Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Gessler]

Ya'll Nibbiars the people who are making fun of this don't have any idea that's this is not a small complex but has an area of 13 lakhs Sq. Ft. Including the Vayu Bhavan on the other side of the road.

From stables to this buildings.

View attachment 116847View attachment 116848

Arey bhai problem is not about size, but about why each service has to have its own HQ instead of joint HQ like Pentagon.

Abhi toh bolrahe the sab log ki jointmanship jointmanship...kahan hai jointmanship?

 

[ladder]

This must be the replacement for the crane, which was destroyed during cyclone few years ago.

Yes, the photos are a few months old. The Goliath crane has already been commissioned.

 

[kamaal]

Look at the amount of free space there. LoL. It's so big that i can build a two storey house and can also add few dozens of extra VLS for air defence.

View attachment 116716

Each weapon system occupies extra space, due to variety of asm, sam and as rockets. We are not targeting annihilation of our enemy. Those rockets can be easily replaced with 16 extra sam, making it a more secure destroyer capable of defending carriers.
Or those rockets can be replaced with 16 brahmos making it more deadly ship, capable of annihilating any chinese threat.
IN is just not targeting this at the moment.

 

[Haldilal]

Arey bhai problem is not about size, but about why each service has to have its own HQ instead of joint HQ like Pentagon.

Abhi toh bolrahe the sab log ki jointmanship jointmanship...kahan hai jointmanship?

Ya'll Nibbiars joint man ship kal tak to Stables kein office the aab 75 years ke baad name office mile hai Jara thearo. Aap ko bhaut jaldi hai.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

If not posted,

BHEL to Supply Upgraded Main Guns for Indian Navy Frigates//Talwar class

New Delhi; September 28: In a major boost to Defence Production under the ‘Make in India’ initiative and towards achieving self-reliance in the critical field of Defence equipment, Goa Shipyard has placed a maiden order on Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) for supply of an upgraded Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM), the Main gun onboard most Warships of the Indian Navy.

The order envisages supply, installation and commissioning of the entire system – Upgraded SRGM and accessories for Triput Class Frigates of the Indian Navy, which will be manufactured by the Haridwar unit of BHEL.

View attachment 116872


The upgraded SRGM is a state-of-the-art weapon system having additional features such as capability to manage different types of ammunition to engage fast, manoeuvring and non-manoeuvring, radio controlled targets. The upgraded SRGM has the capability to fire advanced Ammunition with higher range and programmable ammunition.

Already posted multiple times mate

 

[Hindu Nationalist]

 

[Gessler]

V.2 after taking into account the inputs by several members here, plus making more additions.

34 Major Surface Combatants

• 4 x Project 15B Visakhapatnam-class -- Destroyer
• 3 x Project 15A Kolkata-class -- Destroyer
• 3 x Either/or Project 15 Delhi-class SLEP or Project 18 NGD (1 to 1 replacement possible) -- Destroyer
• 7 x Project 17A Nilgiri-class -- Frigate
• 3 x Project 17 Shivalik-class -- Frigate
• 10 x Talwar/Krivak-II/Adm. Grigorovich-class -- Frigate
• 4 x Project 28 Kamorta-class -- Ocean-going Corvette

52 Minor Surface Combatants

• 7 x NGC -- Corvette
• 6 x NGMV -- Corvette
• 16 x Shallow-water ASW -- Littoral Corvette
• 11 x NGOPV -- Ocean-going OPV
• 4 x Saryu-class -- Ocean-going OPV
• 8 x NG-MCMV -- Minesweeper

2 Aircraft Carriers

• 1 x Vikramaditya -- STOBAR
• 1 x Project 71 Vikrant -- STOBAR

16 Amphibious Warfare Platforms

• 2 x MRSV -- LHD
• 8 x Mk.4 -- LCU
• 1 x Jalashwa -- LPD
• 3 x Shardul-class -- LST
• 2 x Magar-class -- LST

13 Nuclear Submarines

• 3 x Arihant-class -- SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
• 1 x S4* class -- SSBN
• 3 x S5 class -- SSBN
• 6 x Project 75A/Project 76 -- SSN

12 Diesel Submarines

• 6 x Project 75 Kalvari-class -- SSK (later retrofitted to become SSP)
• 6 x Project 75I class -- SSP

