Indian Army Aviation Wing

[Armand2REP]

MANPADS can easily hit a prop plane. Far easier than hitting a jet that could get out of range faster. US doesn't want them for that very reason.

 

[Yusuf]

What's the comparison of the heat signature. If the piston planes don't emit too much heat or the one required by heat seeking missiles then how will they home in?

 

[pmaitra]

What's the comparison of the heat signature. If the piston planes don't emit too much heat or the one required by heat seeking missiles then how will they home in?

I doesn't matter Yusuf. Modern day FLIR cameras can easily detect heat signatures, be they from turbine exhaust or IC engine exhaust.

 

[Yusuf]

I doesn't matter Yusuf. Modern day FLIR cameras can easily detect heat signatures, be they from turbine exhaust or IC engine exhaust.

Saar where are the FLIRS on MANPADS which is the threat in CAS?

 

[pmaitra]

Saar where are the FLIRS on MANPADS which is the threat in CAS?

If it is a heat seeking missile, it will have an infrared sensor. It's the same hardware that you have in FLIR cameras and heat seeking missiles.

 

[agentperry]

IA should first provide good rifles and pistols to all its men and then jump on to fancy wishlist. they lack even the basic support system and goes on for aircrafts. they should be happy with helicopters. its not economically viable for any army to have its own airforce. also this shows lack of faith in IAF which is not good. moreover army operates in far away frontiers and there a big airfield will be a blunder only. attack helicopters only for IA and for other things IAF should be improved.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IA should first provide good rifles and pistols to all its men and then jump on to fancy wishlist. they lack even the basic support system and goes on for aircrafts. they should be happy with helicopters. its not economically viable for any army to have its own airforce. also this shows lack of faith in IAF which is not good. moreover army operates in far away frontiers and there a big airfield will be a blunder only. attack helicopters only for IA and for other things IAF should be improved.

Pistols are good, Hi-powers
Rifle need to be mordanised, But doenst meant they are too bad..

Its not fancy wish list, Airborne assets are main arm of any powerful armies in the world..
Their are no big airfield near borders ( 10 kms or so ) only helipads, or grass or desert fields....

 

[SpArK]

Hi any other link surfaced other than the one from a very unreliable source on the same?


Are we discussing

 

[agentperry]

Pistols are good, Hi-powers
Rifle need to be mordanised, But doenst meant they are too bad..

Its not fancy wish list, Airborne assets are main arm of any powerful armies in the world..
Their are no big airfield near borders ( 10 kms or so ) only helipads, or grass or desert fields....

sir thats why i was saying that the induction of such aircrafts are not required. they will still be operating from IAF bases and will use the IAF maintenance facilities. so its better to induct them into IAF fleet for ground attack.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

sir thats why i was saying that the induction of such aircrafts are not required. they will still be operating from IAF bases and will use the IAF maintenance facilities. so its better to induct them into IAF fleet for ground attack.

How it is not required ?

Why need to induct them in IAF fleet as they already have, It is been discussed to death why IA need its own small Strike Air wing, I am not saying hundreds but 3 - 4 squadron of Jet and turbo-prop mixed with addition of 100 LCH and many Rudras..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Are we discussing

Dhake se....

time pass....

 

[agentperry]

How it is not required ?

Why need to induct them in IAF fleet as they already have, It is been discussed to death why IA need its own small Strike Air wing, I am not saying hundreds but 3 - 4 squadron of Jet and turbo-prop mixed with addition of 100 LCH and many Rudras..

but sir again this airwing wil be highly dependent upon the IAF for training of its pilot in fighting skills and maintenance of its fleet. i think uav like predator and mq-9 with rudra and lch are more than enough for IA. i dont think its any bad in outsourcing this requirement to IAF.

moreover the tri-service command will take care of such things autonomously so IA again going solo is future burden on resources only.

 

[ace009]

It's not a question of being dependent upon IAF. Any IA and SFC airwing will always be dependant on IAF. But for small skirmish CAS, Recon, Insertion/ extraction, Med-evac IA's own airwing will give the army more ops flexibility, faster response time and increased effectiveness.
Even with Tri-services command, it still requires a significant number of steps for a CAS call from army grunts to be answered by the IAF. The response process and reaction time maybe brought down significantly if the IA caan deploy it's own air assets without going through the Tri-services command for each and every case, however small-scale.

IAF will be still in charge of all logistics and maintenance, training and inspection, air superiority, air-denial, air-defence and all major CAS, SEAD, Recon, transport, para-deployment etc. There is no way that an army aviation wing can replace or make redundant a full professional airforce.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IA CAS and other wing is a supplement to the troops..

Having control over Air CAS assets a field commander is more confident and flexible in his decisions..

If IA CAS cannot archive the goal the Air-Force is always there..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

but sir again this airwing wil be highly dependent upon the IAF for training of its pilot in fighting skills and maintenance of its fleet. i think uav like predator and mq-9 with rudra and lch are more than enough for IA. i dont think its any bad in outsourcing this requirement to IAF.

moreover the tri-service command will take care of such things autonomously so IA again going solo is future burden on resources only.

Every branch does, BSF, CRPF and Army pilots get their training from Airforce, If not their are other option in foreign countries..
IA already have a vast fleet of Helos and maintains it, IA is responsible for maintain its own fleet, The training is given by HAL..


