Indian Army Aviation Wing

[Ray]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

Targets are chosen before hand to include when immediately required.

These missions don't loiter.

There are two types of air support.

One is Pre Planned and the other is Immediate.

In both the target is specified and the time by which it should be effective and after which it is not required.

The armament is decided by those who are organising the air support at the airfield since they know best what armament is ideal for the target based on the type of aircraft or gunship being used.

The CO/ Company Commander/ Squadron/ Regiment Commander indicates the target by a request (pre planned) or on radio (Immediate) on the Air Support Net.

Jawans do not conduct battles, it is the officer who does it.

The air support is guided on to the target by the Forward Air Controller (IAF person) or by the Ground Liaison Officer (Army person). They take over once the aircraft or gunship report having reached the Contact Point.

Both are trained to call and guide air support.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

I did not mean that. When I asked this I meant soldiers on the ground requesting fire support from a helicopter regardless of his rank from an officer of a higher rank sitting in the cockpit.

I don't really know what happens in the air or the ground. I also do not know if the soldiers on the ground can prioritize targets for the helicopters either. So, if a Jawan on the ground deems one particular target is more important than the other contrary to the Wing Commander's (pilot) opinion, then can we assume the Jawan can override the Wing Commander's opinion?

So, my question is who is actually in charge when fire support is requested, the main in the air or the man on the ground? And whether there are ego clashes during the time if there is a difference in opinion? I also want to know if this question is a valid question.

Fire support is a "support" which is controlled by the man / officer in contact or controlling the battle. There is no hierarchy involved in this as the controlling element is the one who is on ground. It could be an air force officer or junior or senior rank attached to the troops in contact on ground or it could be the troop commander may be a Subedar. Since he knows the battle better and its critical aspects he is in a better position to direct the fire of air assets. The only thing a pilot in air can do is to inform the ground commanders of those elements which he can observe from air but ground troops may not be able to observe. But the decision where the fire is required will be that of the ground man.

The airman flying the machine hardly has much time over the target area. He comes delivers quick and tries to exit. But, may be for Apaches, wherein the Scout helicopter in the air acquires and designates the targets for them and the scouts and apaches remain over target areas over longer periods.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

@p2prada

It seems you do not read Tom Clancy......

In Red Strom Rising it is one SF Sargent who controls nuclear strikes over targets form a high vantage peak in Norway !!

 

[p2prada]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

Is there some reading material available over the net on how all this happens, something written by been there done that officers, regardless of country?

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

Is there some reading material available over the net on how all this happens, something written by been there done that officers, regardless of country?

CLOSE AIR SUPPORT COMMAND AND CONTROL AT THE - DTIC


www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA475575



Read US Army FM on Close Air Support

 

[Ray]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

Is there some reading material available over the net on how all this happens, something written by been there done that officers, regardless of country?

Contact WG Ewald and ask him to give you the link to the US Field Manual on Helicopter Gunship and how they are used.

I have a copy, but then I don't know where it is!

It has some excellent illustrations of how they whole sab chiz operates.

Even a layman will be able to understand!

 

[p2prada]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

Thanks for the clue. Even a lead helps.

FM 1-112
FM 1-112 Default

A list of field manuals,
Army Field Manuals

 

[cloud_9]

Army to buy copter-borne early warning systems

In a first that will give a major boost to the Army's aviation wing, India is planning to procure helicopter-borne early warning systems for the land force. The final specifications for the system are being chalked out, following which a tender process will be initiated this year.

The new system could be fitted on board the Army's existing Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) and will give formation commanders an insight into enemy territory while serving as warning systems for approaching aircraft and armoured units.

Sources said the Army is in the final stages of ordering the new system and is considering involving the Indian private sector in the programme. The other option is to rope in Defence Public Sector Unit, Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), to design and develop the system.

The project, which would involve developing a new system in collaboration with a foreign partner, can be lucrative for the Indian defence industry, as the final order would be for a large number of the early warning systems.

The new systems would give a fillip to the Army's aviation wing that has seen a steady growth in the past few years. Starting with the small Chetak/Cheetah single-engine choppers, Army aviation is now operating the ALH and is set to order a new fleet of light attack helicopters that are being developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

The early warning systems would be integrated with attack helicopter squadrons that the Army plans to induct in coming years and will act as valuable force multipliers.

While the Air Force does operate early warning systems, it does not have any such helicopter-borne systems that are vital for close-in, ground combat situations where enemy armour and rotary wing aircraft operate.

Meanwhile, the Army recently won a tussle with the Air Force on control over attack helicopter squadrons. Traditionally operated by the Air Force, the Army has them under its operational control and has now been selected for operating them also as is the norm world over.

 

[Spindrift]

Awesome! now our boys can go heli hoggin' across the border

HELI-HOG'N on Vimeo

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

Contact WG Ewald and ask him to give you the link to the US Field Manual on Helicopter Gunship and how they are used.

I have a copy, but then I don't know where it is!

It has some excellent illustrations of how they whole sab chiz operates.

Even a layman will be able to understand!

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-04-126.pdf

Do you want this manual posted her as PDF? It's fairly large.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

Is there some reading material available over the net on how all this happens, something written by been there done that officers, regardless of country?

Some links here.

UH-1M Army Combat Helicopter (gunship)

 

[W.G.Ewald]

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/doctrine/genesis_and_evolution/source_materials/FM-100-5_operations.pdf

Army air defense, along with attack helicopter assaults

 

[Tronic]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

The present two sqns of attack helicopters (MI-25 etc) flown by IAF are under operational control of the IA !

Only with the approval of the IAF.

 

[Tronic]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

@p2prada

It seems you do not read Tom Clancy......

In Red Strom Rising it is one SF Sargent who controls nuclear strikes over targets form a high vantage peak in Norway !!

lol... Please don't use Tom Clancy as reference for military SOPs..

While entertaining, most of the SOPs in his writing are bullocks.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Army gets control over attack helicopters

 

[LurkerBaba]

x-post http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...y-get-own-mini-air-force-soon.html#post627975

 

[shom]

@Daredevil,, Airforce has lots of jobs and one of them is supporting the army ,, if army has an aviation wing then airforce would be far relaxed and would concentrate on other jobs. Just think about the film Border,, when station commander Bikram Bajwa (Jackie Shroff) was planning to attack Rahim Khan Air base they were bound to delay the attack and save Loungewala ,, if we had an army aviation wing then the delay could be averted. (though the example is filmi but we can imagine the situation).

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Don't forget Kargil, IAF was delayed by MOD for 2 months and our men were fighting without air and artillery support only with Mortars..

When MI-17 and few fighters were downed, IAF stopped CAS for a week and again IA had to fight without cover..

------------

Life were lost under command, Its no joke..

@Daredevil,, Airforce has lots of jobs and one of them is supporting the army ,, if army has an aviation wing then airforce would be far relaxed and would concentrate on other jobs. Just think about the film Border,, when station commander Bikram Bajwa (Jackie Shroff) was planning to attack Rahim Khan Air base they were bound to delay the attack and save Loungewala ,, if we had an army aviation wing then the delay could be averted. (though the example is filmi but we can imagine the situation).