no one can compare with us
Usa has reached threshold and it wont increase from now but india is a growing country and you will realize it in 2050 like that and also us is in the state of bankrupt
remember india got independence only in 1947 whereas usa is free for almost 200 years so 4 times
india started developing only after 2000 and we see the growth in 9 years inspite of economic crisis
india is only nation with good moral values,secular ,democratic country so no one can compare with us
Usa has reached threshold and it wont increase from now but india is a growing country and you will realize it in 2050 like that and also us is in the state of bankrupt
they have few fighters in that island(ior region) and usa concentrate on their coastline,pacific and atlantic so only the remaining will be here
They cant put all ships here and put usa in trouble
may be one or two groups may patrol ior in shift manner
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Colonel,
Why must we have to have accidents to be good.
Can't we learn from other's mistakes?
I am sure the Chinese did not construct their submarines from scratch. They must have got technology from elsewhere, legal or otherwise (the US claims that they are stealing the US technology, but my question is if you are slack, then they will!) and I am sure they would have also 'stolen' the issues why there are accidents in submarines and rectified them for their own submarines!
Why must we have to have accidents to be good.
Can't we learn from other's mistakes?
I am sure the Chinese did not construct their submarines from scratch. They must have got technology from elsewhere, legal or otherwise (the US claims that they are stealing the US technology, but my question is if you are slack, then they will!) and I am sure they would have also 'stolen' the issues why there are accidents in submarines and rectified them for their own submarines!
p2prada
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They have a market capitalization that Indian companies cannot hope to enjoy. The Japanese, SK companies control a large stake in American and European markets along with their own. And they did wonders in the 60s and 70s. Now, the growth in Japan and SK has saturated. That's why their high exchange rates. They reached heir highest point and are now going down. In another 50 years, there will be very few companies left which will compete with India and China.
For a country like India, the exchange rate matters a lot since any investment they need to make in foreign shores will be significantly less as compared to the amount invested domestically. That's the reason you don't see huge investments by Indian companies, save a few like TATA, compared to what Japanese and SK companies can make.
All our companies make all their money in India. The profits from offshore companies is marginal compared to the revenue generated in the country.
Look at the context before jumping the gun. Compare China's industrial output to Sweden and Israel. Someone was comparing China's industrial output to India's industrial output as reason to compare military capabilities.
Wow. A professional comedian.
Looks like your post needs to be sent to the joke thread.
Enough to irk the Chinese too. China News: Indian Ocean Naval Symposium | China Digital Times (CDT)
Yes you can learn from others mistakes, but you won't learn everything. Nothing teaches like tragedy, and nothing is as hard to really grasp mentally as the fact that tragedy can occur at any time. Reality demands experience or it cannot be seen fully.
Since the end of WWII
UK- 4 subs lost Truculent, Affary, Sidon, Artemis. Plus HMS SSBN Vangaurd collided with a French SSBN and HMS Trafalgar run aground
France- 4 boats lost and at least 3 more accidents plus the SSBN Triomphant collision with Vanguard.
Israel- 1 boat lost- Dakar
US- At least 13 accidents with 4 subs lost Cochino, Stickleback, Thresher, Scorpion.
The bigger the sub fleet, the smaller the chance you won't have a deadly accident.
p2prada
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If we don't be hard on our people then they will commit the same mistakes. Do you know how much flak the Airforce has received after the Su-30 crash? It happened because the pilot accidentally turned off the fly by wire.
Nobody gloats over accidents. They just happen.
I did not claim we were ready. Like I said, accidents are bound to happen and nobody can do nothing to prevent "accidents." But, being professional and sinking your sub don't go hand in hand.
We will speak of pride after a couple of decades. If we have an accident then I will give you the liberty of saying "I told you so." That is considering I don't end up dead in some accident beforehand.
I don't have the habit of living in fear. In India the probability of death is many times higher than in Canada. 8 of my friends have died in accidents in the last 2 years and 19 of them have been in accidents that involved toppling and pile ups. 8 dead on bikes. 6 injured when a SUV toppled and 13(including me) in a Tempo Traveler.
I myself was involved in an accident where our Tempo Traveler toppled and almost rolled over a hill. We luckily hit a tree and stopped.
Too many students I know have drowned in rivers and seas too.
jaganpjames
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I appreciate your nationalism.. but it shouldnt be so much that you are blinded from the reality...
america is generation ahead of us in every field you take.. what we are trying to do is reinventing the wheel.. we are not in any field being pioneers.. we are only doing catching up .. our mentality has to change ..
what india or china is doing is try to do/ make things cheaper than when its prepared in the developed world.. but that margin of difference in production cost is going to be over in another 20 yrs down the line.. we dont have a product to say as completly made in india ?? or do we !! i havent seen anything ..
what america has always done is do/use things efficiently and thats what even today they are doing... saving cost of production .. by getting things done from countries with cheap labour .. but the ultimate control is in the hand of the american organisations..
sorry dude .. our attitue is "chaltha hey.. " and do mind it.... , we can progress only when that is changed.. with accountablity being at the forefront and time bound execution of works(does it really happen in india??) .. and thats only when the tide is going to change.. till then its going to be only yeah we willl be biggest largest etc etc by 2050 .. yeah by population we will be the largest by then..
sorry i straied away from the topic of discussion...
