Indian Army Aviation Wing

[shuvo@y2k10]

i think the armed,heavily armoured version of hjt-36 would be the ideal choice for cas operations for both iaf and ia aviation corps.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[tanker12]

Good choices.However, if wishes were horses - blah, blah and blah!Pray would the Army go in for its own air fields,training ,etc?See the cost it entails and the duplicity.Agreed the Armyrequires dedicated CAS assets.Would it be better that the Army pays for the aircraft and let the airforce fly them like they do with the mi-17 and recently c-130.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Good choices.However, if wishes were horses - blah, blah and blah!Pray would the Army go in for its own air fields,training ,etc?See the cost it entails and the duplicity.Agreed the Armyrequires dedicated CAS assets.Would it be better that the Army pays for the aircraft and let the airforce fly them like they do with the mi-17 and recently c-130.

Your Knowledge is little..

IA use same frontal bases as IAF, Why need for separate base?, IA & IAF operate Helos from same Bases right now..

Army have its own wing which consist of IAF instructor and advisers, IA pilots trained by IAF..

Need for IA pilot is basic thing coz in war or peace every Pilots is valuable, thats why Every branch have its own Pilots even BSF and CRPF..

 

[pmaitra]

A very nice article posted in a different thread:

It was a brutal test of helicopter and pilot. As the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) shuddered towards the icy helipad on a 21,000-foot ledge overlooking the Siachen Glacier, the pilots could see wreckage from earlier helicopter crashes dotting the base of the vertical ice walls on either side. Ahead lay the Indian Army's infamous Sonam Post, the highest inhabited spot on earth, and an extreme example of why the military so urgently wants the Dhruv, which has been customised by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) for high altitude operations.

Very quickly, the Dhruv demonstrated its superiority over the military's tiny, single-engine Cheetah helicopters, which can barely lift 20 kilos of payload to Sonam. Touching down on a tiny H-shape formed on the snow with perforated iron sheets, the Dhruv's pilots signalled to one of the soldiers on Sonam to climb aboard. Effortlessly, the Dhruv took off, circled the post and landed again. Another soldier clambered onto the helicopter and the process was repeated, then with a third, and then a fourth soldier. Even with all Sonam's defenders on board, the twin-engine Dhruv — painted incongruously in the peacock regalia of the IAF's aerobatics team, Sarang — lifted off and landed back safely.''

"This helicopter is simply unmatched at high altitudes," says Group Captain Unni Nair, HAL's chief helicopter test pilot, who flew the Dhruv that August morning during "hot-and-high" trials at Sonam. That term means flying at extreme altitudes in summer, when the heat-swollen oxygen is even thinner than usual. "The army wanted the Dhruv to lift 200 kilos to Sonam; we managed to carry 600 kilos."

Powering that world-beating performance is a new helicopter engine, called the Shakti, which HAL commissioned French engine-maker, Turbomeca, to design for operations along India's high-altitude borders. It is this engine that makes the new Dhruv Mark III — the first five of which were delivered to the army this month — far superior to the Mark I and Mark II Dhruvs, which were built with a less versatile engine. The Shakti, which will start being built under licence at HAL soon, will now power an entire family of HAL-built helicopters: an armed version of the Dhruv; the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH); and the single-engine Light Utility Helicopter that is still on the drawing board.

The Shakti-powered Dhruv Mark III is changing the operational dynamics on India's high-altitude Himalayan defences. The capability to airlift soldiers will allow far-flung posts to be manned with fewer soldiers. In a crisis, jawans can be airlifted quickly from lower altitudes to threatened areas, and casualties can be evacuated.

HAL Bangalore has already begun handing over Dhruv Mark IIIs to the Leh-based 205 Aviation Squadron for operations in Siachen. With the military demanding 159 Dhruvs in quick time, HAL can hardly build these helicopters fast enough. This year's production rate of 25 Dhruvs will be accelerated from 2012 to 36 helicopters annually. The current order includes 54 weaponised Dhruvs — termed Advanced Light Helicopter — Weapons Systems Integrated, or ALH-WSI — armed with anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles, rockets and a 20-millimetre turret gun. The ALH-WSI is scheduled to begin weapons trials in Orissa in April.

The success of the ALH programme, heralded by the Dhruv Mark III, comes after years of struggle and criticism. Last August, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) noted, "Ninety per cent of the value of material used in each ALH is still imported from foreign suppliers."

