Indian diplomat arrested, handcuffed in US for visa fraud

asianobserve

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This is the usual argument you put forward. That GOI should be blamed for everything.
No. If you only read the previous posts you would have known that I agree that the failure to notify the Indian side of the arrest is a violation of the VCCR and more importantly, I agree that a special arrangement should have been made on her arrest just to give importance to the special relationship between Indian and the US (but I don't agree that the arrest per se was illegal).

What I'm arguing at length however is the legality of the case against her and the arrest. I'm also pointing out that the outrage in this case is a product of a huge misunderstanding brought about by the callous playing with public sensitivities about affronts to Indian pride. Hey this is election time in India? Which is irresponsible and dangerous.


And from these replies it is evident how you think of Indians. You clearly are of the opinion consciously or sub-consciously that Indians don't have enough IQ to understand the happenings of the world and couldn't differentiate the propaganda of the govt if they have misled us. Ofcourse you can present the argument how wrong I was thinking but that doesn't change the fact how you look at us from the arguments you make.
I'm of the opinion that a lot of Indians are easily offended and that's not very mature. But I also pointed out in my earlier posts that I noticed that there are more Indians agreeing with the case against Khobragade.


Let me repeat it once again for you. Since you are already familiar that this is not the first case against Indian diplomats, you should try to understand why there is a huge discontent among Indian public only over this incident and not the previous ones.
I don't think the Indian public were sufficiently notified by GOI of the previous maid issues of your consuls in New York. It is clear from the comments of a lot of you that you have never thought long and hard about the previous incidents. Otherwise, you would not feel too surprised and taken aback now with the case against Khobragade.


The whole outrage of the indian public is because she is strip and cavity searched. You have carefully neglected this aspect despite being repeatedly shown the direction.
She was strip searched but not "cavity searched." I agree with you that she should not have been subjected to being strip searched.
 

pmaitra

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Here is the form that one has to fill in and sign to get a diplomatic passport.
Link: Diplomatic/ Official Passport : Apply in Person : Fresh/Reissue of Passport | Passport Seva

The maid has also signed it and is, therefore, bound by the rules therein.
5. This is certified that the visit has been approved by the competent authorities, and the period of deputation will be treated as Government of India/State Government duty and he/she shall draw pay and allowances in India.
The maid has signed this document, and therefore, has no right to contravene this agreement, or go to any other court that is incompetent to handle this case.

The US courts have no jurisdiction on this case and is only acting as a hostage taker in this case.
 

asianobserve

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The second contract was signed in India prior to her coming to the US, so GoI will only recognize that contract. This is irrelevant, because, the US VISA stamped on an red passport makes the maid a GoI employee (regardless of what happens in India), and thus, US wage laws of not apply.
Why do you keep on insisting that she is not a GOI employee? Where is her employment contract with GOI? There is no proof to this and in fact neither the lawyers of Khobragade or the GOI is claiming this. The color of her passport is irrelevant.
 

aerokan

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I think he understands the cause of outrage. I have explained it to him and he hasn't countered me on that. He even acknowledged that in one of his posts. All of his other posts might not relate specifically to that, but let him have a voice.
He won't counter the valid points. He willfully ignores. He hasn't countered my straightforward questions with straightforward answers. Just only with obfuscated circular repetitive statements unrelated to the question. I have warned him before of this especially related to GOI and politicians propaganda and he willfully ignored. If you ask questions like "what is the distance between earth and moon?", he would reply like "We must bring Jupiter in between earth and moon to measure the distortion of mass". Anyways since you made a call... I will leave it at that.
 

asianobserve

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Here is the form that one has to fill in and sign to get a diplomatic passport.
Link: Diplomatic/ Official Passport : Apply in Person : Fresh/Reissue of Passport | Passport Seva

The maid has also signed it and is, therefore, bound by the rules therein.

The maid has signed this document, and therefore, has no right to contravene this agreement, or go to any other court that is incompetent to handle this case.

