Indian Army Artillery

[Kunal Biswas]

It is a 33 cal OFB gun by looking at it, Originally mandus group got a shorter barrel gun at expo and on the marketing youtube vid ..

@Kunal Biswas, Is this the same gun?

 

[Shaitan]

That is a longer barrel 105mm, Mounted on TATA`s 2.5toner truck

And that truck is in Army service ..

Interesting, that video is blocked in USA. If there is anything else interesting in there, take more screen shots and caption if you can.

 

[blueblood]

@Kunal Biswas, I think you are confused about the gun which is mounted. Could it be IFG or LFG?

Why would they turn a highly mobile heli portable gun into just another mounted gun, especially when 105mm shells are grossly inadequate?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That is what i meant, That is IFG`s barrel in 33 caliber ..

105mm IFG are extreamly better compare to Soviat D30s and Motars over mountain areas, A mobile system is better for shoot and scoot feature ..

The Kalyani prototype is way better than OFB prototype, The OFB prototype was designated for BSF ..

@Kunal Biswas, I think you are confused about the gun which is mounted. Could it be IFG or LFG?

Why would they turn a highly mobile heli portable gun into just another mounted gun, especially when 105mm shells are grossly inadequate?

 

[blueblood]

That is what i meant, That is IFG`s barrel in 33 caliber ..

105mm IFG are extreamly better compare to Soviat D30s and Motars over mountain areas, A mobile system is better for shoot and scoot feature ..

The Kalyani prototype is way better than OFB prototype, The OFB prototype was designated for BSF ..

You misunderstood. 105mm while better for mountains is an inadequate caliber. So, the only advantage 105mm provides is its mobility i.e. heli transportability in the inaccessible areas or quick deployment.

Hawkeye system is the lightest of its kind in the world.By mounting that gun on a 7 ton truck, they killed its unique capability when the same could be achieved by your random MGS like Caesar or Atmos 2000.

 

[The enlightened]

That is IFG`s barrel in 33 caliber ..

Simple maths show that it is 37 caliber.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is perhaps an inadequate caliber against harden fortifications, But apart from that it is good against all threads including Armour ..

One cannot maneuver an MGS like Ceaser or Atmos 2000 in narrow roads of mountain areas where roads are no wider ..

===============

My bad then ..

You misunderstood. 105mm while better for mountains is an inadequate caliber.

Simple maths show that it is 37 caliber.

 

[The enlightened]

105mm while better for mountains is an inadequate caliber.

What caliber are you looking for? L52 will probably make it weigh around the same as the 155mm M777. Ammo is lighter and smaller but still.

especially when 105mm shells are grossly inadequate?

Grossly inadequate for waht?

 

[Shaitan]

It could integrated on to something lighter, like a Humvee vehicle.

A modified TATA LSV could work.

 

[The enlightened]

Now that Denel is out of the black list, we seriously need to consider its G7 howitzer. Its 105mm L52 gives equivalent range as the M777 and it does some nasty damage too.

Trials have already shown that the 105 mm PFF has a greater lethal radius that the older US 155 mm M107 HE projectile but at the same time a 76% smaller danger area.

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1940.html

 

[blueblood]

It is perhaps an inadequate caliber against harden fortifications, But apart from that it is good against all threads including Armour ..

One cannot maneuver an MGS like Ceaser or Atmos 2000 in narrow roads of mountain areas where roads are no wider ..

===============

My bad then ..

CAESAR on a Stallion or Tatra should roughly give you similar mobility but trice the fire power and twice the range.

Hawkeye mounted on a Tata LSV or a similar platform should give you better ground mobility and heli portability.

What caliber are you looking for? L52 will probably make it weigh around the same as the 155mm M777. Ammo is lighter and smaller but still.

Grossly inadequate for waht?

Caliber = 105mm (diameter of the round)
Calibers = length of the barrel.

Inadequate for pretty much every thing. 105mm has about a third of the explosive power of a 155mm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_4569

There is a reason West is moving away from 105mm.

 

[Bhadra]

CAESAR on a Stallion or Tatra should roughly give you similar mobility but trice the fire power and twice the range.