9 Support Ships

• 5 x FSS -- Oiler/Fleet Support
• 2 x Deepak-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Aditya-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Komandarm Fedko/Jyoti -- Oiler

17 Special Vessels

• 1 x Dhruv -- MRIS
• 1 x Anvesh -- MRIS
• 4 x GRSE-class -- Hydrographic Survey (likely 4 x more at later stage)
• 1 x Makar-class -- Survey Catamaran
• 2 x DSV -- Diving Support Vessel
• 5 x DSC -- Diving Support Craft
• 2 x DSAR 500L -- Deep Submarine Rescue
• 1 x Astradhani -- Torpedo Recovery

Everyone is once again free to contribute/suggest changes & corrections. IN programs are a chore to effectively keep track of...for example till the point I sat down for this I was sure as sunrise that we had 1 more Torpedo recovery vessel in construction, apart from INS Astradhani that's already in service. Turns out, there isn't any such program.

V.3 after NGD numbers became clearer, LHD requirement came back to 4 etc.

36-37 Major Surface Combatants

• 5-6 x Project 18 NGD-class -- Destroyer
• 4 x Project 15B Visakhapatnam-class -- Destroyer
• 3 x Project 15A Kolkata-class -- Destroyer
• 7 x Project 17A Nilgiri-class -- Frigate
• 3 x Project 17 Shivalik-class -- Frigate
• 10 x Talwar/Krivak-II/Adm. Grigorovich-class -- Frigate
• 4 x Project 28 Kamorta-class -- Ocean-going Corvette

52 Minor Surface Combatants

• 7 x NGC -- Corvette
• 6 x NGMV -- Corvette
• 16 x Shallow-water ASW -- Littoral Corvette
• 11 x NGOPV -- Ocean-going OPV
• 4 x Saryu-class -- Ocean-going OPV
• 8 x NG-MCMV -- Minesweeper

2 Aircraft Carriers

• 1 x Vikramaditya -- STOBAR
• 1 x Project 71 Vikrant -- STOBAR

18 Amphibious Warfare Platforms

• 4 x MRSV -- LHD
• 8 x Mk.4 -- LCU
• 1 x Jalashwa -- LPD
• 3 x Shardul-class -- LST
• 2 x Magar-class -- LST

13-14 Nuclear Submarines

• 2 x Arihant-class -- SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
• 2 x Arihant Stretch-class -- SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
• 3-4 x S5 class -- SSBN
• 6 x Project 75A class -- SSN

14 Diesel Submarines

• 6 x Project 75 Kalvari-class -- SSK (later retrofitted to become SSP)
• 6 x Project 75I class -- SSP
• 2 x SOV -- SSC/Midget Sub

9 Support Ships

• 5 x FSS -- Oiler/Fleet Support
• 2 x Deepak-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Aditya-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Komandarm Fedko/Jyoti -- Oiler

17 Special Vessels

• 1 x Dhruv -- MRIS
• 1 x Anvesh -- MRIS
• 4 x GRSE-class -- Hydrographic Survey (likely 4 x more at later stage)
• 1 x Makar-class -- Survey Catamaran
• 2 x DSV -- Diving Support Vessel
• 5 x DSC -- Diving Support Craft
• 2 x DSAR 500L -- Deep Submarine Rescue
• 1 x Astradhani -- Torpedo Recovery

90-91 fighting ships (88-89 surface combatants, 2 carriers), 18 amphibs, 27-28 subsurface combatants (including 2 x SOVs), 9 fleet oilers and 17 special/support vessels.

Still no word on NGF numbers so haven't included. Most likely it will be replacing the earliest batches of Talwars when it comes in mid-2030s.

 

[swapcv]

V.3 after NGD numbers became clearer, LHD requirement came back to 4 etc.