No ones getting out of this alive, the mortality rate is 100% no matter where you live.
Common guys you can do more than this. Whatever assets at that time has to with stand the assault for a few hours that's it and they are more than capable of.because reinforcements will be on their way with in a short notice.
It perfectly matters, In US you have better roads, In India we dont have better Roads, In the Road near to my office, you can see atleast 4 Accidents daily.... Sometime you can see Spot-out's.
This has been the case for 4 years now.... no great improvements till now. The probabilty of me getting into this is much higher.
If bombs explode in America it is something like once in a life time activity.
But bombings in Indian Cities is not new us, And no Indian can assure that there will be no bombings in Indian Cities for the rest of the year...... There is a ocean difference between India and the West.
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Indian Ocean: Ruling the Waves / ISN
After decades of investment and planning, India has finally acquired the ability to indigenously build and operate a nuclear-powered submarine, a feat accomplished by only five other countries, Harsh V Pant comments for ISN Security Watch.
By Harsh V Pant for ISN Security Watch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The INS Arihant, as the nuclear submarine is called, will now undergo up to two years of testing and sea trials before being accepted for service by the Indian Navy.
Indian naval expansion is being undertaken with an eye on China, and Arihant notwithstanding, India has nautical miles to go before it can catch up with its powerful neighbor, which has made some significant advances in the waters surrounding India.
Just a few months back, China’s growing naval capability was on full display as it paraded its nuclear-powered submarines for the first time as part of the celebrations to mark the 60th anniversary of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) navy. Gone is the reticence of yore when China was not ready to even admit that it had such capabilities. Chinese commanders are now openly talking about the need for nuclear submarines to safeguard the nation’s interests, and the Chinese navy, once the weakest of the three services, is now the focus of attention of the military modernization program that is being pursued with utmost seriousness.
China’s navy is now considered the third-largest in the world, behind only the US and Russia and superior to the Indian navy in both qualitative and quantitative terms. The PLA navy has traditionally been a coastal force, and China has had a continental outlook to security. But with a rise in its economic might since the 1980s, Chinese interests have expanded and acquired a maritime orientation with intent to project power into the Indian Ocean.
China is investing far greater resources in the modernization of its armed forces in general and its navy in particular than India seems either willing to undertake or capable of sustaining at present. China’s increasingly sophisticated submarine fleet could eventually be one of the world’s largest, and with a rapid accretion in its capabilities, including submarines, ballistic missiles and GPS-blocking technology, some are suggesting that China will increasingly have the capacity to challenge the US.
Senior Chinese officials have indicated that China would be ready to build an aircraft carrier by the end of the decade as it is seen as being indispensable to protecting Chinese interests in oceans. Such intent to develop carrier capability marks a shift away from devoting the bulk of the PLA’s modernization drive to the goal of capturing Taiwan.
With a rise in China’s economic and political prowess, there has also been a commensurate growth in its profile in the Indian Ocean region. China is acquiring naval bases along the crucial choke-points in the Indian Ocean, not only to serve its economic interests but also to enhance its strategic presence in the region.
China realizes that its maritime strength will give it the strategic leverage that it needs to emerge as the regional hegemon and a potential superpower - and there is enough evidence to suggest that China is comprehensively building up its maritime power in all dimensions.
It is China’s growing dependence on maritime space and resources that is reflected in the country's aspiration to expand its influence and to ultimately dominate the strategic environment of the Indian Ocean region. China’s growing reliance on bases across the Indian Ocean region is a response to its perceived vulnerability, given the logistical constraints that it faces due to the distance of the Indian Ocean waters from its own area of operation.
Yet, China is consolidating power over the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean with an eye on India - something that comes out clearly in a secret memorandum issued by the PLA General Logistic Department director: “We can no longer accept the Indian Ocean as only an ocean of the Indians [...]. We are taking armed conflicts in the region into account.”
Given the immense geographical advantages that India enjoys in the Indian Ocean, China will find it very challenging to exert as much sway in the Indian Ocean as India can. But all the steps that China will take to protect and enhance its interests in the Indian Ocean region will generate apprehensions in India about Beijing’s real intentions, thereby engendering a classic security dilemma between the two Asian giants.
Tensions are inherent in such an evolving strategic relationship as was underlined in an incident earlier this year when an Indian kilo class submarine and Chinese warships, on their way to the Gulf of Aden to patrol the pirate-infested waters, reportedly engaged in rounds of manoeuvring as they tried to test for weaknesses in each others’ sonar systems. The Chinese media reported that its warships forced the Indian submarine to the surface, which was strongly denied by the Indian navy.
