Indian Army MRSAM

[Shaitan]

No it wont OR Very slight chance are there, What makes Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos deadly is they are impossible to intercept at low altitude, P-800 is extremely fast 2000-3000km/h giving the defending system like barak8 a min or less from 70kms to get a lock is extremely difficult, The Supersonic missles use speed which reduce reaction time of defending system, to kill it, one must increase engagement range..

The only way is to engage the missile 100km away, Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos active radar head has a range of 75 km, which means that at this distance from its target it can start pinging it independently (without outside corrections from the launch platform). After it has pinged its target, it dives into the sea-skimming mode.

Which basically means that the only chance you get to intercept Yakhont is outside of the 75 km radius, when it is still flying at high altitude. Or terminally, with a CIWS, but that is of course more of a Hail Mary pass.

Kunal you just copied some other guys comment from Militaryphotos.




Barak-8 against the Russian P-800 Yakhont - Page 2

and nationalistic Russians on mp net are bad sources

Oh, never mind

 

[pack leader]

Seeker ? isn't it guided at radar`s line of sight..



MF-star may detect it, But engagement zone is still 70kms, If you can get me the reaction time of Barak1 or 8 ?
70kms is too less for any system to kill a supersonic vehicle at sea-skimming mode..


LOL.. So you are keeping a track on it..

He elaborated what i said before..

the exact time is opsec but i can tell you that Barack 8 has the best reaction time
of all existing Israeli missile assets
and Barack 8 has it's own radar (inside the rocket)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

So, It fine to post someone else who speak the same but more elaborate way ?

Nevermind..

Anyways, To kill P-800 the engagement range should be minimum 100kms..

 

[pack leader]

So, It fine to post someone else who speak the same but more elaborate way ?

Nevermind..

Anyways, To kill P-800 the engagement range should be minimum 100kms..

1) you have been proven wrong by live fire tests
2) you will have a Barack 8 ER 120 km range for your mammoth ships (in 2014)
but our small and medium ships can carry many Barack 8 missiles for self and area protection right now
because of small size and wight of Barack 8 .

 

[sayareakd]

it is good, we will learn from you and you will learn from us, in way we will protect each other from our enemies. Such type of tests are necessary to understand how latest state of art missiles work and then go in for next generation of missiles. BTW Brahmos corporation is working on Brahmos block II, AVATAR for which Israel is also doing some work and ISRO has some similar project for future.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

the exact time is opsec but i can tell you that Barack 8 has the best reaction time
of all existing Israeli missile assets
and Barack 8 has it's own radar (inside the rocket)

Di-spite that MF-STAR can detect seaskimming missiles at 25km most, it further minimize reaction time..

P-800 assume Sea-skimming mode at 75kms, As i / other said it will be a Hail Mary pass.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1) you have been proven wrong by live fire tests
2) you will have a Barack 8 ER 120 km range for your mammoth ships (in 2014)
but our small and medium ships can carry many Barack 8 missiles for self and area protection right now
because of small size and wight of Barack 8 .

@Pack Leader,
Their is been no tests against any supersonic sea skimming missile till date i know..
Also if that happens than its good coz in future we might face so ugly variant of Chinese P-800..

I cannot comment for Israeli ships, but i believe Israeli Air-force job is to find and destroy before these are deployed..

 

[pack leader]

Di-spite that MF-STAR can detect seaskimming missiles at 25km most, it further minimize reaction time..

P-800 assume Sea-skimming mode at 75kms, As i / other said it will be a Hail Mary pass.

i cant go there but MF star is much better then you think
according to my good friend you (Indian navy) provided the target

 

[indian_sukhoi]

Barak 8 vs Yakhont P-800 and Other Supersonic Missiles.

Excellent Topic,.......I was about to start one myself. Pack Leader,......Could you please modify the Topic name to Barak 8 vs Yakhont P-800 and Other Supersonic Missiles.
We can disucss relating other missiles and scenerios,.....Thank You.



Yahnot is Supersonic missile and Barak was never proven against any Supersonic missile yet. Once fired, The fire-and-forget system will lead the missile to the Ship making Jamming is impossible.

Both The Navies doesn't even have a AEGIS System or AWACS.


In Israel scenerio,......They will facing a lot of land-based coastal defense systems. Dunno much about the Israel Navy, but they corvettes are very much stealthy and small unlike us which we have mammoth ships. A Right Co-ordinated attack could sink a Israel Corvattes.