36-37 Major Surface Combatants

• 5-6 x Project 18 NGD-class -- Destroyer
• 4 x Project 15B Visakhapatnam-class -- Destroyer
• 3 x Project 15A Kolkata-class -- Destroyer
• 7 x Project 17A Nilgiri-class -- Frigate
• 3 x Project 17 Shivalik-class -- Frigate
• 10 x Talwar/Krivak-II/Adm. Grigorovich-class -- Frigate
• 4 x Project 28 Kamorta-class -- Ocean-going Corvette

52 Minor Surface Combatants

• 7 x NGC -- Corvette
• 6 x NGMV -- Corvette
• 16 x Shallow-water ASW -- Littoral Corvette
• 11 x NGOPV -- Ocean-going OPV
• 4 x Saryu-class -- Ocean-going OPV
• 8 x NG-MCMV -- Minesweeper

2 Aircraft Carriers

• 1 x Vikramaditya -- STOBAR
• 1 x Project 71 Vikrant -- STOBAR

18 Amphibious Warfare Platforms

• 4 x MRSV -- LHD
• 8 x Mk.4 -- LCU
• 1 x Jalashwa -- LPD
• 3 x Shardul-class -- LST
• 2 x Magar-class -- LST

13-14 Nuclear Submarines

• 2 x Arihant-class -- SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
• 2 x Arihant Stretch-class -- SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
• 3-4 x S5 class -- SSBN
• 6 x Project 75A class -- SSN

14 Diesel Submarines

• 6 x Project 75 Kalvari-class -- SSK (later retrofitted to become SSP)
• 6 x Project 75I class -- SSP
• 2 x SOV -- SSC/Midget Sub

9 Support Ships

• 5 x FSS -- Oiler/Fleet Support
• 2 x Deepak-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Aditya-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Komandarm Fedko/Jyoti -- Oiler

17 Special Vessels

• 1 x Dhruv -- MRIS
• 1 x Anvesh -- MRIS
• 4 x GRSE-class -- Hydrographic Survey (likely 4 x more at later stage)
• 1 x Makar-class -- Survey Catamaran
• 2 x DSV -- Diving Support Vessel
• 5 x DSC -- Diving Support Craft
• 2 x DSAR 500L -- Deep Submarine Rescue
• 1 x Astradhani -- Torpedo Recovery

90-91 fighting ships (88-89 surface combatants, 2 carriers), 18 amphibs, 27-28 subsurface combatants (including 2 x SOVs), 9 fleet oilers and 17 special/support vessels.

Still no word on NGF numbers so haven't included. Most likely it will be replacing the earliest batches of Talwars when it comes in mid-2030s.

How much of an increase in budget (either in Billions of USD or a percentage of our GDP) would be needed to increase the size of the entire force from 161-163 ships in total to a force of about 200-250 ships?

 

[Akula]

V.3 after NGD numbers became clearer, LHD requirement came back to 4 etc.

36-37 Major Surface Combatants

• 5-6 x Project 18 NGD-class -- Destroyer
• 4 x Project 15B Visakhapatnam-class -- Destroyer
• 3 x Project 15A Kolkata-class -- Destroyer
• 7 x Project 17A Nilgiri-class -- Frigate
• 3 x Project 17 Shivalik-class -- Frigate
• 10 x Talwar/Krivak-II/Adm. Grigorovich-class -- Frigate
• 4 x Project 28 Kamorta-class -- Ocean-going Corvette

52 Minor Surface Combatants

• 7 x NGC -- Corvette
• 6 x NGMV -- Corvette
• 16 x Shallow-water ASW -- Littoral Corvette
• 11 x NGOPV -- Ocean-going OPV
• 4 x Saryu-class -- Ocean-going OPV
• 8 x NG-MCMV -- Minesweeper

2 Aircraft Carriers

• 1 x Vikramaditya -- STOBAR
• 1 x Project 71 Vikrant -- STOBAR

18 Amphibious Warfare Platforms

• 4 x MRSV -- LHD
• 8 x Mk.4 -- LCU
• 1 x Jalashwa -- LPD
• 3 x Shardul-class -- LST
• 2 x Magar-class -- LST

13-14 Nuclear Submarines

• 2 x Arihant-class -- SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
• 2 x Arihant Stretch-class -- SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
• 3-4 x S5 class -- SSBN
• 6 x Project 75A class -- SSN

14 Diesel Submarines

• 6 x Project 75 Kalvari-class -- SSK (later retrofitted to become SSP)
• 6 x Project 75I class -- SSP
• 2 x SOV -- SSC/Midget Sub

9 Support Ships

• 5 x FSS -- Oiler/Fleet Support
• 2 x Deepak-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Aditya-class -- Oiler
• 1 x Komandarm Fedko/Jyoti -- Oiler

