Indian Army Artillery

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

It is NOT a New Gun

It is a NEW type of Ammunition which travels much far and hence is deadly

It can be fired from any 155 mm gun which can fire standard NATO ammunition
including our Bofors and Pakistani M 109 and M 198

sorry, my bad.

 

[apple]

Bottlenecks Clog Army’s Bid to Procure M777 Howitzers | idrw.org

In a similar vein, although a bit of an older story. Apologies if this is a repost.

Procurement Nadir: India's Murky, Messed-Up Howitzer Competitions
Feb 25, 2014 16:50 UTC by Defense Industry Daily staff


India manages to find a way to delay things again, even as China seizes its high-altitude territory.

Feb 25/14: M777. With elections looming, India's Ministry of Defence clears a whole series of defense projects: upgrades for 37 airbases, modernization of 5 ordnance depots, 4,000 hand-held thermal imagers for soldiers, 5,000 thermal imaging sights for tanks and infantry combat vehicles, 44,000 light-machine guns, 702 light armoured multi-purpose vehicles, and 250 RAFAEL Spice IIR/GPS guided smart bombs. The M777 isn't among them:

"The M-777 howitzer contract, which is a direct government-to-government deal under the US foreign military sales programme, has been hanging fire since January 2010. Due to the long delay, the American Defence Security Cooperation Agency has hiked the cost of the M-777 deal from the earlier $ 647 million to $885 million now. The Army wants these 155mm/39-calibre howitzers since they can be swiftly deployed in high-altitude areas in Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh by helicopters and aircraft to counter China."

China has been seizing Indian territory again in this high-altitude region, but apparently that isn't urgent enough to prompt action. Thermal imagers and light machine guns are useful, but they aren't going to change the situation anywhere.

Sources: Times of India, "Decision on four key defence deals put off".
_______________________________

India has marked over $4 billion worth of artillery projects to purchase several hundred new 155mm howitzers. They are intended to supplement India's dwindling artillery stocks, while out-ranging and out-shooting Pakistan's self-propelled M109 external link 155mm guns. It seemed simple enough, and in the main towed artillery competition, BAE Systems Bofors had been competing against systems from Israel's Soltam and Denel of South Africa.

Unfortunately, India's 2 towed howitzer competitions, and its 2 self-propelled artillery procurements, have mostly served as cautionary tales. If the stakes weren't so high, they'd qualify as farce. The simple process of buying off-the-shelf artillery guns has become a decades-long affair filled with legal drama, accusations of corruption, and multiple re-starts – but not one new gun. Competitions are declared, and canceled, again and again. One is on its 5th iteration. Another is on its 3rd. Meanwhile, India's stock of operational 155mm FH77 howitzers has dwindled to around 200, and their last successful artillery buy was over 2 decades ago. Is there an end in sight to any of these competitions? Or a potential winner?

___________________________

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is in prototype phase, Also unguided shell flying to +50kms cannot be archived from a 23 liter chamber, But 25 liter or above chamber design, The PHZ-2000 which being fielded is not a 23 liter, PzH 2000 howitzer which being used in SA may not have a 23liter chamber but 25liter, SAF known to operate 25liter chamber 155mm Guns, They already archive Shells of VLAP class to at range of 70kms ..

This is nothing new, And no bad or worse news for anyone ..

===========================
===========================

DRDO version of VLAP >>

@Kunal Biswas Sir

Some potentially bad news for India

Oto Melara, Diehl Test Fire New Guided 155mm munition | Defense News | defensenews.com

2 Even the unguided shell travels 52 KM and the guided shell has 80 KM range

 

[Twinblade]

[tweet]482890300197568512[/tweet]
[tweet]482893196549029888[/tweet]

 

[mikhail]

what is price of this artillery ?

I have read somewhere that the price of a Dhanush was around Rs. 11 crore(2012 price).Hence adjusting current inflation the price will be around Rs.14 crores..:ranger:

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

we should plan and get at least 1000 of these guns and place it along side of the chinese border

 

[Pulkit]

IA has a plan to have 414 of these... 1000 will be a huge number specially from the point of China...
The terrain of our border with CHina is such that we can anytime need to lift them move them from one location to another which due to the weight will be difficult that why IA was going for M777 lightweight....

though I do believe number can be increased to say 650 odd.... and be placed against Pakis is good numbers...

we should plan and get at least 1000 of these guns and place it along side of the chinese border

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If one notice there are some 550 nos of 130mm M46 exist in IA out of which 140 used for the Catapult self-propelled gun. If one subtract then the number matches with the number ordered for Dhanush which is 414 ..

Dhanush 155mm is targeted for replacing 130mm M46 guns which are now backbone of IA medium Guns ..

though I do believe number can be increased to say 650 odd.... and be placed against Pakis is good numbers...

we should plan and get at least 1000 of these guns and place it along side of the chinese border

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This is been for sometime in PARA forces, They have their own 105mm and ZU-23-2 which are slung under a MI-17 ..

[tweet]482890300197568512[/tweet]
[tweet]482893196549029888[/tweet]

 

[Pulkit]

Sir the inventory of our enemies is increasing ...
If we have a good product why not increase our inventory aswell...Why just replacement...
I agree with you that they are replacing them but thats not the requirement at the time...
We need to have strong reserves in case of loss in war... I mean surplus ... They are affordable ,home made and a great product...

On the contrary IA has said they needs large artillary...

just a question then whom was M777 supposed to replace....

If one notice there are some 550 nos of 130mm M46 exist in IA out of which 140 used for the Catapult self-propelled gun. If one subtract then the number matches with the number ordered for Dhanush which is 414 ..

