Indian Ocean Developments

[Soham]

Ankur, grow up. We are reaching milestones of co-operation with the USN with every passing year, and there's no issue of "arm twisting" or "can't be trusted". No Navy in the world can challenge the might of the USN for many decades.
If USN withdraws, the trade routes will never be as secure as they currently are. IN cannot guard the entire IOR.

There's no point resisting USN(because we can't). Joining hands is much better.

 

[johnee]

Ankur, 'we are at the mercy' of US in more ways than one(including IOR). And we are not alone, most of the world is 'at the mercy of' of US. Convergence of interests is temporary and we must strive to attain the capability of increasing the degree of our dominance of IOR. But the elephant in the room is that USN is and will remain the most powerful navy for some time to come(if not for a long time to come), thus there is no other way but to cooperate and work on mutually agreeable projects.

 

[Kinshuk]

Dominance is never the key when you are only at the stage of development. I would say Indian Navy has done a great job by increasing its influence in the Indian Ocean Region, apart from IOR, India has also gained steady influence in the Pacific Ocean Region. US is not the only country with which India is co-operating, IN has had naval exercises with countries from all over the world, at the same time signing different agreements like one with Japan in October 2008 for joint naval patrolling in the Asia-Pacific region.

 

[johnee]

Dominance is never the key when you are only at the stage of development. I would say Indian Navy has done a great job by increasing its influence in the Indian Ocean Region, apart from IOR, India has also gained steady influence in the Pacific Ocean Region. US is not the only country with which India is co-operating, IN has had naval exercises with countries from all over the world, at the same time signing different agreements like one with Japan in October 2008 for joint naval patrolling in the Asia-Pacific region.

I agree. But the eventual goal of IN, I hope, is the complete dominance of IOR, its our backyard at the end of the day. So, right now, we are not there and are 'at the mercy' of USN. Of course, better words could be used to describe the situation but nothing wrong to describe it as Ankur did.

 

[Kinshuk]

I agree. But the eventual goal of IN, I hope, is the complete dominance of IOR, its our backyard at the end of the day. So, right now, we are not there and are 'at the mercy' of USN. Of course, better words could be used to describe the situation but nothing wrong to describe it as Ankur did.

Thanks,

Yes, End goal is dominance of IOR, but at the same time against whom? We need stronger presence in the Region to have retaliation advantage against hostile neighbors, not US, RUSSIA etc. And for the same purpose, we would be advocating a lot of developing in this decade. In simple words and to put it explicitly, we should be able to dominate IOR against China and Pakistan.

Regards,

KS

 

[johnee]

Thanks,

Yes, End goal is dominance of IOR, but at the same time against whom? We need stronger presence in the Region to have retaliation advantage against hostile neighbors, not US, RUSSIA etc. And for the same purpose, we would be advocating a lot of developing in this decade. In simple words and to put it explicitly, we should be able to dominate IOR against China and Pakistan.

Regards,

KS

Kinshuk, Pakistan and China are our current adversaries. Alliances are temporary. Intensions are temporary. Capabilities are permanent. We need to be able to dominate IOR completely and absolutely to an extent where without our wish no other country can operate in this region. Then, we may choose to allow some countries to operate here and disist some from doing so, depending on our interests.

 

[Kinshuk]

Kinshuk, Pakistan and China are our current adversaries. Alliances are temporary. Intensions are temporary. Capabilities are permanent. We need to be able to dominate IOR completely and absolutely to an extent where without our wish no other country can operate in this region. Then, we may choose to allow some countries to operate here and disist some from doing so, depending on our interests.

In that case, It is not just the might of the navy that can define our dominance, but Dominance of India as a whole in the international Arena. Just having a strong navy wouldn't stop US from declining its influence in IOR. We should be able to diplomatically handle the situation and gain confidence by showcasing our importance and role in IOR.

In short, we should be able to justify it to the world.

Thanks and Regards,

KS

 

[johnee]

In that case, It is not just the might of the navy that can define our dominance, but Dominance of India as a whole in the international Arena. Just having a strong navy wouldn't stop US from declining its influence in IOR. We should be able to diplomatically handle the situation and gain confidence by showcasing our importance and role in IOR.

In short, we should be able to justify it to the world.

Thanks and Regards,

KS

Agreed. Also, we need leadership which has b@lls and is ready to punish those who hurt the interests of India. Fear of retribution is important as well.