17 Special Vessels

• 1 x Dhruv -- MRIS
• 1 x Anvesh -- MRIS
• 4 x GRSE-class -- Hydrographic Survey (likely 4 x more at later stage)
• 1 x Makar-class -- Survey Catamaran
• 2 x DSV -- Diving Support Vessel
• 5 x DSC -- Diving Support Craft
• 2 x DSAR 500L -- Deep Submarine Rescue
• 1 x Astradhani -- Torpedo Recovery

90-91 fighting ships (88-89 surface combatants, 2 carriers), 18 amphibs, 27-28 subsurface combatants (including 2 x SOVs), 9 fleet oilers and 17 special/support vessels.

Still no word on NGF numbers so haven't included. Most likely it will be replacing the earliest batches of Talwars when it comes in mid-2030s.

In most areas we are just replacing old ships, not adding new ones(exception:Frigates).

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

In most areas we are just replacing old ships, not adding new ones(exception:Frigates).

NGD will be new addition. Destroyer fleet will grow because of them.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I remember that after 26/11, there was huge hype created about Navy modernization. A goal was set about acheiving a 200 ship Navy by 2020. Now recently, they have shifted the 200 ship target to 2030.

Meanwhile, China is already a 330+ ship Navy and aspiring to be a 500+ ship Navy by 2030-35.

 

[Gessler]

How much of an increase in budget (either in Billions of USD or a percentage of our GDP) would be needed to increase the size of the entire force from 161-163 ships in total to a force of about 200-250 ships?

More than budget, what's necessary is optimization. For example, why limit the construction of DDGs to just one yard? Why not bring yards like L&T Kattupalli into the mix? At any given day Kattupalli is a far more efficient yard than any DPSU.

Additionally, the DPSUs themselves should be divested and turned into Privately-held & managed companies. Air India can prove as a good model for how to go about doing that process.

Unless such optimizations are done, it would be quite pointless to increase budgets.

In most areas we are just replacing old ships, not adding new ones(exception:Frigates).

That's what the numbers I've written show.

NGD will be new addition. Destroyer fleet will grow because of them.

For the longest time IN had 8 destroyers (5 Rajputs & 3 Delhis).

For foreseeable future this will become 10 (3 delhi, 3 kolkata, 4 vizag).

Post-2030, it will become 12-13.

But of course there are other considerations too besides numbers...for example a P-17A frigate is far far superior in terms of capability & seakeeping to any Delhi or Rajput.

Personally, I wish we abandon the Delhi lineage with P-15B. A clean sheet NGD for carrier task force A2/AD while increasing numbers of P-17A to 14 or so by on-boarding L&T Kattupalli as a 3rd shipyard building the type.

Unless there's going to be a serious shift in DDG-FFG roles (along with shift toward MT30), the P17A itself is the perfect baseline platform. Incremental improvements to that design via P17B, C should keep us in good shape till 2050 even.

We should probably tap into the IEP solution being developed for the US Navy's Constellation-class FFG (which uses LM2500) in that case.

 

[Gessler]

First P15B destroyer just delivered to #IndianNavy. Not to mention the cost, some people were naive to think that P15A was similar as 052C and P15B was similar as 055, but the overall performance of the #P15B is the similiar as 052C only, especially poor air defense capability.

Looks like a Wumao troll. Copy pasting from tweets by other Wumao trolls.


Barak-8 and MFSTAR is poor air defence capability LOL While the crappy S-300 copies & Shtil copies are outstanding

 

[UnderFingy]

First P15B destroyer just delivered to #IndianNavy. Not to mention the cost, some people were naive to think that P15A was similar as 052C and P15B was similar as 055, but the overall performance of the #P15B is the similiar as 052C only, especially poor air defense capability.

Introduce yourself in the new member section first.

 

[Akula]

Looks like a Wumao troll. Copy pasting from tweets by other Wumao trolls.


Barak-8 and MFSTAR is poor air defence capability LOL While the crappy S-300 copies & Shtil copies are outstanding

AESA radar on P-15B is a joke for them.

 

[swapcv]

More than budget, what's necessary is optimization. For example, why limit the construction of DDGs to just one yard? Why not bring yards like L&T Kattupalli into the mix? At any given day Kattupalli is a far more efficient yard than any DPSU.

