I can not say I agree or disagree with Gen Shankar Roychaudhary but what the RFI suggests is otherwise by using the word " Medium" .
Heavy armour and protection as the supreme factor became prime requirement where armour / tanks were not employed in their classical roles but for FIBUA and close encounter battles such as in Iraq and Afghanistan or Ukrain. Germans have always gone for heavy - heavy is beautiful right from their Tiger days. Israelis always went for a balanced tank.
In recent times, I think, Indian Army initially got influenced by this debate of heavy versus medium tank and three crew versus four crew tanks and therefore might have accepted heavy Arjun primarily for less mobile roles and as an adjunct.
OK whatever.
But tell me what Indian Army would do with Tanks ? Fight in the streets of Lahore or Amritsar?
Provided they reach there? To reach there they need mobility more than protection !
When Indian Army took out their T-72 tanks in Jaffna , three were blown off in the first instance itself. That was end of employment of Tanks in a built up area. Employment of Tanks in built up areas to quell local insurgencies, indulge into urban warfare , and even engage in close quarter battles over the objective, perhaps is not Indian Armour / Mechanised forces doctrine. ( though I am not privy to it) It would still not want their Tanks to be converted into Infantry tanks of the older days of Worl War II.
Indian army primarily would like to conduct swift and quick blitzkrieg mobile warfare based on manoeuvres and not indulge into firepower slug. Given the terrain and conditions obtained on our borders such bold employment of armour can only be undertaken when mobility is retained as the prime characteristics with adequate protection and good firepower. Is not that also the prime lesson from our history? Of course I am also not suggesting suicadal Rajput Cavalary Charges. But if the battles are envisaged for only four five days durations even that would become necessary.
As on today anti tank weaponry and Armour (protection) technology is almost evenly matched with tandem warheads, long penetrators, top attack munitions and smart munitions disabling any tank of any protection?. Protection so far has not won its battle.
Tanks are invariably going to take casualties whether they are light or heavy tanks particularly when two well equipped conventional armies such as those of India and Pakistan are pitted in battles.. the battles are very intense and fast and two sides are going to thow every thing on each other at the very go. In order to minimise those casualties, why cut down on mobility which equally serves as a factor to save casualties and adds to protection? When mobility becomes the essential factor of the doctrine , is such a thing as Arjun advisable ?
Hence in my view, mobility of mechanised forces must be the prime consideration.
It is not for nothing that Al Khalid is of only 46 tons which is going to be MBT of Pakistan ?
"I can not say I agree or disagree with Gen Shankar Roychaudhary but what the RFI suggests is otherwise by using the word " Medium" ."
he says that the low armor, unsafe ammo storage- turret cooking T series has failed in every enocunter with heavt armor , safe ammo storage western heavy MBTs each time.
There is no need for you to either agree or not. The truth is plain for all to see.
Where is the confusion about agreeing?
Doesn't Roy choudry count among the "uniforms" who are vehemently being defended by YOU?
Posting a few maps and claiming Arjun is not mobile has become your favorite pass time!!!!
T-90 also weighs close to 50 tons, compared to Arjun mk1's 57 tons. But these T-90s cant fight in desert and have very vulnerable auto loader-Ammo heaped on the tank floor arrangement , which is an invitation to disaster, i.e the ammo will cook up the tank even in the case of a seep through land mine explosion.
Any RPG hit from side lines which create just a small flash inside T-90 compartment will lead to ammo cook up and turret of the tank being blown off. You know it .IA know it. The whole world knows it.
Tekll me how do you suppose IA can save these ammo cook off ready T-90s and T-72s even from side ways RPG hit in any futre war?
But Arjun mk1 which had ammo stored in tubes in the wall arrangement with cap for each round completley separating Ammo from crew chamber will not have this problem of ammo cook off . Any sideays RPG hit will not completley destroy the tank.
Even if one or more crew members are immoblized the tank can still move and will be able to fight on and return the crew back to safety.
This doing away with dangerous autoloader -tank rounds lying on the floor , primitive T-90, T-72 scheme of things was the primary reason for Arjuns 57 ton weight in mk1.because it needed space all ove for extra crew, a compartment big enough to have proper ventilation to let crew function for extended periods in desert summer heat and safe ammo storage.
In mk2 IA went one step further!!! It wanted cannisterised ammo storage with blow off panels which direct the explosion of ammo outwards even if the ammo storage is hit directly,which led to a few more ton weight increase. The reason IA wanted this is , they wanted to completley eliminate the ammo cook off danger.
Now armata too has same arrangemen, and even with three men crew it weighs in 55 to 60 tojn range.
So Modern armies that are serious about fighting the tank wars of the future are accepting a min 55 tonto 60 ton , weight for their tank even for 3 men crew still with cumbersome auto loader.
leo is going to be modernized. Do you seriously think germans will redesign it below 50 tons with cumbersome auto loader arrangement?
So if IA standardizes on Sarvantra bridge laying equippment which can easily load 70 tons the so called logistic problem is over. Railways have no difficulty in transporting arjun, Infact the photos here show even russian t series tanks having their tracks protruding from trains. So all this over wieght -unable to deploy fast is meanignleess.
"
Given the terrain and conditions obtained on our borders such bold employment of armour can only be undertaken when mobility is retained as the prime characteristics with adequate protection and good firepower.
Is not that also the prime lesson from our history? Of course I am also not suggesting suicadal Rajput Cavalary Charges.
But if the battles are envisaged for only four five days durations even that would become necessary."
if you think such mobility can only be achieved by 40 ton tank then IA should forevr tied with T-72 tech. Even t-90 which weighs close to 50 tons is useless because whereever Arjun cant go, it too can not go. Why/
if 60 ton arjun can not cross 40 ton british era bridges in border area without bridging equipment support argument is used , then the same holds true for T-90 also.
The 50 ton T-90 too can not be mobilized fast enough in border regions because 40 ton british era canal bridges and can not support them in Punjab.
Why did DGMF bought thousands of these T-90s, which simply not even fit to fight in the most crucial indian Rajasthan desert are for prolonged time in summer heat?
Who is going to design a 40 ton tank with all modern safe ammo, no cumbersome autoloader fully armor protected tank in this modern era , where the baseline for any modern MBT with protection worth the name is drawn at 55 ton as armata design shows?
""When Indian Army took out their T-72 tanks in Jaffna , three were blown off in the first instance itself. That was end of employment of Tanks in a built up area. Employment of Tanks in built up areas to quell local insurgencies, indulge into urban warfare , and even engage in close quarter battles over the objective, perhaps is not Indian Armour / Mechanised forces doctrine. ( though I am not privy to it) It would still not want their Tanks to be converted into Infantry tanks of the older days of Worl War II."
The reason for this has nothing to do with weight. It has everything to do with ammo cookoff from simple seep through landmine explosions and RPG hits.
SO in any time in future if the IA is forced to enter lahore, which is just 40 Km from international border will they call for importing german mechanized forces?
So for teh next 40 years you and the DGMF want their doctrine to permanently handi cap IA operations in any urban center?
What is Dhaka and many other twons in Bangladesh where IA fought? Dense rain forest?
Any fool will tell you that the key to brake enemy morale is to encircle and take the big towns which are production centers of weapons away from him.
Why did the allied forces rush all over germany in a race to be the first one to reach Berlin?
. And talking about pakis-, it Is something found among pakis with identity crisis leading them to claim that they were descendants of Arabs , turks and persians and what not.