Although Syrians doesnt any Platform to launch but Yahont can also be launched from Land Mobile Platforms.

No it wont OR Very slight chance are there, What makes Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos deadly is they are impossible to intercept at low altitude, P-800 is extremely fast 2000-3000km/h giving the defending system like barak8 a min or less from 70kms to get a lock is extremely difficult, The Supersonic missles use speed which reduce reaction time of defending system, to kill it, one must increase engagement range..

The only way is to engage the missile 100km away, Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos active radar head has a range of 75 km, which means that at this distance from its target it can start pinging it independently (without outside corrections from the launch platform). After it has pinged its target, it dives into the sea-skimming mode.

Which basically means that the only chance you get to intercept Yakhont is outside of the 75 km radius, when it is still flying at high altitude. Or terminally, with a CIWS, but that is of course more of a Hail Mary pass.

And thats what we are lacking,..........Both the Navies are completely relied upon its Ship Based Radars for early warning. I Dunno much about ELTA MF-star radars and its capabilities but definitely cant give us the advantages of Carrier Borne AWACS.

The Present Radars in IN Warships cannot detect the missiles 100km away. The Anti-Ships missiles can be detected at 30km radius, The Barak missile may not have sufficient time to counter it.

The Success for Intercepting the Yakhont will be depending upon how far the missile being detected from a Ship. With AWACS support, Even cruise missiles with Radar Cross Section (RCS) of 1-metre square or less can be detected at around 185-km.

the Barack 8 is self guided after lunch it uses a jump up look down approach against sea skimming targets
MF-star will detect the approx missile position and lunch Barack 8 lal
it has been tested twice already and proved 90% affective against sub sonic missile
and 80% affective against super sonic missile (your navy was represented in the tests )

Sir,.....I couldnt find any reliable sourse of the Live fire test.

The Ultimate test for Barak-8 would be by testing against a Supersonic missile.

Intercepting a Sub-sonic missile and a Supersonic missile are the not the same, There will be very less reaction timing. Any Missile Intercepting a Brahmos, Then i would say its the best Point Defence missile in the World


Brahmos has everything a Modern Anti-Ship needs to have. A Supersonic missile which manuere and countermesures to counter EW Capability. Not to forget,...........New Anti-Ship missiles are made to reduce radar and Ir signatures. DRDO are already testing it on Brahmos.

i cant go there but MF star is much better then you think
according to my good friend you (Indian navy) provided the target

I hate Suspense,.........We provided the Target!!!

Is that suppose to mean that Barak was tested against Brahmos missille???

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Yahnot is Supersonic missile and Barak was never proven against any Supersonic missile yet. Once fired, The fire-and-forget system will lead the missile to the Ship making Jamming is impossible.

Bhramos and P-800 have ECM protection against possible known jamming, But Bharmos or P-800 are not pure fire and forget, they keep getting info and path correction from lunching platform at rage of 70-50km its own seeker activates..

Both The Navies doesn't even have a AEGIS System or AWACS.

Its not nessasry they have to relay on carrier based AWACS..

Although Syrians doesnt any Platform to launch but Yahont can also be launched from Land Mobile Platforms.

They are smaller and can be fitted in small corvettes, But Israeli`s foes will use ground based..

And thats what we are lacking,..........Both the Navies are completely relied upon its Ship Based Radars for early warning. I Dunno much about ELTA MF-star radars and its capabilities but definitely cant give us the advantages of Carrier Borne AWACS.

The Present Radars in IN Warships cannot detect the missiles 100km away. The Anti-Ships missiles can be detected at 30km radius, The Barak missile may not have sufficient time to counter it.

MF-STAR is a good radar, It works better when placed higher, Israeli ships mast is at 20m from water where radar is placed and gives a early warning of 25km, Kolkata`s radar mast will be around 60m above water which will give a detection of sea-skimming of 40kms, MF-STAR also works with other surveillance system like other ships in fleet also Airborne radars like on KH-31 used by IN..

Our Barak one is capable of tracking subsonic missiles like harpoon and Urans also Chinese stuff ..

Brahmos has everything a Modern Anti-Ship needs to have. A Supersonic missile which manuere and countermesures to counter EW Capability. Not to forget,...........New Anti-Ship missiles are made to reduce radar and Ir signatures. DRDO are already testing it on Brahmos.

Its good but not the best, It rank higher in payload as per supersonic, It main advantage its speed, Also variety of platforms, But disadvantages are its not pure fire and forget type, range needed to be increased, Also deign needed to be stealthy like SCALP..