Drones have plenty of draw backs:

1. It need more than 20 personal to operate..
2. Its more expensive than a turbo-prop..
3. It carry very minimum payload compare to a turbo-prop..
4. It need dedicated Run way where turbo-props dont..
5. Beside technical problems it can be jamed by sophisticated Virus, Where turbo -prop dont..


The coordination between IAF and IA was improved again and again since 60s but the results remain same as its impossible to change actually structure of IAF and IA based on Post WW2 British, And as time goes it became more complex in the process of making simple.. The topic is very complex..

I.e one reason for IA to go expand IA aviation..

 

[agentperry]

Every branch does, BSF, CRPF and Army pilots get their training from Airforce, If not their are other option in foreign countries..
IA already have a vast fleet of Helos and maintains it, IA is responsible for maintain its own fleet, The training is given by HAL..


Drones have plenty of draw backs:

1. It need more than 20 personal to operate..
2. Its more expensive than a turbo-prop..
3. It carry very minimum payload compare to a turbo-prop..
4. It need dedicated Run way where turbo-props dont..
5. Beside technical problems it can be jamed by sophisticated Virus, Where turbo -prop dont..


The coordination between IAF and IA was improved again and again since 60s but the results remain same as its impossible to change actually structure of IAF and IA based on Post WW2 British, And as time goes it became more complex in the process of making simple.. The topic is very complex..

I.e one reason for IA to go expand IA aviation..

sir IA is operating helicopters and UAV nower days. wont it be futile for IA to operate 3-4 squadrons of its fighter/ground attack aircrafts? in case of paramilitary air fleet, the operation is outsourced to pawan hans which inturn take pilots from forces only.
these ground attack fighters are useful in case enemy is mulling an attack or the ground forces need some assistance and internationally these things are actualized by airforce itself. i still think it wont pass feasibility test. UAV are expensive but they are more effective in such roles. each UAV with 4-6 missiles can cause lots of damage and panic among the enemy and also its free from risk of losing pilots in war.

also not to forget the small fleet maintained by bsf and itbp are facing lots of spare crunch because of economies of scale.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

wont it be futile for IA to operate 3-4 squadrons of its fighter/ground attack aircrafts?

in case of paramilitary air fleet, the operation is outsourced to pawan hans which inturn take pilots from forces only.

Why it would be futile after i have already given reason why its needed on first place..

these ground attack fighters are useful in case enemy is mulling an attack or the ground forces need some assistance and internationally these things are actualized by airforce itself. i still think it wont pass feasibility test.

UAV are expensive but they are more effective in such roles. each UAV with 4-6 missiles can cause lots of damage and panic among the enemy and also its free from risk of losing pilots in war.

also not to forget the small fleet maintained by bsf and itbp are facing lots of spare crunch because of economies of scale.

What internationally ?
The logic is a independent fighting force having basic necessity to fight a multi dimension warfare..

How they are more efficient ?, I am talking combination 500lb LGB, Cluster bombs, 70mm Rocket pods and MG, To effectively cover CAS for troops, The only good part abt UAV is its unmanned other than that its not a platform to be dependent for CAS..

I never heard they have any problems with Spares..

 

[asianobserve]

Why it would be futile after i have already given reason why its needed on first place..



What internationally ?
The logic is a independent fighting force having basic necessity to fight a multi dimension warfare..

How they are more efficient ?, I am talking combination 500lb LGB, Cluster bombs, 70mm Rocket pods and MG, To effectively cover CAS for troops, The only good part abt UAV is its unmanned other than that its not a platform to be dependent for CAS..

I never heard they have any problems with Spares..

I think the best aspect of UAVs are their persistence. They can stay over the battle zones for periods that no manned AC can normally endure. UAVs an stalk the enemy and pounce only when needed. Payload is not an issue, current UAVs only have limited payloads because they were not originally designed as gunships but surveillance assets. But at the moment UAVs cannot host cannons although the newer rotary winged UAVs are becoming more mature.

 

[sandeepdg]

Kunal, whether IA will get CAS aircraft or not, only time will tell, but they sure as hell do need such capability, no doubt about that.

But before, what really bugs me is that IAF has a large inventory of choppers of all types, whereas its the IA that needs them more. I think all IAF choppers should go to the Army, especially the attack ones. The IAF should only maintain a fleet of choppers for SAR and transport for their requirements. Assault choppers and heavy lift choppers should be solely with the Army.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think the best aspect of UAVs are their persistence. They can stay over the battle zones for periods that no manned AC can normally endure. UAVs an stalk the enemy and pounce only when needed. Payload is not an issue, current UAVs only have limited payloads because they were not originally designed as gunships but surveillance assets. But at the moment UAVs cannot host cannons although the newer rotary winged UAVs are becoming more mature.

Actually turboprops can do better with fuel tanks, Normal loitering time is 10 hours for a Turbo-prop..
Though Completely agree on drones, They are not for CAS support, Only When UCAV operational we may see such CAS version out of it till than its all maned..

When we say manned we need to see best for Men on the ground evaluating the system faults and manage accordingly..
Here for Army turbo-props in Army aviation suits better than no other specially giving a Jet size CAS from Short fields or roads..