 

[Yusuf]

Domination of the IOR cannot be viewed just from the strength of the navy. It also depends on the strength of the air force. Because of our location, our AF can easily cover the IOR with its fighters if the need arises. Our base in the Andamans is of very high strategic importance. With the MKIs and its range, we can easily enhance our power projection in the IOR. China is not going to be threat to us in the near future or in the long run as India builds its capability esp with regards to ASW systems. China would not dare to embark on any anti India aggressive patrol of its surface combatants. Its the subs that are crucial and India has to take care of that.

 

[bengalraider]

NO ONE i repeat NO ONE can dominate any ocean without having friendly ports of call around all of it's shores we are not going anywhere until we have the east Africans, the Australians and the Arabs as allies even if only peripherally. We are getting there with alliances inked with Mauritius and the Maldives but a lot more needs to be done. No nation in history has been able to forcibly take superpower or dominant power status the same has always been bestowed upon the nation in question by their allies and adversaries. We shall only be the dominant power in the IOR when the Chinese say so not before that.

 

[johnee]

Yusuf and BR, good points. BTW, wanted know, what would be the impact of 'pearl or strings' ports that China seems to be building?

 

[ajtr]

Ruling IOR and neutralizing Deigo Garcia would be the ultimate dream of Indian navy....ah dreams...

 

[ajtr]

I think india do have ports of call around like in madagasscar,oman indonesia,Maldives,

 

[johnee]

Guys, just saw the wiki for Deigo Garcia:

wiki says:

Diego García is a coral atoll and the largest island in terms of land area, of the Chagos Archipelago. It is part of the British Indian Ocean Territory. The island is located in the Indian Ocean, about 1,600 km (1,000 mi) south of the southern coast of India.[3] The closest other countries to Diego Garcia are Sri Lanka and Maldives.

In the 1960s, the Chagos archipelago was secretly leased to the United Kingdom and detached from Mauritius with the intention of expelling its entire population and establishing a military base. In 1971 the United Kingdom and United States entered an agreement under which the latter would set up a military base in Diego Garcia.

Since then, the United Kingdom enforced the highly controversial depopulation of Diego Garcia, forcing the deportation of all 2,000 inhabitants of the island, who were descendants of African slaves and Hindu labourers brought to the islands by the French in the 18th century, to the surrounding islands, including Mauritius, located 1,200 miles away. In their place, a joint British-American military base was established.

A map of 'British Indian Ocean' according to wiki:

Now, why is that place called 'British' Indian Ocean, hain? What has UK to do with it, now or are we still living in colonial age?

Also, who does this Deigo Garcia originally belong to? How can UK still be its owners? and how justified is the US-UK agreement? The modern day shuper power and the erstwhile colonial master jointly depopulated the Island forcefully. What were the Human right groups and ilk doing?

 

[Armand2REP]

I don't even see why UK is of mention here when France has far more presence in the IOC than they ever will. We have bases in UAE, Djibouti, La Renion and Mayotte with these being bolstered with the closure of West African facilities to boost our fight against Somali piracy. We even have bases in the southern regions with TAAF and Terre Adelle. It isn't too far to get from French Polynesia to the Western IOR either. No single country has more bases ringing the IOR than France. India will have the strongest navy, just sign a basing agreement with France and they will have all the logistics they need.

 

[Yusuf]

Johnee, the strings of pearl as far as i see is nothing but a good strategy by China to beat any future sanctions from the international community or India in particular by way of restricting container and oil shipments. It is not going to be bases where the Chinese are going to get their warships to. At least not yet and may be not in the next 25 years or so.

 

[ankur]

but what about hainan islands? i think deployment of JL-2 icbm armed subs positioned there will pose a threat to indian land mass.

 

[Yusuf]

The land based ICBMs in tibet also covers india. No big deal. What we need is to keep chinese boats off our region so that they are not in any position to disrupt our shipping

 

[ankur]

china is also developing the new anti-ship ballistic missile having ballistic path and a cruise missile like terminal phase reportedly based on it's DF-21 missile.though it's primary objective as i think is to attack USN carrier strike groups but don't u think the same missile with improvements in it's range and accuracy in near future can pose a serious threat to IN surface combatants ships?

 

[Yusuf]

a ship moving at 30 knots and you launch a missile 3000 kms and hit it accurately? I have my doubts. The weapon is primarily meant for US carriers in south china sea in a potential conflict over taiwan. the range shortens down then I guess so maybe they could target a moving ship.