But HAL chief Ashok Nayak and his helicopter chief, Soundara Rajan, point out that indigenisation does not mean building every component of an aircraft. Citing the example of the Dhruv's HAL-built mission computer, Rajan asks whether the imported microchips inside make the mission computer any less indigenous. He sums up HAL's helicopter strategy as follows: "We will design our helicopters; develop the critical technologies of helicopter transmissions; manufacture composites; and integrate and assemble the helicopter. We will outsource the manufacture of sub-assemblies and components and structures to any vendor on the globe that offers us cost-effective solutions."

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=14492

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A very nice article posted in a different thread:

icy helipad on a 21,000-foot ledge overlooking the Siachen Glacier!

Cheetah helicopters, which can barely lift 20 kilos of payload to Sonam. "The army wanted the Dhruv to lift 200 kilos to Sonam; we managed to carry 600 kilos."!



Respect to Designer !

 

[pmaitra]

^^ Thanks for the pictures Kunal!

 

[tanker12]

Dont be rude! You would be surprised at my knowledge!Ask RAY.

Anyway, let not get into a brawl.IA helicopters do not operate from IAF bases. They have their own heliports if you can call it that.Iaf instructors only for basics at AFA/Bidar/QFI SCHOOL.Army runs it own training set up at Nasik.Ref last weeks tele show of those foodies at Nasik !Even the ground crew are all army.Advisers?Cross attachments yes even Naval pilots fly with both the Army and Airforce fixed wing/rotors.Moreover, a heleport can be accomadated in a much smaller place than a full fledged airfield which will run into hundreds of acres!

BSF yes not CRPF. They have run into problems because as the airforce is not keen to depute pilots .They are now asking for volunteers from all Paramilitary setups to train as pilots.If you ask me all this leads to empire building.

By the way why that Punjab Regt badge?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Dont be rude! You would be surprised at my knowledge!Ask RAY.

What Rude? Its not me who see it that way

Don`t Worry abt Ray sir , I know he likes to get entertained.

IA helicopters do not operate from IAF bases. They have their own heliports if you can call it that.Iaf instructors only for basics at AFA/Bidar/QFI SCHOOL.Army runs it own training set up at Nasik.a heleport can be accomadated in a much smaller place than a full fledged airfield which will run into hundreds of acres!

IA & IAF helo operate from same bases, Now it a Army Infrastructure or IAF, Ever saw real Army Helipads or IAF`s over Opsec?

So, who said NO?, Army and Airforce use same Airbases if needed now its Helo or Aircraft the level of cooperation is greater than what Media suggest..

By the way why that Punjab Regt badge?

Coz it have Some thing Important to do with my Identity..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[ace009]

This might seem a naive question, can you please identify the different helos in this picture? I never can make out the one on ground.

 

[pmaitra]

This might seem a naive question, can you please identify the different helos in this picture? I never can make out the one on ground.

Flying: HAL built Cheetah; clone of the French Aérospatiale Alouette II.
On the ground: Soviet built Mil-24/35 'Krokodil' (NATO: 'Hind') helicopter for assault and troop transport.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[ace009]

So how does the ALH, LCH and the Hind compare?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

So how does the ALH, LCH and the Hind compare?

ALH is a transport so not related to LCH, But technically LCH is ALH modification..



LCH:

General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 15.8 m (51ft 8in)
• Rotor diameter: 13.3 m (43 ft 6 in)
• Height: 4.7 m (15 ft 4 in)
• Disc area: 138.9 m² (1472 ft²)
• Empty weight: 2550 kg (5621 lb)
• Loaded weight: 4000 kg (8818 lb)
• Useful load: 2950 kg (6503 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 5,700 kg (12125 lb)
• Powerplant: 2× HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft, 1000 kW[14] (1400 shp[15]) each

Performance

• Never exceed speed: 330 km/h (178 knots, 207 mph)
• Maximum speed: 275 km/h (148 knots, 171 mph)
• Cruise speed: 260 km/h (140 knots, 161 mph)
• Range: 700km (297 nm, 342 mi)
• Service ceiling: 6500 m (21,300 ft)
• Rate of climb: 12 m/s (2362 ft/min)
• Disc loading: 39.59 kg/m² (8.23 lb/ft²)
• Power/mass: 327 W/kg (0.198 hp/lb)

Armament

• Guns: M621 20 mm cannon on Nexter THL-20 turret
• Rockets: Unguided rockets
• Missiles: MBDA air-to-air missiles
  Air-to-surface missiles
  Anti-radiation missiles
  Helina ATGM(8)
• Bombs: Iron bombs
  cluster bomb units
  grenade launcher