The US courts have no jurisdiction on this case and is only acting as a hostage taker in this case.
I do not have WinZip, I cannot open the attached file in the website.
 

pmaitra

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Why do you keep on insisting that she is not a GOI employee? Where is her employment contract with GOI? There is no proof to this and in fact neither the lawyers of Khobragade or the GOI is claiming this. The color of her passport is irrelevant.
I disagree completely. The only person who has broken a contract is the maid. The colour of the passport is relevant to the application the maid has signed prior to getting that passport. Open the Zip. Ask someone to help you and read it.
 

asianobserve

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You don't need WinZip. Just read the quote.
You have to read the whole thing to understand it. You don't read laws/rules in isolation.

Anyway, you should email the incompetent lawyers of Khobragade about this defense if you really think that it has application to her. I am still of the opinion that she is not an employee of GOI.
 

pmaitra

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You have to read the whole thing to understand it. You don't read laws/rules in isolation.

Anyway, you should email the incompetent lawyers of Khobragade about this defense if you really think that it has application to her. I am still of the opinion that she is not an employee of GOI.
I am not preventing you from reading it in whole.

You are entitled to your opinion. Opinions are personal. Facts are present in the evidence provided, not in opinions.
 

asianobserve

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The second contract was signed in India prior to her coming to the US, so GoI will only recognize that contract. This is irrelevant, because, the US VISA stamped on an red passport makes the maid a GoI employee (regardless of what happens in India), and thus, US wage laws of not apply.
Again, if US wage laws do not apply then why the need for Khobragade to make another employment contract before they left for the US? And why does she have to make it appear in the first contract that she will pay Richards @9.14 per hour in the US when she does not have any intention of doing it?

Remember, this case is not about Richards but about Khobragade.
 

pmaitra

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Again, if US wage laws do not apply then why the need for Khobragade to make another employment contract before they left for the US? And why does she have to make it appear in the first contract that she will be paid @9.14 per hour in the US when she does not have any intention of doing it?

Remember, this case is not about Richards but about Khobragade.
The first contract was signed in India. The alleged second contract of $9.14 or whatever does not exist. What exists is the alleged promise by Khobragade that she will pay $4500 to the maid in the VISA application, which was mis-read by the ignorant Mark J. Smith, when it was actually Khobragade's own salary.

This case is about Richards, not Khobragade. Khobragade is not obliged to pay even a penny to the maid, according to the application the maid signed in India. The US is holding her hostage. The US has no case, and US courts no jurisdiction.
 

sayareakd

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The first contract was signed in India. The alleged second contract of $9.14 or whatever does not exist. What exists is the alleged promise by Khobragade that she will pay $4500 to the maid in the VISA application, which was mis-read by the ignorant Mark J. Smith, when it was actually Khobragade's own salary.

This case is about Richards, not Khobragade. Khobragade is not obliged to pay even a penny to the maid, according to the application the maid signed in India. The US is holding her hostage. The US has no case, and US courts no jurisdiction.
If she signs contract in Delhi then Indian law will apply. US will have hard time giving answers to difficult questions in Court. Any Good Judge will throw this case on charges...........:shocked:
 

pmaitra

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If she signs contract in Delhi then Indian law will apply. US will have hard time giving answers to difficult questions in Court. Any Good Judge will throw this case on charges...........:shocked:
The entire US system has, insofar, acted like a Kangaroo court, run by semi-literate people. India needs to retaliate hard to drive the point. The US cannot go around playing Taliban style hostage taking and act sweet. India should be prepared to completely downgrade all cooperation with the US and prosecute the US diplomats in India. The US will come back begging to re-open diplomatic channels.
 

asianobserve

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The first contract was signed in India. The alleged second contract of $9.14 or whatever does not exist. What exists is the alleged promise by Khobragade that she will pay $4500 to the maid in the VISA application, which was mis-read by the ignorant Mark J. Smith, when it was actually Khobragade's own salary.

This case is about Richards, not Khobragade. Khobragade is not obliged to pay even a penny to the maid, according to the application the maid signed in India. The US is holding her hostage. The US has no case, and US courts no jurisdiction.
Okay, this matter is already evidentiary. We'll see how the trial will turn out.
 

asianobserve

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Yes. I admire the patience of GoI. The Russians would have put US diplomats in one of their penal colonies. I wonder why GoI does not grow some spine.
Nice thought to ponder. The answers may lie in the strength of Khobraagde's case and in the importance of the ties with the Americans.
 
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pmaitra

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Nice thought to ponder. The answer may lie in the importance of the ties with the Americans. Surely, the people at GOI have a better picture of the relationship.
You have a valid point. They know a lot more than we do.
 

pmaitra

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Ok guys, I gotta go now.