Unless managed carefully, the potential for such incidents turning serious in the future remains high, especially as Sino-Indian naval competition is likely to intensify with the Indian and Chinese navies operating far from their shores. The battle to rule the waves in the Indian Ocean may have just begun.
After decades of investment and planning, India has finally acquired the ability to indigenously build and operate a nuclear-powered submarine, a feat accomplished by only five other countries, Harsh V Pant comments for ISN Security Watch.
By Harsh V Pant for ISN Security Watch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The INS Arihant, as the nuclear submarine is called, will now undergo up to two years of testing and sea trials before being accepted for service by the Indian Navy.
Indian naval expansion is being undertaken with an eye on China, and Arihant notwithstanding, India has nautical miles to go before it can catch up with its powerful neighbor, which has made some significant advances in the waters surrounding India.
Just a few months back, China’s growing naval capability was on full display as it paraded its nuclear-powered submarines for the first time as part of the celebrations to mark the 60th anniversary of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) navy. Gone is the reticence of yore when China was not ready to even admit that it had such capabilities. Chinese commanders are now openly talking about the need for nuclear submarines to safeguard the nation’s interests, and the Chinese navy, once the weakest of the three services, is now the focus of attention of the military modernization program that is being pursued with utmost seriousness.
China’s navy is now considered the third-largest in the world, behind only the US and Russia and superior to the Indian navy in both qualitative and quantitative terms. The PLA navy has traditionally been a coastal force, and China has had a continental outlook to security. But with a rise in its economic might since the 1980s, Chinese interests have expanded and acquired a maritime orientation with intent to project power into the Indian Ocean.
China is investing far greater resources in the modernization of its armed forces in general and its navy in particular than India seems either willing to undertake or capable of sustaining at present. China’s increasingly sophisticated submarine fleet could eventually be one of the world’s largest, and with a rapid accretion in its capabilities, including submarines, ballistic missiles and GPS-blocking technology, some are suggesting that China will increasingly have the capacity to challenge the US.
Senior Chinese officials have indicated that China would be ready to build an aircraft carrier by the end of the decade as it is seen as being indispensable to protecting Chinese interests in oceans. Such intent to develop carrier capability marks a shift away from devoting the bulk of the PLA’s modernization drive to the goal of capturing Taiwan.
With a rise in China’s economic and political prowess, there has also been a commensurate growth in its profile in the Indian Ocean region. China is acquiring naval bases along the crucial choke-points in the Indian Ocean, not only to serve its economic interests but also to enhance its strategic presence in the region.
China realizes that its maritime strength will give it the strategic leverage that it needs to emerge as the regional hegemon and a potential superpower - and there is enough evidence to suggest that China is comprehensively building up its maritime power in all dimensions.
It is China’s growing dependence on maritime space and resources that is reflected in the country's aspiration to expand its influence and to ultimately dominate the strategic environment of the Indian Ocean region. China’s growing reliance on bases across the Indian Ocean region is a response to its perceived vulnerability, given the logistical constraints that it faces due to the distance of the Indian Ocean waters from its own area of operation.
Yet, China is consolidating power over the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean with an eye on India - something that comes out clearly in a secret memorandum issued by the PLA General Logistic Department director: “We can no longer accept the Indian Ocean as only an ocean of the Indians [...]. We are taking armed conflicts in the region into account.”
Given the immense geographical advantages that India enjoys in the Indian Ocean, China will find it very challenging to exert as much sway in the Indian Ocean as India can. But all the steps that China will take to protect and enhance its interests in the Indian Ocean region will generate apprehensions in India about Beijing’s real intentions, thereby engendering a classic security dilemma between the two Asian giants.
Tensions are inherent in such an evolving strategic relationship as was underlined in an incident earlier this year when an Indian kilo class submarine and Chinese warships, on their way to the Gulf of Aden to patrol the pirate-infested waters, reportedly engaged in rounds of manoeuvring as they tried to test for weaknesses in each others’ sonar systems. The Chinese media reported that its warships forced the Indian submarine to the surface, which was strongly denied by the Indian navy.
Unless managed carefully, the potential for such incidents turning serious in the future remains high, especially as Sino-Indian naval competition is likely to intensify with the Indian and Chinese navies operating far from their shores. The battle to rule the waves in the Indian Ocean may have just begun.
Tamil
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in our generation cant do then the next will do, first let we start it sir, then our followup generation will finish. if Indians can't then who can. make a change, change will come soon.
first step make our navy king of seas, then we rule the ocean. i want more and more youngster will join our defense service to serve, after my BE i surly going to join Air Force. i have a pledge to serve my nation
Note: Its my personal Wish not today's fact. if im wrong correct me...tnx