MI-35HIND:

General characteristics

• Crew: 2-3: pilot, weapons system officer and technician (optional)
• Capacity: 8 troops or 4 stretchers
• Length: 17.5 m (57 ft 4 in)
• Rotor diameter: 17.3 m (56 ft 7 in)

• Wingspan: 6.5 m (21 ft 3 in)

• Height: 6.5 m (21 ft 3 in)
• Disc area: 235 m² (2,530 ft²)
• Empty weight: 8,500 kg (18,740 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 12,000 kg (26,500 lb)
• Powerplant: 2× Isotov TV3-117 turbines, 1,600 kW (2,200 hp) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 335 km/h (208 mph)
• Range: 450 km (280 miles)
• Service ceiling: 4,500 m (14,750 ft)

Armament
Internal guns

• flexible 12.7 mm Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B Gatling gun on most variants. Maximum of 1,470 rounds of ammunition.
• fixed twin-barrel GSh-30K on the Mi-24P. 750 rounds of ammunition.
• flexible twin-barrel GSh-23L on the Mi-24VP and Mi-24VM. 450 rounds of ammunition.
• PKT passenger compartment window mounted machine guns

External stores

• Total payload is 1,500 kg of external stores.
• Inner hardpoints can carry at least 500 kg
• Outer hardpoints can carry up to 250 kg
• Wing-tip pylons can only carry the 9M17 Phalanga (in the Mi-24A-D) or the 9K114 Shturm complex (in the Mi-24V-F).

Bomb-load

• Bombs within weight range (presumably ZAB, FAB, RBK, ODAB etc.), Up to 500 kg.
• MBD multiple ejector racks (presumably MBD-4 with 4xFAB-100)
• KGMU2V submunition/mine dispenser pods

Second-generation armament (Mi-24V, Mi-24P and most upgraded Mi-24D)

• UPK-23-250 gunpod carrying the GSh-23L
• B-8V20 a lightweight long tubed helicopter version of the S-8 rocket launcher
• 9K114 Shturm in pairs on the outer and wingtip pylons

LCH suit our needs better than MI-35.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[ALBY]

kunal sir can u please clarify your point....apart from comparatively better fuel efficieny and high verical range it can climb, what are
the other good aspects of our dhruv as compared to mi35? Iam agreeing that both of these are fine qualities as MI35s were useless in kargil war where it had to climb very high altitudes.....in these regions DHRUV would be a hit..but in plains and and NE areas if we have to mount an helibourne operation then MI35 would beat dhruv in such scenarios due to its high power ,speed and huge stock pile of arms and ammo plus the ability to carry SF personnel if necessary...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

kunal sir can u please clarify your point....apart from comparatively better fuel efficieny and high verical range it can climb, what are
the other good aspects of our dhruv as compared to mi35? Iam agreeing that both of these are fine qualities as MI35s were useless in kargil war where it had to climb very high altitudes.....in these regions DHRUV would be a hit..but in plains and and NE areas if we have to mount an helibourne operation then MI35 would beat dhruv in such scenarios due to its high power ,speed and huge stock pile of arms and ammo plus the ability to carry SF personnel if necessary...

@Alby,
ALH is a transport as i mentioned above, Its LCH which is better than MI-35, LCH light weight helps it to operate over high altitude places like Kargil and more, LCH is same as MI-35 regarding firepower, But LCH is more maneuverable at low altitude and hard to hit by AAA fire where MI-35 is big and not so maneuverable over low altitude, Yes indeed It can dispatch SF but not more than 8 personal, IA SF works in large, IA use Gunship specifically for surveillance and attack where transport use for troop transportation, While unloading troops by transporter, Gunship keep a close watch over the ongoing operation..

A good example how IA helo operation works..

Golden Pic: IAF-MI-25 Escorting MI-8 over Srilanka..

 

[ace009]

@Alby,
ALH is a transport as i mentioned above, Its LCH which is better than MI-35, LCH light weight helps it to operate over high altitude places like Kargil and more, LCH is same as MI-35 regarding firepower, But LCH is more maneuverable at low altitude and hard to hit by AAA fire where MI-35 is big and not so maneuverable over low altitude, Yes indeed It can dispatch SF but not more than 8 personal, IA SF works in large, IA use Gunship specifically for surveillance and attack where transport use for troop transportation, While unloading troops by transporter, Gunship keep a close watch over the ongoing operation..

I also see that the LCH has longer range and does not carry air to air missiles. Maybe those allow the LCH to operate in CAS.