Additionally, the DPSUs themselves should be divested and turned into Privately-held & managed companies. Air India can prove as a good model for how to go about doing that process.

Unless such optimizations are done, it would be quite pointless to increase budgets.



That's what the numbers I've written show.



For the longest time IN had 8 destroyers (5 Rajputs & 3 Delhis).

For foreseeable future this will become 10 (3 delhi, 3 kolkata, 4 vizag).

Post-2030, it will become 12-13.

But of course there are other considerations too besides numbers...for example a P-17A frigate is far far superior in terms of capability & seakeeping to any Delhi or Rajput.

Personally, I wish we abandon the Delhi lineage with P-15B. A clean sheet NGD for carrier task force A2/AD while increasing numbers of P-17A to 14 or so by on-boarding L&T Kattupalli as a 3rd shipyard building the type.

Unless there's going to be a serious shift in DDG-FFG roles (along with shift toward MT30), the P17A itself is the perfect baseline platform. Incremental improvements to that design via P17B, C should keep us in good shape till 2050 even.

We should probably tap into the IEP solution being developed for the US Navy's Constellation-class FFG (which uses LM2500) in that case.

Have to agree with the optimization thing, and also we need specialist Shipyards as well, like how the Russians and Americans go about. Have one Shipyard specialize in capital ships like Carriers and Amphibs such as a LHD/LPD and even large auxiliaries like Replenishment Tankers/Dry Cargo ships, Have atleast two yards become DDG/FFG specialists, and two for Subs be it either Diesel-electric or Nuclear, and then parcel out smaller vessels like Corvettes/OPV's, FAC's to other shipyards to speed up delivery times.

 

[flanker99]

More than budget, what's necessary is optimization. For example, why limit the construction of DDGs to just one yard? Why not bring yards like L&T Kattupalli into the mix? At any given day Kattupalli is a far more efficient yard than any DPSU.

Additionally, the DPSUs themselves should be divested and turned into Privately-held & managed companies. Air India can prove as a good model for how to go about doing that process.

Think instead of just divestment govt should also look at combining multiple shipyards of the same coast into a single entity.For example 1 yard could focus on building the fully furnished blocks while the other assembles

 

[rohit b3]

Looks like a Wumao troll. Copy pasting from tweets by other Wumao trolls.


Barak-8 and MFSTAR is poor air defence capability LOL While the crappy S-300 copies & Shtil copies are outstanding

Talwar Class ~ Type 054A
Shivalik Class ~ Type052C
Kolkata Class ~ Type052D
Vishakapatnam Class >~ Type052D (maybe provided Barak 8ER are equipped)
Project 18 ~ Type 055

Type052C is Shivalik's equivalent. Both dont posses multi function AESA radars. Shivalik has an edge with Anti-ship and ASW roles. Type052C has an edge with Air defence role. Shivalik has hanger for 2 Helicopters, Type 052C has for one. And Shivalik has much higher range/endurance compared to Type 052C.

 

[shiphone]

Talwar Class ~ Type 054A
Shivalik Class ~ Type052C
Kolkata Class ~ Type052D
Vishakapatnam Class >~ Type052D (maybe provided Barak 8ER are equipped)
Project 18 ~ Type 055

Type052C is Shivalik's equivalent. Both dont posses multi function AESA radars. Shivalik has an edge with Anti-ship and ASW roles. Type052C has an edge with Air defence role. Shivalik has hanger for 2 Helicopters, Type 052C has for one. And Shivalik has much higher range/endurance compared to Type 052C.

Type052C is Shivalik's equivalent.

there are two type052Bs which are under MLU now....this is so called Universal DDG in PLAN Fleet Planning
of the time.

dont posses multi function AESA radars

052C is the standard AAW DDG in the fleet. and first carrier of Type 346 serial radar..lol

And Shivalik has much higher range/endurance compared to Type 052C

another indian style baseless claim...I'm afraid you don't know what the 052B/C/D's endurance.
all Type 052 varients applied Combined diesel or gas (CODOG) propulsion which is the only 'type' in PLA fleet.
I think you should know what your P17/17A's propulsion system is...

 

[Sir pe tapla]

Which MRSAM is Vishakapatnam equipped with?