Hawkeye mounted on a Tata LSV or a similar platform should give you better ground mobility and heli portability.



Caliber = 105mm (diameter of the round)
Calibers = length of the barrel.

Inadequate for pretty much every thing. 105mm has about a third of the explosive power of a 155mm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_4569

There is a reason West is moving away from 105mm.

Hah.. so there is something called calibers ??

Can you please give some reference or link ?
And calibre is measurement of barrel bore ?
In what way ?
Then what is landing and groves ?
Should educate us ...on DFI..

 

[blueblood]

Hah.. so there is something called calibers ??

Can you please give some reference or link ?
And calibre is measurement of barrel bore ?
In what way ?
Then what is landing and groves ?
Should educate us ...on DFI..

Seriously, now you jump in the between the conversation while you ran away from our last and the one before that. Why are you hell bent on ruining whatever "defence professional" image you have left and be humiliated by guys half your age.

Once we had a brilliant "defence professionals" like Brig Ray, Col OOE, Deltacamelately, Lemontree and now we have you. Now Indians and non Indians alike get to see what Indian Armed Forces officers look and behave like.

How low can this forum get?

This is the giant stinking deuce of a wisdom you dropped on a different thread. Lay off that CSD rum.

.303 Mark I/ III ROYAL Enfield RIFLE ... THE FIRST ASSAULT RIFLE OF OFB .. THE RIFLE OF 21 CENTURY..

HOW CAN ANY THING BE BETTER ??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Remember their is no us just you, I will educate you. ..

This is bofors 155mm/52cal gun, Specifications below :

Length of the barrel : 8.06 m (26 ft 5 in) L/52
52cal gun with ordinary ammo:19 km
52cal gun with Special ammo: 52-56,000 m (BB+RAP extended range)

================
================

This is bofors 155mm/45cal gun, Specifications below :

Length of the barrel : 6.95 meters L/45
45cal gun with ordinary ammo: 18 kms
45cal gun with Special ammo: 41,600 m (Extended range full-bore-base)


=================
=================

This is bofors 155mm/39cal gun, Specifications below :

Length of the barrel : 5.89 m (19 ft 4 in) L/39
39cal gun with ordinary ammo: 24 km
39cal gun with Special ammo: 30km


====================
====================
====================
====================

How to measure caliber :

From above :

155 x 45 = 6.95 meters long barrel
155 x 52 = 8.06 meters long barrel
155 x 39 = 6.04 meters long barrel

==============================================

Do you need more ..

Nice development but wanted to know how to it compares to the latest Bofors gun the Archer system..

Hah.. so there is something called calibers ??

Can you please give some reference or link ?
And calibre is measurement of barrel bore ?
In what way ?
Then what is landing and groves ?
Should educate us ...on DFI..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

West`s requirements are not same as ours, Let them if they need ..


Though they will bring it back when needed ..

There is a reason West is moving away from 105mm.

======================

Its not hard to do that, But to do such one need vision and will to put an requirement ..

More than just making new guns and issuing them, Upgrading existing gun with other form of upgrade is much more effective ..

This is a thread created by for such discussions, Read it you will find it interesting > http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/modernisation-for-indian-105mm-light-field-guns.52945/

Now that Denel is out of the black list, we seriously need to consider its G7 howitzer. Its 105mm L52 gives equivalent range as the M777 and it does some nasty damage too.

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1940.html

 

[The enlightened]

Caliber = 105mm (diameter of the round)
Calibers = length of the barrel.

Me stupid.

Inadequate for pretty much every thing. 105mm has about a third of the explosive power of a 155mm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_4569

There is a reason West is moving away from 105mm.

105mm is excellent for suppression fire and in Anti-Personnel roles. There can be specialized rounds for hardened targets.

They don't have to deal with Himalayan roads. We do.

 

[The enlightened]

And calibre is measurement of barrel bore ?
In what way ?
Then what is landing and groves ?
Should educate us ...on DFI..

1 caliber equals the bore width of the gun. Its not called calibers. That was just for emphasis.

Its not hard to do that, But to do such one need vision and will to put an requirement ..