Please, do not lose your cool. Everyone should have a voice and should be able to present his perspective. One should not complain about that. We should be prepared to hear what we don't like to hear. On the other hand, avoid going around in circles. If something is already addressed, don't ask it again.

Finally, I will return later, and if I see any abusive language, I will give out infractions. If there are n posts with abusive language, there will be n infractions, which could get you temporarily banned. Keep it civil.
 

aerokan

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No. If you only read the previous posts you would have known that I agree that the failure to notify the Indian side of the arrest is a violation of the VCCR and more importantly, I agree that a special arrangement should have been made on her arrest just to give importance to the special relationship between Indian and the US (but I don't agree that the arrest per se was illegal).
What should GOI/India do if a country which signed VCCR doesn't follow it?

What I'm arguing at length however is the legality of the case against her and the arrest. I'm also pointing out that the outrage in this case is a product of a huge misunderstanding brought about by the callous playing with public sensitivities about affronts to Indian pride. Hey this is election time in India? Which is irresponsible and dangerous.
Again.. whether this is election time or not, I would expect my the govt to respond in kind if any other nation doesn't respect Indian soverignity. US failed to respect Indian soverignity by flying the Richards family under T-visa by presuming India is a banana republic where laws are not followed. Where is the intense criticism of US govt. that you accord to GOI. I say double standards. We don't give this treatment to our worst enemies. In a country where Mahabharat(huge war in which both sides got annihilated completely similar to world war) happened because a women was stripped, what else would you expect? falling in line for more strip searches? There is no misunderstanding. If you see the timeline and actions of US state dept. it was aware of what it was doing.



I'm of the opinion that a lot of Indians are easily offended and that's not very mature. But I also pointed out in my earlier posts that I noticed that there are more Indians agreeing with the case against Khobragade.
Being too paranoid and doing strip and cavity searches for a diplomat at the consulate general level..and searching for what in her privates? Loads of dollar bills in her vajayjay which she saved by not paying to the maid? And that's mature enough not to warrant repetitive critisism from u?

I don't think the Indian public were sufficiently notified by GOI of the previous maid issues of your consuls in New York. It is clear from the comments of a lot of you that you have never thought long and hard about the previous incidents. Otherwise, you would not feel too surprised and taken aback now with the case against Khobragade.
In the previous cases, were the diplomats strip and cavity searched like this time? Just because there were cases before, we should get there is line to get strip and cavity searched?You failed again to understand why there was outrage this time and not before. And @pmaitra believed that you understood. Too bad you let him down again.


She was strip searched but not "cavity searched." I agree with you that she should not have been subjected to being strip searched.
I would rather believe India than to believe the state department" is one of the comments. And many US citizens echoed that statement in different forms. I believe she was cavity searched as well. State dept has lost credibility by lying through their teeth day in and day out. What should be done in this case? If a person does mistakes, he/she will be jailed promptly by the govt. When US state dept does this, who is getting jailed. Before you answer with the compensation part, who is getting jailed and strip seached for this mistake? And how is her modesty going to come back. Thanks for agreeing with me on this, but where is your repeated criticism of US state dept in the way they conducted this affair?

Before you state any legality of anything, there is something called "in letter and in spirit". If US only follows laws and forgets the spirit in which the laws were made, there is no future for that kind of system. And you are supporting that system day in and dayout.
 
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Ray

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To sum up, the US is wrong and damned wrong.\

They cannot subvert the VCCR since they are a signatory to the Covent ion.

If they overrule the VCCR then they are dishonest and their credibility is zero in the comity of Nations.IN other world, they are untrustworthy.

If they do not honour their word having signed the VCCR, then nations should have the gumption to tell them that they are wrong and where to get off!

They, the US, do not rule the world, even if some vassal like Nation and their people feel it prudent to kowtow to them.

Our PM, who is known to be very fond of Pakistan and the US, finds it a mere 'hiccup'. (The love of these two nations for him seems to have given him political indigestion)
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/d...caused-hiccups-in-ties-with-india-us/1215379/

However, the Nation and even his Congress Party has given him up as a lost cause & find the said hiccup to be nauseous, evil and unending belch.
 
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