But its most feared anti-ship missile right now..

I hate Suspense,.........We provided the Target!!!

Is that suppose to mean that Barak was tested against Brahmos missille???

Not a Brahmos but a supersonic drone..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

i am not sure about p-800 oniks the original soviet platform but against bhramos travelling at mach 2.8 and making higly evasive manuvers it is impossible for barrack-8 to intercept them practically.but theoritically it is possible.barrack-8 are tested only against subsonic cruise missiles(drones mimmicing subsonic cruise missile flight trajectory). but the problem is against any israeli flottila there will be a salvo of such missile which renders any air-defence system inaccurate.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

the best chance for israeli navy is to procure bhramos cruise missile from us if russia agrees.alternatively they can do some under the table arrangement with drdo promising mr pillai amd co. a weekend in israel with some sexy israeli girls accompanying them and of course some commision.the menace of p-800 oniks can be nuetralised with a salvo of bhramos(preferably air-launched) as they say offence is the best defence.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

@Pack Leader,
Their is been no tests against any supersonic sea skimming missile till date i know..

Sure it has Raytheon's SM-2 missile has been tested against a derivative of Zvezda's Kh-31 (AS-17 Krypton) anti-ship missile). In case you are wondering Zvezda-Strela sold AS-17 Krypton to Boeing.

The Kh-31 (Russian: Х-31; AS-17 'Krypton')is a Russian air-to-surface missile carried by aircraft such as the MiG-29 or Su-27. It is a sea skimming cruise missile with a range of 110 kilometres (60 nmi; 70 mi) or more and capable of Mach 3.5, the first supersonic anti-ship missile that could be launched by tactical aircraft.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sure it has Raytheon's SM-2 missile has been tested against a derivative of Zvezda's Kh-31 (AS-17 Krypton) anti-ship missile). In case you are wondering Zvezda-Strela sold AS-17 Krypton to Boeing.

Yes, Its known abt it also their were few MA-31 launched but non intercepted..

 

[death.by.chocolate]

Yes, Its known abt it also their were few MA-31 launched but non intercepted..

Nope SM-2's were very successful, so were AMRAAM's from 80NM launched by a F/A-18 E/F.

 

[wild goose]

Sure it has Raytheon's SM-2 missile has been tested against a derivative of Zvezda's Kh-31 (AS-17 Krypton) anti-ship missile). In case you are wondering Zvezda-Strela sold AS-17 Krypton to Boeing.

DBC,

But was the test successful, did the SM2 intercept the Kh-31/MA-31.

It seems they couldn't intercept any of the 17 launches. At least that is what I read recently.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

DBC,

But was the test successful, did the SM2 intercept the Kh-31/MA-31.

It seems they couldn't intercept any of the 17 launches. At least that is what I read recently.

Intercept was successful, although USN was concerned that the intercept left the warhead intact and a nuclear payload may still cause damage to the fleet. Newer variants developed since then addresses that issue. Brahmos is still very potent against lesser adversaries such as Pakistan and China.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Intercept was successful, although USN was concerned that the intercept left the warhead intact and a nuclear payload may still cause damage to the fleet. Newer variants developed since then addresses that issue. Brahmos is still very potent against lesser adversaries such as Pakistan and China.

We understand your view, But give some hard fact given by boing or Zvezda-Strela to back up your claim..

If you have gone through my post i have posted the pic of MA-31making a score on target..

 

[death.by.chocolate]

We understand your view, But give some hard fact given by boing or Zvezda-Strela to back up your claim..

If you have gone through my post i have posted the pic of MA-31making a score on target..

Sure USN tested the MA-31 against retired ships and other non-maneuvering targets to measure the destructive force of a M2.8 projectile as you can see from the image you posted. Unfortunately, the Russian missile proved to be unreliable for interception analysis and only 34 were ordered. The supersonic target vehicles contract went to Orbital Sciences the makers of GQM-163 Coyote, GPS guidance and laser altimeter allowed the testers precise control over the supersonic target vehicle. See below image of a SM-2 intercepting a sea skimming GQM-163 Coyote capable of speeds of up to Mach 4.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

See below image of a SM-2 intercepting a sea skimming GQM-163 Coyote capable of speeds of up to Mach 4.

^^Static hit..

^^Silkworm

^^GQM-163 Coyote

I was not asking for this, Its not even close..