More than just making new guns and issuing them, Upgrading existing gun with other form of upgrade is much more effective ..

This is a thread created by for such discussions, Read it you will find it interesting > http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/modernisation-for-indian-105mm-light-field-guns.52945/

More effective... maybe. But we aren't going to get the cutting edge performance of the new gun. BTW what is the firangi doing with this gun. Is this ours or not?

 

[blueblood]

West`s requirements are not same as ours, Let them if they need ..

105mm is excellent for suppression fire and in Anti-Personnel roles. There can be specialized rounds for hardened targets.

They don't have to deal with Himalayan roads. We do.

Okay, maybe I am not getting my points across effectively. Let me try again.

1) 105mm has limited capabilities because of it's range or lack there of and smaller HE content. By that I am not at all suggesting you to drop 105mm from inventory. On the contrary, I am rooting for a 105mm mounted on a light 4x4 and not a heavy truck.

There is an important reverse side to this coin, safe distances for own troops will be greater with 155mm than 105mm and this can be particularly significant when suppressive fire is being delivered to cover assaulting troops.

While bigger is better for damage and casualties, smaller is better for suppression.

The risks to own troops can be significantly reduced by using delayed action fuzes (providing the ground is suitable).

105mm is adequate for more traditional natures such as smoke and illuminating.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2014/07/105mm-155mm-something/

Interesting read.

2) While 105mm has it uses in India. One distinct capability ultra light systems like Hawkeye offer is heli transportability. A self propelled system which can be air dropped to remote inaccessible areas (Himalayas) should be much more advantageous to the army than a similar system which cannot do the same, i.e truck (~7 ton IIRC) mounted . Hope I was clear enough.

‘in peace the cry is for mobility, in war for weight of shell’

We are losing on both counts.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

what @blueblood said is quite right...... Light artillery can be useful in warfare for swift movements. So we should have some of them.
.
in third was of panipat , heavy artillery was one of the reason for defeat of marathas. Same reason for defeat of moghals in 27 year was with marathas

 

[The enlightened]

1) 105mm has limited capabilities because of it's range or lack there of and smaller HE content. By that I am not at all suggesting you to drop 105mm from inventory. On the contrary, I am rooting for a 105mm mounted on a light 4x4 and not a heavy truck.

Not all.
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006garm/tuesday/peck.pdf
Also http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...s-leo-leaps-forward-&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105

RDM also developed the Igala range of munitions for the LEO/LSPH. For this month's tests, the M0125A2 IHE PFF (Insensitive High Explosive Pre-Formed Fragmentation) projectile and the XM2019A2 Practice round were fired in both the BT (boat-tail) as well as the BB (base-bleed) configurations. With the BT configuration, a maximum range of 24 km was achieved, while BB has a maximum proven range of 30km at sea level. “At the Alkantpan Test Range (which is 1000m above sea level), ranges of about 25km and 33km respectively, were achieved.”

The M0125A2 IHE PFF projectile has a lethal area of 1600m2, “which is 66% larger than the typical lethal area of the 155mm M107 projectile”. The safety distance for the XM0125A2 IHE PFF projectile is typically 50% smaller than that of the M107, which makes the 105mm PFF projectile more suitable for close fire-support. The M0125A2 IHE PFF projectile achieved US Army Safety certification in September 2008 as part of the Foreign Comparative Test Programme sponsored by the US Department of Defence. “Once the M0125A2 was Safety Certified, it was given the US designation M1130 for the fixed base bleed projectile, and M1131 for the fixed boat tail projectile. Both the M1130 and M1131 projectiles are in the final stages of Type Classification, a process that has taken almost a decade.”

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2014/07/105mm-155mm-something/

Interesting read.

2) While 105mm has it uses in India. One distinct capability ultra light systems like Hawkeye offer is heli transportability. A self propelled system which can be air dropped to remote inaccessible areas (Himalayas) should be much more advantageous to the army than a similar system which cannot do the same, i.e truck (~7 ton IIRC) mounted . Hope I was clear enough.

We are losing on both counts.

Yes I've seen that, managed to google it before.

So whats the big deal? All artillery systems have greater air-mobility when towed. Should we abandon SPH's?