Dhanush 155mm is targeted for replacing 130mm M46 guns which are now backbone of IA medium Guns ..

 

[Pulkit]

IA has a plan to have 414 of these... 1000 will be a huge number specially from the point of China...
The terrain of our border with CHina is such that we can anytime need to lift them move them from one location to another which due to the weight will be difficult that why IA was going for M777 lightweight....

though I do believe number can be increased to say 650 odd.... and be placed against Pakis is good numbers...

@Kunal Biswas


In the above statement we disagree on the number but the reason i have in mind is correct right????
Due to there weight the will be less effective in the China terrain in comparison to our Pak border.
and Is there any Public information regarding Kalyani Gun?tried finding some information on net but was unable to ....
Will it match M777 or full fill our requirement and at top of it will IA be satisfied with it as they wanted M777 which now appears to be difficult ...

 

[arnabmit]

M777 or Kayani 155x39 was supposed to replace the 105mm IFGs of mountain divisions.

The current Dhanush orders are to make-up for the Bofors guns that were cannibalized to maintain the rest.

 

[laughingbuddha]

Kalyani gun based on Canadian GC-45. Bought the Noricum assembly line and transported to India.

 

[arnabmit]

The Noricum 155x45 is made into the Bharat-52 155x52 gun by Bharat Forge.

The Bharat Forge ULH is different, which uses the Mandus Soft Recoil technology on a titanium gun carriage, with a 39 cal barrel created with Noricum technology. If delivered, its performance would be greater than M777, with 50%-70% greater carriage life.

Bharat Forge is also offering the Mandus Hawkeye 105mm LSV mounted "Garuda-105" gun for Mountain Strike Corps. It offers a range of upto 12Km, which covers the gap between the low range 120mm Mortars and low mobility 105mm IFG, with direct-fire anti-tank role upto 6km.

105mm Weapon System Test Firing - YouTube

Kalyani gun based on Canadian GC-45. Bought the Noricum assembly line and transported to India.

 

[Pulkit]

M777 or Kayani 155x39 was supposed to replace the 105mm IFGs of mountain divisions.

The current Dhanush orders are to make-up for the Bofors guns that were cannibalized to maintain the rest.

M777 or Kayani was for the new mountain troops raised... So it cannot just be a replacement ..
It was supposed to be an addition....
@arnabmit I dont think at Dhanush is replacement of bofors

Quoting quote 1908
"If one notice there are some 550 nos of 130mm M46 exist in IA out of which 140 used for the Catapult self-propelled gun. If one subtract then the number matches with the number ordered for Dhanush which is 414 ..
Dhanush 155mm is targeted for replacing 130mm M46 guns which are now backbone of IA medium Guns ..
"
@Kunal Biswas bhai is it possible that it is possible that it replaces bofors as well...


Is it replacing both?

Even If Dhanush replaces all the guns which falls under this category I will be happy but its not logical at all...lol.....

and here I repeat the a question I have already posted again..

Are we inducting news guns from the point of view of replacement only??

 

[arnabmit]

They are for replacement of cannibalized Bofors. The order later would be increased to 414 to replace the entire inventory of FH-77B bought in the 80's (410).

The M46 would be replaced either by the Bharat-52 or DRDO 155x52NG, or a combination of both, in thousands.

The M777 were for the existing Mountain Divisions, not for the newly raised Mountain Strike Corps.

M777 or Kayani was for the new mountain troops raised... So it cannot just be a replacement ..
It was supposed to be an addition....
@arnabmit I dont think at Dhanush is replacement of bofors

Quoting quote 1908
"If one notice there are some 550 nos of 130mm M46 exist in IA out of which 140 used for the Catapult self-propelled gun. If one subtract then the number matches with the number ordered for Dhanush which is 414 ..
Dhanush 155mm is targeted for replacing 130mm M46 guns which are now backbone of IA medium Guns ..
"
@Kunal Biswas bhai is it possible that it is possible that it replaces bofors as well...


Is it replacing both?

Even If Dhanush replaces all the guns which falls under this category I will be happy but its not logical at all...lol.....

and here I repeat the a question I have already posted again..

Are we inducting news guns from the point of view of replacement only??

 

[Pulkit]

They are for replacement of cannibalized Bofors. The order later would be increased to 414 to replace the entire inventory of FH-77B bought in the 80's (410).

The M46 would be replaced either by the Bharat-52 or DRDO 155x52NG, or a combination of both, in thousands.

The M777 were for the existing Mountain Divisions, not for the newly raised Mountain Strike Corps.

Kindly share your source or reference????

 

[arnabmit]

Kindly share your source or reference????

Read from multiple sources some time back. Will search and post links later.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

105mm IFG cannot be replaced by M777 or Kalyani 155x39mm Gun, 105mm is unique as its ultra compact and used over very small spaces where M777 cannot operate ..

Dhanush are supplementing Bofors guns, These older guns also get updated with newer 45cal barrels ..

M777 or Kayani 155x39 was supposed to replace the 105mm IFGs of mountain divisions.

The current Dhanush orders are to make-up for the Bofors guns that were cannibalized to maintain the rest.

 

[ladder]

105mm IFG cannot be replaced by M777 or Kalyani 155x39mm Gun, 105mm is unique as its ultra compact and used over very small spaces where M777 cannot operate ..

Dhanush are supplementing Bofors guns, These older guns also get updated with newer 45cal barrels ..

Any info on the up gunning of 130mm guns to 155/45 one?